Tactical Shotgun: Benelli M4 or Saiga-12?

[spyder1969]

Benelli by far, but an Rem 870 or Mossberg for less money will out do a Saiga 12ga anyday.

 

[Dobe]

Balrog,the Benellis,either the inertia(M1/2) or gas(M4) do not function reliably with the low recoil or so called tactical loads.Cheap wally world promo loads run fine in both my M1S90 and M4S90.I find the Sellier&Bellot OO loads recoil less than most American full power OO loads but cycle fine in both my Benellis.
Also,the interia Benellis do not like alot of crap hung on them.Things like side saddles,flashlights,lasers,etc "may" affect reliability.YMMV.

The low recoil loads were designed for pump/slide action shotguns,not semi-autos.These loads will not function reliably in my 11-87P as well.

You want full power loads in buck,slug and shot.

I just put a box of low brass 8 shot through my M2 about 2 hours ago. It ran just fine. And you can put side saddles, and anything else on an M2, as long as you don't hang it from the barrel.

 

[Girodin]

Benelli by far, but an Rem 870 or Mossberg for less money will out do a Saiga 12ga anyday.

Out do it at what and in what ways? I have two 870s (both wingmasters) and for 3 gun or a fighting gun prefer one of my S12s.

 

[Balrog]

I just put a box of low brass 8 shot through my M2 about 2 hours ago. It ran just fine.

Mine won't do that.

 

[Dobe]

I must confess, the M2 I have is my first Benelli. I did a lot of research before I picked mine up. One of the advantages that I found from my reasearch was that the inertia system will allow you to use a variety of loads.

Yesterday, I shot a box of low brass 8's and a box of high brass 4's ( ammo I had laying around for years). I even mixed the loads; all shot well with no problems at all.

 

[Balrog]

Yesterday, I shot a box of low brass 8's and a box of high brass 4's ( ammo I had laying around for years). I even mixed the loads; all shot well with no problems at all.

Have you tried any of the reduced tactial buckshot loads, such as Hornady TAP or Speer Lawman? These will not cycle in my M2. It will cycle the Federal personal defense buckshot, as well as Winchester Ranger, but I can tell the action moves slower, and although I have had no problems feeding the Federal and Winchester, I get the feeling from the way the action cycles that I would not want them in my gun if it was a real situation.

So right now I am sticking with standard Remington and Winchester 00 Buckshot. They cycle the action vigorously and 100 percent.

 

[Dobe]

No, I've not tried reduced tactical loads, but I'll pick some up, and give it a try. Yesterday is the first time I had ever shot a Benelli, so I don't want to come off as "expert" on Benellis.

I do like the M2, and I hope to take a tactical class using it.

 

[spyder1969]

pump is always more reliable than semi auto. I can buy an 870 new which will function flawlessly, without having to invest an extra $100 to improve its function. Until then, S12 is not reliable.

 

[Dobe]

pump is always more reliable than semi auto.

Not really. That is like comparing a revolver to an auto. There is always the chance of short shucking a pump. Pumps are more difficult to operate in many shootng position also.

It's what ever you want and feel best with, but don't short change the modern autos. They are very reliable.

 

[Girodin]

Until then, S12 is not reliable.

How many S12s have you owned? I've owned about seven of them. The ones I have are highly reliable and have been such from shot one. Also I know of no S12s that do not run great with Slugs or buck. Where people have issues, if they do (I have not), it is shooting really light loads of bird shot. One would not be using really light loads of bird shot for defensive use. I'd take any number of weapons over a shotgun with a 7/8 oz load of #8. Thus issues of cycle light loads of small shot are moot for discussions of defense use. Keeping your gun stocked with ammo you tested in you gun is elementary. This is true for a pump too, because one is surely going to pattern any HD rounds he or she plans to use.

Also, as to reliability almost anyone that sees a lot of shotgun use in the realms that best simulate defensive use, 3 gun and training courses, will tell you they see people have more issues with their pumps than semis. Crank up the stress level, add adrenalin, make the shooter move, use cover, or fire from awkward improvised shooting positions and you get a new perspective on semi vs pump reliability. I have pumps and like using them but those that carry on about pumps being more reliable generally are either willfully ignoring the human element or speaking from lack of exposure to this type of shooting.

An 870 is much cheaper than a Saiga, or a Benelli or a number of other guns. A thousand dollars difference is not a factor for me in choosing my HD guns. I buy what I find to be useful. If money is tight a pump gun is a good choice; I own pumps too (Both of the ones you suggested in fact). If the argument is cheaper then sure the 870 wins or Mossy 500 wins. If it is a gun that is more ready to be run out of the box, I'd tend to agree as well. If it is still that the 870 blows away the saiga at other things I'm still left asking what those are.