Suspect Opens Fire in Synogogue, Good Guy With Gun Shoots Back, stops assault

[Aim1]

Luckily the off-duty officer was there and armed to prevent probably dozen more casualties. The suspect had an AR15 apparently.

According to the article: “NBC San Diego reports that “an off-duty U.S. Border Patrol agent who was in the synagogue at the time of the shooting opened fire on the suspect, missing the man but striking his vehicle.”





https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...e-in-synogogue-good-guy-with-gun-shoots-back/

 

[Kaybee]

I read a couple articles and it sounds more that the shooter stopped on his own, maybe having a malfunction, and the agent took a shot at him as he was leaving in his getaway car. That’s fine but let’s keep the facts straight.

The shooter shot a little old lady and a young child.

I think a better ending would have been that they all turned around a lit him up with Travors when he walked in the door and relieved the country with one less wacko.

*edit* Tavor! Tar-21! I was just kidding, any gun would be fine. Just wish they were able to take out the shooter before he hurt anyone.

 

[jar]

I read a couple articles and it sounds more that the shooter stopped on his own, maybe having a malfunction, and the agent took a shot at him as he was leaving in his getaway car. That’s fine but let’s keep the facts straight.

The shooter shot a little old lady and a young child.

I think a better ending would have been that they all turned around a lit him up with Travors when he walked in the door and relieved the country with one less wacko.

Gotta ask. What is a "Travors"?

 

[rpenmanparker]

Gotta ask. What is a "Travors"?

Taser?

 

[rpenmanparker]

Don’t make the mistake of thinking the off-duty border patrol agent was a “good guy with a gun” or was just "luckily" there. According the the news report I have read, he was employed as a security guard at the synagogue. That is quite a different thing. Not better or worse, just different and worthy of getting right.

 

[bannockburn]

I think Kaybee was thinking of an IWI Tavor SAR.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Probably why you dont hear about anyone attacking a Mormon temple- they are generally armed to the teeth. Good for them.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Probably why you dont hear about anyone attacking a Mormon temple- they are generally armed to the teeth. Good for them.

I don't think so. Almost all synagogues are protected by paid, armed guards. But people’s hatred overcomes their common sense and they attack them anyway. One of the peculiar truths about modern America is that almost everyone who knows Mormons loves and respects them. Not so for Jews.

 

[Texas10mm]

Probably why you dont hear about anyone attacking a Mormon temple- they are generally armed to the teeth. Good for them.

Really? I was raised in the LDS church, I've been to several Temples, and my father and I were the only two LDS members I know who carried. You're making a generalization there.

 

[jmorris]

The first time I went to a synagogue I thought the level of security for a place of worship seemed odd.

These days it makes much more sense.

The tiny church closest to me always has someone in the parking lot during service.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Really? I was raised in the LDS church, I've been to several Temples, and my father and I were the only two LDS members I know who carried. You're making a generalization there.

Point taken, Im only going off of what Ive read, no first hand experience. As an outsider, however, that is the reputation the Mormons seem to have, so there is some deterrent there if a potential attacker has the same impression. Not a bad thing, IMO.

I cant recall any Mormon temples being attacked, that could be a contributing factor- there are others too, Im sure.

 

[Aim1]

Don’t make the mistake of thinking the off-duty border patrol agent was a “good guy with a gun” or was just "luckily" there. According the the news report I have read, he was employed as a security guard at the synagogue. That is quite a different thing. Not better or worse, just different and worthy of getting right.

We’ll find out I guess. The facts are still coming out.





https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2019/04/27/exclusive-poway-synagogue-shooting/

 

[Labguy47]

I was hoping that a 100 uzi or Jericho 941s lit him up.....

 

[jeepnik]

Might he not have been both parishioner and paid security? My church has paid alarm service. Break ins and vandalism while not common have occurred

Security at services is by unofficial (the church won’t have either paid security or acknowledge the (volunteers for fear of liability concerns.

This hasn’t stopped a very well organized group of armed parishioners, including several LEO’s from doing what they can.

 

[Speedo66]

Several states outright prohibit carrying weapons in houses of worship, others permit it only with the explicit consent of the church leadership.

Hopefully everyone here is aware of the laws in their state.

 

[MedWheeler]

I'm hearing also that the BP agent was not initially armed. In at least one report I've heard, he "retrieved" a hidden firearm and gave chase. The Breitbart source referenced above would have him "retrieving" it from the armed synagogue member. That member himself may or may not have been carrying it lawfully (carry permits are not easy to come by there, and he may not have wanted to have been caught with it.) Another report I heard that the firearm may have been stowed within the facility for this very purpose, retrieved by the congregant, then passed by him to someone he felt was more qualified with it, may be true, or may be to shield the congregant, supporting the idea that his having had the gun in the first place wasn't lawful.

As was also pointed out, the shooter was not fired on or threatened until his attack ended, outside and already attempting his escape.

Yes, the facts are still coming in...

 

[GEM]

He was a security guard. While the exact events are still unclear, it is reported that the guy's AR jammed, he ran out and the Border Patrol Guard shot at his vehicle.

Since he was a guard, the good guy with a gun argument has a flaw. An antigunner will say, that it is ok for trained folks to have guns and be licensed by the state with mandatory extensive training. The average CHL, CCW guy isn't up to that standard. This is debatable and for another thread.

Now, I am all in favor of getting training. One of the local churches is pastored by a dedicated IDPA shooter and parts of his security team shoot with us and are good friends.

Anyway, the good guy with a gun cliche is mixed in application. The Sutherland incident is a better example.

 

[ancientnoob]

Probably why you dont hear about anyone attacking a Mormon temple- they are generally armed to the teeth. Good for them.

Yea no one wants to be hit with 250 rnds of .22 mag from the those NAA mini revolvers. I apologize in advance a good joke made in bad taste.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Yea no one wants to be hit with 250 rnds of .22 mag from the those NAA mini revolvers. I apologize in advance a good joke made in bad taste.

?

 

[old lady new shooter]

Don’t make the mistake of thinking the off-duty border patrol agent was a “good guy with a gun” or was just "luckily" there. According the the news report I have read, he was employed as a security guard at the synagogue. That is quite a different thing. Not better or worse, just different and worthy of getting right.

If he was employed as a security guard he should have acted way sooner, while the @#$% was inside shooting people.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Interview with the rabbi, who was speaking from his hospital bed:
https://www.today.com/video/rabbi-i...agogue-shooting-i-m-heartbroken-1510946883942

 

[Double Naught Spy]

If he was employed as a security guard he should have acted way sooner, while the @#$% was inside shooting people.

Unarmed security guard? What exactly did you want him to do way sooner against an "AR15 type weapon"? Just curious. If the border patrol agent was there as a security guard, then you have to wonder why he was there in an unarmed capacity.

Maybe a better question is why the parishioner, who was armed, didn't do anything way sooner? He came armed to the synagogue for the express purpose of defense should something go wrong and yet all he did was give the gun away. I know what the Breitbart article says, but it would seem that by the time that he gave the guard his gun, it was a matter of pursuing the escaping shooter.

Now, Chabad of Poway isn't a tiny building. It is roughly triangular and 200 ft or so on a side, plus outdoor areas. If the guard or armed worshiper wasn't in the immediate area of the shooter, the shooter could very easily have had enough time to fire several shots, his gun jam, and attempt to flee before people in other parts of the building could comprehend the situation, find the shooter, and engage. Even the rabbi, as is common with such events, did not immediately comprehend what was going on when the first shot(s) were fired, until coming face to face with the gunman.

So we have reported that a good guy with a gun was at the synagogue for the purpose of defense that did NOT engage the shooter, instead handing off his gun to somebody else. Interesting development on the good guy with a gun concept.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Very interestingly, the MSM are not reporting the events at all accurately.

The border patrol guy is not a security guard, but rather a congregant. Another congregant who is a combat veteran basically rushed the shooter, interrupting his loop, which appears to be what caused him to leave the premises. This other congregant was still engaged with the shooter when the border patrol guy emerged from the building with a revolver that had been stored on the premises for such a situation. He yelled at the combat veteran to get out of the way, then shot the shooter's car. There is an interview with the combat vet at the top of this article: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...g-donald-trump-call-comfort-rabbi/3613078002/

Here is an account by a member on ar15.com who is a congregant at that synagogue and whose family is very close with the deceased woman's family. The thread over there (https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Shooting-at-synagogue-in-Poway-CA/5-2215936/) is about 15 pages, which contains several interesting points in between numerous posts of other members expressing condolences, but here is what he wrote on page 11 of it:

"This congregation is armed.

"Lori’s husband had a wheel gun hidden safely in a cabinet. Only a few congregants knew about it. The Rabbi is also armed.

"The perp parked out front, walked in the open front door. Shots were fired immediately, I’m not sure exactly who was hit first. The Rabbi had a few fingers shot off. Lori took one shot to the abdomen and died instantly.

"When husband heard the commotion, he retrieved the wheel gun and tossed it to the BP guy who was praying. There was another ex-military congregant accosted the perp, screaming at folks to get down. The perp panicked and ran to his car. The BP fired several shots into the car, blowing out the back window and possibly hitting a tire. The perp surrendered to local LA a mile down the road.

"The perp had multiple mags. A huge massacre was prevented by the presence of that wheel gun."

 

[jar]

I think Kaybee was thinking of an IWI Tavor SAR.

Thanks.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

There are a lot of odd generalizations being made here. I'm not really sure why.

My initial reaction was "He shot at the suspect while the suspect was trying to leave? Seems risky." But as an LEO, I suppose he went into "apprehend or stop the threat" mode.