Taurus Revolver Stigma

[clem]

Yes, and S&W is to art as is Andres Serrano.

Ever wonder why the S&W fan-boys always recommend "earlier versions"? Perhaps it's because, over the past 20 years, the usual QC versions have been weeded out? I can remember, back in the 1970's and 80's, the dire warnings about S&W and their "Model of the week" and the Terrible QC accompanying the products. Today's younger crowd of Internet Experts routinely recommend guns from this period. Truly, "one man's treasure is another man's trash" applies much more to S&W than the fan-boys and Internet Commandos think.

I use my guns to teach with, and have for decades. The last thing that I want is to hand someone a gun that isn't going to work. I use Taurus, Sig, HK, Ruger, and the occasional, well-vetted, S&W/ I have a number of them, but the last two I purchased new have had to quickly be returned for lock-work failures. That is, too me, an example of poor QC. Worse, I check ALL guns that I buy for obvious problems BEFORE I pay for them. I'm not silly enough to walk out of a store with poorly machined charge-holes in a gun, or an out of time revolver. I also make sure that sights are correctly aligned, and so on. I can tell you that S&W is as prone to stupid assembly mistakes as anyone, even Jimenez.

Nobody, even HK and Sig, is today capable of 100% QC. Unless, and until, a person takes the total number of guns imported by Taurus in a single year, and the number of guns sent for repair, can you come up with any factual information. Even then, they would need to compare it to several other gun-makers to even approach an idea of what is normal.

Until then, we have traveling bashers like clem, who identified a Taurus Model 94 as a Model 941. That particular photo had already made the rounds months ago, attached to a different tale of woe. The Model 94 has NINE charge holes, and is a .22 long rifle. The Model 941 he identified, is a .22 WMR, and has B]EIGHT[/B] charge-holes. As an owner, he should, at the least, know what he bought. I would also question the proficiency of someone who would fail to check the gun over prior to buying, as he most obviously didn't. It's like buying a new car with bad paint, and then blaming the manufacturer for the mistake.

It's people like this, who manufacture "evidence" to support their infantile claims, that are trying to build evidence. Fortunately, they are rarely competent enough to actually fool too many people.

Your right! I have the wrong picture! It is a .22lr, I'll try and get up a picture of the right revolver.
Sorry folks!

 

[76shuvlinoff]

...and sometimes you come across a neglected crusty orphan with an unknown round count that needs a little homegrown TLC. The next thing you know you've made over 300 .38 holes in paper and can't pry the damn thing out of your wife's hand. It's a Taurus so you convince her she needs a new Ruger.... and the Ruger trigger is so heavy it sits waiting on a spring kit.......Well, maybe I got me a new Ruger

82

 

[tomrkba]

I think Ruger is the current top revolver brand. Colt would be my first choice, but they're no longer in the double action revolver business. I only wish Ruger would make a mid sized revolver with three inch barrel, night sights, cut for moon clips and had chamfered chambers. I also think they should incorporate the features of the Super Redhawk (which combines the best features of the GP100 and Redhawk) into their SP101 and GP100 lines. "SP201" and "GP200" lines with a variety of barrels and calibers would be great.

S&W would be near Colt, but the poorly designed lock and current quality issues keep me from buying their new guns. The lock will self-activate in light guns firing cartridges with heavy bullets. Michael Bane talks about this on his podcast; it is repeatable. I went to purchase a 640. I really like the new one with fluted barrel and night sights. Problem was the barrel was very obviously crooked. The price was very high too at $749.

Grant Cunningham outlines the problems with Taurus revolvers. I'd get one, especially a snub nosed gun in 22 Long Rifle, if the internals were better.

 

[Guillermo]

Did Old Fool dip into the Maker's and have a little to get off his chest?

Me thinks he might be tired of the people that claim to know "oh so much"

 

[Guillermo]

I can tell you that S&W is as prone to stupid assembly mistakes as anyone, even Jimenez.

S&W would be near Colt, but the poorly designed lock and current quality issues keep me from buying their new guns. The lock will self-activate...

I say things like this and I am constantly called a "hater" so you guys watch out.

 

[oldfool]

yeah G, "liar, liar, pants on fire" and firewater just don't mix well at all
I oughta' know that by now, too
good thing me and wg never were really close friends, I guess
but thank gawd, at least we don't do politics here


hey, if I kick the dawg, the dawg bites back, you know
and I be too old and slow to outrun 'em

 

[Guillermo]

I be too old and slow to outrun 'em

only a fool would chase you.

I suspect you always have one of those old S&Ws around and can shoot the beak off of a hummingbird at 300 yards with the gun clenched in your butt cheeks while doing a one handed handstand on the hood of a monster truck that is crushing school buses.

 

[Mike J]

I suspect you always have one of those old S&Ws around and can shoot the beak off of a hummingbird at 300 yards with the gun clenched in your butt cheeks while doing a one handed handstand on the hood of a monster truck that is crushing school buses.

I would pay to see that shot take place.

As far as Taurus. I don't have much experience with them but my wife has an old model 85 that she already had when we got married in '04. I have shot it a few times. Now I am not really a revolver guy (my only centerfire revolver is an old Dan Wesson .357 I picked up used back in the mid 90's) but it seems just fine to me. After joining this forum I did go over it following the instructions in the revolver check out thread & it is tight. Of course since she & I have been married 8 years & she was given it by her Ex-Father-in Law (she had to been divorced 4 years when we met) it has to be at least 12 years old. I have no idea how old it actually is or if the newer ones are made as well.

Edited to add: This is going to show how little I know about these but apparently this revolver is pre-1996 as it does not have a lock. I learned they added the lock then from a link in the model 85 thread.

 

[Guillermo]

I would pay to see that shot

If you are impressed with Old Fool's shooting you should see Old Fuff!!!

He can shoot a dingleberry off a hummingbird butt in flight at 150 yards with a 500 mag derringer made of styrofoam clenched in his butt cheeks while doing ty-bo on the hood of a moving car that is careening through traffic driven by a spider monkey on crack while he is adding adding some brilliant post to The High Road from his smart phone.

That stuff will humble we mere mortals

 

[clem]

HEY JR47, it's Clem "the traveling basher", (someday we'll have to meet for coffee).

Anyway, here is the 941 cylinder I ment to post. Look at the 1:00 o'clock chamber. I had worked on it but stopped because I didn't want it too large to rupture brass.
The other chambers are a lot better then when I first bought the revolver.

I have 3 other Taurus weapons, an older 66 revolver in .357 mag (works great!, a Judge (works great!) and a Auto loader 99 (works excellent!).

So, I just don't know what happened to Taurus in the last couple of years in the area of quality control and customer service.

 

[spanishjames]

Clem: This is the cylinder of a NEW Taurus 941.

Is that your gun?
Looks just like the second picture in this thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450251&highlight=spanishjames+taurus

 

[MCgunner]

Did Old Fool dip into the Maker's and have a little to get off his chest?

I'm not real sure what he said or who he was dissin', but it made me chuckle.

 

[skidder]

He can shoot a dingleberry off a hummingbird butt in flight at 150 yards with a 500 mag derringer made of styrofoam clenched in his butt cheeks while doing ty-bo on the hood of a moving car that is careening through traffic driven by a spider monkey on crack while he is adding adding some brilliant post to The High Road from his smart phone.

Now that's some pretty rich programming, and a visual like that would take therapy to erase. I'll pass on the tickets to that wild west show.

 

[MCgunner]

I will be tuning in, just to see what you think of McBride's selection there, G
I have faith in your 1st person evaluations, I do

but after that, you really ought to swing on by Collector's Firearms in Houston, just to get that nasty "new gun taste" out of your mouth, bud

I bought my TC Contender at Collector's Firearms at a decent price. They've a friggin' HUGE inventory, like going to a gun show.

 

[clem]

Is that your gun?
Looks just like the second picture in this thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450251&highlight=spanishjames+taurus

Yes, that is from my NEW gun. Goes to show you that mine is not the only one out there or that got by Taurus' quality control.

 

[cwl1862]

At one time I owned a Taurus PT58HC, 19 shot 380ACP, Big gun for a 380 but man was it fun to shoot! Regret trading it away last year but then I always do........ Never owned a Taurus revolver, looked at the model 85 in 327 Federal, but upted for the Ruger SP101 instead, and then there was the NIB Taurus 22 mag at the gun show, picked it up to look at and the rear sight just fell off! Not a real confidense builder there! Now reciently I've been looking at a used Model 66 4" 357 at a local GS, nice gun in good condition, nice trigger too, they want 325.00 for it but I think it's a little high as I can purchase a new one on GB for 375.00. All in all Taurus makes some good guns, do they turn out the occasional lemon....yep, but then they all do.

 

[Landric]

A 50% Taurus Success Rate...

Before I get labeled as a mindless Taurus basher, let me get this out front. I have owned six Taurus revolvers, and only three of them were trash!

Here they are:

1) Early-90's 669 .357 -Very inaccurate and inconsistent (it wasn't me, multiple shooters couldn't hit anything with it). A trip back to Taurus failed to fix the problem. I can't remember what became of it, I bought it new, so it was quite a while ago.

2) Mid-90's 85CH .38 Special. Worked just fine, not as nice as a J-frame S&W of the era, but still a solid gun. Sold it to a friend. Lost touch with friend, so no idea how it held up over the long haul.

3) Mid-90's (no lock) 441 (or 431 not sure) .44 Special. Again, solid, reliable, accurate. Kept it for a while without problems. Eventually sold it on Gunbroker for more than I paid for it.

4) ~2006 production 85UL .38 Special. Bought new and given to a friend to carry when he opened his business and only had a Beretta 92G and some long guns (he is a small guy, and try as he might, the Beretta didn't work for CCW for him). He still has and carries the 85UL daily. I've shot it and witnessed him shoot it many times with zero issues.

5) Recent (2010?) Production 327 .327 Federal. Awful, poor timing, lockup, and cylinder would simply refuse to close from time to time for no obvious reason. It was fine when I tested it at the shop, problems developed after I shot about 50 rounds of .32 H&R Magnum through it (no .327 Federal ammunition to be had at the time). I returned it to the shop, he returned it to his distributor, and got me another 327.

6) 327 #2. Exact same problems, though slightly less pronounced. Returned it also, and it went back to the distributor. I used my refunded money to buy a .32 H&R Magnum Ruger Single Six. That was one of the better gun choices I made. I love that revolver.

So, my experience with Taurus has been mixed. However, a 50% success rate isn't good enough for them to keep my business, especially when there are other guns out there with lower (in my experience) failure rates.

I've owned at least 50 S&W products (Revolvers and Autos) from old to recent production and never had a single problem with any of them. Same success rate goes for HK, Glock, Beretta, and North American Arms. I've had one dud Ruger out of quite a few, and Ruger is my current favorite revolver manufacturer. I have experienced an internal lock failure with a S&W revolver (a new production 1917 moon clip .45 ACP) that cause the gun to fail to fire. That was with a demo gun at the Carolina Cup several years back, and it simply solidified my hatred of the internal lock. I won't buy an S&W that has one.

Other guns I have had that were complete junk:

-Springfield Champion Lightweight 1911 .45 ACP -Total Trash
-Para-Ordinance P13.45 -Slightly less trashy than the Springfield
-Kel-Tec P40 -Probably the single wost gun I have ever owned
-Ruger P90DC .45 ACP -Inaccurate and unreliable
-SIG P220, P225, P230 -All three broke trigger return springs in < 500 rounds

 

[HiVel1]

That is the

 

[HiVel1]

That is thenew??????

 

[theicemanmpls]

I am a mindless Taurus Basher.

50% of Taurus products landric owned were failures.

Taurus makes money selling a low end product to Noobs, and those who don't know any better. Those folks who want a pistol in the house, and never shoot it.

Question:How many police/sheriff, state, or federal agencies have contracts with Taurus?

Answer: Very few if any.

Question: How many folks who carry a weapon for a living choose Taurus.
Answer: unknown.

While sometimes one will find a Taurus product that performs and exceeds limitations, the number of failures overshadows those rare success stories.

I own a Taurus product, and have shot many OPT's (other peoples Tauri)

 

[theicemanmpls]

eom

 

[MCgunner]

Taurus makes money selling a low end product to Noobs, and those who don't know any better. Those folks who want a pistol in the house, and never shoot it.

So, I'm sure glad to know someone so wise is teaching me his wisdom. Seems to know more about 3 of my guns than I do, even though he's never seen one of 'em let alone fired one. Also says I'm a "noob". I'm flattered that I don't show my age. When I was in high school, Led Zepplin cut their first album. I've been shooting since age 6, handguns since high school.

 

[theicemanmpls]

So, I'm sure glad to know someone so wise is teaching me his wisdom. Seems to know more about 3 of my guns than I do, even though he's never seen one of 'em let alone fired one. Also says I'm a "noob". I'm flattered that I don't show my age. When I was in high school, Led Zepplin cut their first album. I've been shooting since age 6, handguns since high school.

Some folks sure do take the internet very serious.
I suggest that someone take this thread, and count the number of positive vs negative Taurus postings.
I worked in a Gun Store for a while, and despite my best efforts to sway the sale, I sold many Taurus products. I had to smile when some folks came back, and said their new pistol didn't work so well. My reply was, "told you so". Now I concede other manufactures products failed, but not at the rate of the infamous Tauri brand.
I have no idea why the best rock and roll band ever is being brought up. I saw two led zep concerts, one east coast, one west coast. That is all I remember of the concerts.
For your listening enjoyment. Two band members doing an old Hank Williams tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWw3dVNloVI

 

[R.W.Dale]

My biggest beef with Taurus is they make so many revolvers in a configuration I want!

For whatever reason if s&w sees fit to actually make a revolver in a caliber other than 38/357 for some odd reason the price suddenly doubles

Ruger wich is a company I adore suffers from much the same vanilla affliction with reguards to DA revolver configurations. Come on a 22lr LCR but no 9mm?

Anyways I've owned many Taurus revolvers and one 1911 that aside from a slightly low end feel have all been completely trouble free serviceable firearms. However it would be pure Pollyanna to ignore all the reports of serious quality and service faults associated with Taurus. So even though I will continue to buy taurui I do so only if I can inspect the firearm on the spot and have some assurance of CS from the retailer on new guns.

FYI I my 905

 

[Texas Gun Person]

I have a model 85 and it is clearly not as tight as my S&W 642. The trigger on the 642 is also noticeably smoother.

But the few Taurus guns I have owned have always gone bang when I pulled the trigger.