Taurus 45 throats

[longspurr]

I just picked up a Taurus 45 ACP revolver- model 455 and started shooting it. 45 ball worked ok but when I tried WW 45 hollow points I ran into trouble. It seems some of the rounds would seat fully and others have about 1/8 “ sticking out. As I played with my dial chrono looking for the reason it dawned on me to check the cylinder throat diameter. I’m measuring .442†on all cylinders. My Ruger blackhawk measures .449 and from posts on the Ruger forum this is right in the ballpark so I believe my measurement.

The Ruger forum suggests getting a reamer from Brownells and increasing the throat to .452†on the Blackhawks.

My questions:
Would others please measure their Taurus 45 revolver throats so I can get an idea if what I have is common for Taurus. If I try to exchange this gun and the .442 throat is common then I am wasting my time & the dealer’s good will.

If I send it for repair has anyone done this with success? What size throats did you end up with?

If I do the ream Job myself I will void the warranty if there is any question raised. By removing approx. .01 of steel from the throats I think the pressure should go down. Right? Measuring with the dial chrono I’m not getting good measurements of the cylinder wall thickness but it is in the range of .070 - .072 at the throat and .056 - .062 over the cartridge portion of the cylinder. Not exactly confidence inspiring thickness’ when you look at the barrel wall thickness.

Thanks

 

[Old Fuff]

If the chamber throats are really .442" they are way undersized. They should be .452"/ + .0015". As a quick check obtain a .452" bullet, of the kind used by handloaders. Drop it into each chamber and push it through the throat using the erraser end of an ordinary lead pencil. If it won't go easily the revolver should be returned to Taurus for correction. You could do the work yourself, but you'll find that the equipment is expensive. Besides, why should you have to fix the factory's mistake?

 

[longspurr]

old fluff

Yes I've done that, a Rem JHP & Winchester FMJ only insert < 1/3 of the way into the throat. That is why > than 50% of Winchester loaded jhp rounds will not fully seat in the chambers. I hear what you say about "just send it back" but will that do anything for me??

My questions:
Would others please measure their Taurus 45 revolver throats so I can get an idea if what I have is common for Taurus. If I try to exchange this gun and the .442 throat is common then I am wasting my time & the dealer’s good will.

If I send it for repair has anyone done this with success? What size throats did you end up with?

 

[Old Fuff]

I don't have a .45 ACP Taurus handy, but I might be able to measure one next week.

I am pretty sure Taurus will fix any .45 revolvers with .442 throats by either finish-reaming the chambers, or replacing the cylinder. If nothing else I would give their Customer Service Department a phone call and ask questions. It may be that a number of guns went out with bad cylinders, and they already know about it.

 

[longspurr]

My original ??!!## was after loading the moon clips with some Winchester 230 JHP Q4243 ammo and not being able to close the cylinder. Since this is a new gun that I just exchanged for a poorly functioning one I assumed this gun also had a problem of some sort.

I went back now and started checking other ammo. Ball ammo worked fine. A box of Fed 165 jhp’s work fine. The first box of Winchester has 13 of the 20 that don’t fit fully into the cylinder. A second box has 8 out of 20 that don’t fit fully.

Measuring found the OAL of the “bad†ammo is 1.21 to 1.214. Checking the bullet diameter just above the case I found .448 - .449â€

Measuring “good†ammo OAL is 1.209 to 1.21. Bullet diameter .448

Winchester ball that works fine is OAL 1.266. Bullet diameter .445-.446

The “bad†ammo drops into a Ruger Convertible cylinder. At this point I don’t think I can point a finger at the ammo OR the gun and say it is bad. I think this is just a case of manufacturing tolerances that combined make a problem. Especially for this gun –CCW use- I will just have to be careful & check ammo before I load it up and expect reliability.

If someone made a gun like this - 45 ACP snubby that uses moon clips- within 150% of the price I paid for this I might be interested. As far as I know Taurus has this little nitch all to itself.

Range results; At 15’ eight of ten rounds were one big hole. At 50 ft. 5 shots went into about 3â€. Not too bad for a shorty.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well if .448" bullets are seating O. K. you don't have .442" throats.

You are doing a good job of checking things out, but now see how the cartridges cases compare by measuring the case diameter just back of the neck. It is possible that the chambers are slightly tapered, and the Winchester cases are bulged. The best way to detect this would be with a .45 ACP headspace gauge - which I suspect You don't have. Tight chambers in these guns aren't common I'm sure, because if they were we'd be hearing more about it. A local gunstore has sold several, with no complaints.

I think if you returned it to Taurus they'd probably check it with a headspace gage, and then likely ream the chambers with a finishing reamer just to be sure. If this was the case the job would likely take somewhere around 20 minutes to a half-hour. Agravating I know, but that would end your problems. At this point I think the ammunition is more to blame in this particular gun. The Ruger you mentioned might have larger chambers.

I don't have one of the .45's, but I do have a similar one in .44 Special, and it is one of my favorite carry pieces.

 

[BluesBear]

.442"?¿?!

Man, you're accuracy has got to stink. Can you hit the broad side of a barn with this gun?

The Ruger Blackhaws are notorious for having vastly UNDERSIZED cylinder throats. And your Taurus is smaller than that?!

Send it back to Taurus. On a gun this small I'd consider it unsafe to shoot.
Your chamber pessure has got to be higher than normal.
Do NOT attempt to shoot any +P ammo in it.
I, personally, would not shoot ANYTHING in it until it was fixed.

But that's just my opinion. They're your fingers.

 

[unspellable]

Returning to Taurus?

Taurus is at present not enjoying the best possible reputation on their service. before shipping it back I would want a definitive answer as to whether the chambers or the ammo is wrong. You want some real serious measurements before decidining anything.

I have some examples of factory loads that are oversized, although not in 45 ACP, but I'd think the factory could screw up one caliber as readily as another. You might ask around and see if a local smith has a set of go no go chmaber gauges.

You might also look up the SAAMI specs for tolerances on the chamber and cartridge.

 

[Old Fuff]

While I don't currently own a Taurus .45 ACP snubby, a local gunshop does have one in stock, and kindly let me examine it.

It was stainless steel and unported, serial number XB1792xx

Chamber throats measured between .448 to .450 with a caliper. I didn't slug them which would have been a better way to determine throat diameter.

The chambers at the back measured .478 on average, again measured with a caliper.

The following cartridges chambered without problems (my selection was limited to what was handy and available.).

Cor-Bon 200gr. JHP
Magtech 230gr. Ball
Wolf (Steel Case) 230gr. Ball

 

[longspurr]

Old Fluff
The best way to detect this would be with a .45 ACP headspace gauge - which I suspect you don't have.
Chamber throats measured between .448 to .450 with a caliper. I didn't slug them which would have been a better way to determine throat diameter.
The chambers at the back measured .478 on average, again measured with a caliper.

I think you have an excellent Idea, I have forgotten about go-no go gauges, I think of rifles when I think of headspace gauges. I also forgot to post that I hammered a 230 lead bullet through a cylinder throat. I measured it as .450 with the calipers. I have decided that my ability to use a caliper to measure inside a cylinder is POOR indeed. I checked the back of the chambers & came up with .475-.476 but in light of my earlier mistake I am not taking that seriously. As I said in the previous post it could be that the gun and ammo are both in spec. – But tight chambers & large ammo doesn’t quite work.

I checked 2 different ball ammo lots & one other JHP that fit fine.
I think I now know enough to ask a local gunsmith to check out this gun’ chambers.

Unspellable
Before shipping it back I would want a definitive answer as to whether the chambers or the ammo is wrong. You want some real serious measurements before deceiving anything.

I agree!!
I started this thread hoping to get some ideas to check before pointing fingers. If I had just sent it off for repair and they said, “no problem found†I would have been PO’ed when really the ammo was the problem.

Reading the new American Rifleman it occurred to me that I could probably use 45 Gap ammo with the moon clips! 45 ACP for practice and 45 gap JHP for CCW????

 

[Old Fuff]

>> Reading the new American Rifleman it occurred to me that I could probably use 45 Gap ammo with the moon clips! 45 ACP for practice and 45 gap JHP for CCW???? <<

You could, but I wouldn't. I see no advantage. Simple check the ammunition you carry, before you carry it. I always do so because over the years I've found factory ammunition that for whatever reason wouldn't chamber in a particular gun. It appears to me that one brand of 230 grain ball is causing most of the trouble. I would determine what brands and/or bullet weights work and use them exclusively for serious work.

Your next task should be to determine what shoots best to the point-of-aim.

 

[BluesBear]

Don't forget that ALL current production .45GAP ammo is loaded to .45acp+P pressures.

This could cause accelerated wear. Also, so far I haven't seen any .45GAP ammo that wasn't priced for MORE than .45acp.
So since there is no savings and with the possibility of increased wear, I see no reason to use .45GAP in a Taurus.

If the gun is going to endure +P pressures it should at least achieve +P performance.

 

[unspellable]

45 Gap?

I have not looked at the advertised numbers for the 45 GAP but my understanding is that it is intended to duplicate 45 ACP performance from a shorter case with higher pressures. If so, there is nothing to gain by using it in a 45 ACP revolver.