Tactical start with drawstroke?

[arizonaguide]

Should I get a couple hours of private school instruction just on drawstroke to start Tactical Pistol training?

I'm a complete "tactical" pistol novice. I want to start with the 100% proper drawstroke, and need the proper instruction to do that correctly. Still deciding on carry technique/holster, and I guess I need that figured out first, correct? I want to learn the correct Plainclothes/CCW drawstroke, with my own weapon(s).
(2 pistols, KAHR P45, and S&W442)

I want to get educated, but $$ Funds are limited.

It's time to start the proper "training" and I'm wondering if introductory IDPA is a good starting point, or a school (or both).
From hunting with a handgun (small game) I do have solid handgun handling skills but have never been exposed to SD/tactical shooting. And Arizona ain't getting any safer! I worry about my wife and myself.

So, where's the best (for the $$) initial training in proper muscle memory? Introductory level Defensive Pistol at IDPA? Or start with a good Tactical school ($1385+ but worth it!)? Or would I be okay with a couple hours of private school instruction just on drawstroke to start practicing?

 

[James T Thomas]

Preliminary Drawstroke 101

A good preparation before schooling and practice would be

No Second Place Winner. Bill Jordan.

He gives very concise description, illustrations, and had the experience on the drawstroke. And, boy, could he do it too.

 

[arizonaguide]

Thank you JTT! Good idea. Been reading a lot of M Ayoob stuff also, but didn't want to instill my own bad habits (without instruction). But maybe I'm worrying to much about that?
There's also some good video I could try to mimic...but unsure if that's a good idea either.
Gotta start somewhere, I guess.

 

[James T Thomas]

Right the first time

The reason I think Jordan is such a good source is because of his experience.
He had more in his lifetime than dozens of law enforcement officers combined.

I've not read Mr. Ayoob's books, but of course, he is an experienced man also.

Jordan's concept is with circular motion, which coincides with almost every martial fist art that I am familiar with or have known of.
That concept makes it a reflexive activity which would be what you want -I think.

My own little experience is this. If, in beginning, you train with those "bad" habits, even unaware of them, and then have to re-train to eliminate them, it will be most difficult to clear them from your subconscious mind completely.
Make sure the video you will be mimicing is what you want to have ingrained in your memory beforehand.
It is something to be concerned over.

Therefor, you will be better off beginning, even slow and plodding; making sure you are doing it correct and without error. The speed will come by itself.
In fact, slow motion practice, though it seems unbeneficial when you are doing it is a recommended discipline for the mind that somehow impresses the correct motions inside there.

 

[Justin]

It's extremely easy to ingrain bad habits on the draw stroke. Best to find some decent instruction and get the technique down, then practice for speed.

 

[arizonaguide]

Yup! I'm thinking of just a couple hours of private school instruction just on (slow motion) drawstroke, to start practicing?
Good idea?

Does that sound like the very BEST way to start tactical pistol training?

 

[Justin]

The other option would be to frequent some of the serious competitive shooting forums, like Brian Enos. A lot of competitors there post videos of themselves executing reloads, draws, etc. for critique and discussion. Watching even a video of a properly executed draw stroke can help a bunch, too.

The biggest thing is to keep your shoulders level.

 

[Hk Dan]

I am a USPSA and IDPA devotee. Love it! But it's NOT "Training", it's "Practice" (at best). Do NOT depend on either sport to save your life, get professional instruction. Pick up a book if nothing else (Pincus and Suarez get my vote)

Dan

 

[arizonaguide]

It sounds like I'm on the right track.
Perhaps a couple hours private (slow motion) instruction, then dry fire practice practice practice and save $$$ for more.
Meanwhile get into a little IDPA for practice.

Now to get the proper holster setup!
I've got some vids on drawstroke, but I'm afraid to watch them to start with, because I'm worried about instilling my own "bad habits". I guess a person has to start with what they can afford, and starting is better than waiting until I'm rich! Just have to find the best instructor for that FIRST couple hours!

Okay, time to find a small back waistband holster of some kind.
I'm thinking strong side waistband back right hip. Arizona heat sucks for concealed carry.
This will be for concealed carry for a small KAHR P45, and I don't like the front carry position near Stanley and the boys, so I'm thinking back right waistband area.

It's all new to me. I grew up in Alaska, and have plenty of good pistol handling skills, but the "tactical" side of pistolcraft is ALL new to me. And, Arizona is getting plenty dangerous.

 

[James T Thomas]

Preemptions

I thought I had contributed all I could to you on this subject, but went back to the forum today and it occurs to me after reading your most recent post and comments about AZ.

-That no matter how quick you become on your draw, nothing will beat awareness of the surroundings and situation for you to keep yourself out of harms way. I know that is obvious, but here is why I go over that.

If, you are surprized by an attacker; you don't see it coming. If you are ambushed. If you become emplaced in some situation where your options are limited as to extract yourself or what defensive action you can take.

Then, it is likely, that the rapid drawing of your weapon will be to no avail.

You mentioned "tactical."
You do understand that tactics also include choosing where you walk on the street, sit at the restaurant, surveying the parking lot before hand, and those passive kinds of activities don't you?
And it is something that no expensive school can teach. Perhaps there are a few that give instructions on this, but it is the practice of it day to day, where you "learn" it. That is where the effort for you should be.
Please forget those who will criticize that as fearful or "Ninja."
What is the old expression?
An ounce of prevention...

The thing to remember, is that a blinding speed draw, is the thing done when all else has gone wrong, and you find yourself desperate as what to do.

Your activity prior to having to draw will determine the outcome.

 

[arizonaguide]

Well written JTT! (thanks!)
All of that is pretty well second nature to me.
Having grown up outdoors, being ex-military, and having worked unarmed (pepper spray) hospital security here in one of the highest crimes areas of Phoenix, I understand what you are getting at.

That's why the question.
I have some fear that the security job could "follow me home" (so-to-speak). I'm very much concerned with my wife's personal security and it is time to take the training seriously.
I am not looking to get instruction in the "quick draw" as the answer to all tactical problems.
In fact I want SLOW MOTION instruction.

Bottom line: The lack of funds limit the ability to just go to Gunsite for the 250 class ($1500+), so I have to look at some other possibilities.

So, I'm open to suggestions about good instructors to start me out with 2 hours of basic "drawing from concealment" drawstroke 101.* I am comfortable with handgun hunting, and have decent handling/shooting skills with a pistol, just NO real tactical experience drawing from concealment. Anyone know a good tactical instructor in PHX area?

Perhaps I should just take the "armed guard" class ($250/16hrs) even though I'm "unarmed" security. I should check and see if that's even available.

*I feel it is very important to start the training of the difficult task of drawing/presentation with the best instruction I can afford!
I just can't afford the whole $1500 class for awhile, and still want to get started on correct muscle memory training somehow. Correct dry fire drills...from concealment.

 

[arizonaguide]

Justin, just a quick "thank you" for the excellent Brian Enos forum recomendation!

It has been an outstanding source of information, and a great group of folks!

 

[Mello]

"The Modern Technique of the Pistol"
by Gregory B. Morrison, Jeff Cooper

This book will not be sufficient to train you. It does cover a lot of ground. It is sort of a course manual for the American Pistol Institute's basic pistol course.

It describes the combat mindset or situational awareness. It describes the presentation of the weapon. It describes various tactical considerations. It has many useful illustrations.

 

[SirDarksoul]

I don't know anything about the SO regulations in Arizona, but here in Tennessee you can take the armed guard class thru most any school/gun shop even if your company doesn't offer it to you. Passing the armed class also fulfills the requirements of the Handgun Carry Permit, tho you have to pay a separate fee for the permit. Guard licensing is thru the Dept of Insurance and Commerce and the Handgun Permit is thru the Dept of Safety, both want their separate fees.