Teen Paralyzed by ND of Illegal CCW
- Thread starter JCF
- Start date
- Status
pharmer
Member
My bet is a Glock, not in a holster, condition 1. Or maybe a loaded revolver with a cocked hammer. Joe
Gordon
Member
I am a Calif. CCW holder, and I DO have to work at it.I really didn't and shouldn't have to work at it in the other 31 states I am licensed in. I still stand my ground that unfair Ca. laws hold some culpability in the situation.A gun is much less likely to 'go off' in a proper holster, the law forbid him holster carry! This was a tragic accident however and a violation of Calif storage laws and unlawful possesion that should be prosecuted. The reality of the situation is the coming civil judgement he deserves that will no doubt be life crushing.
carebear
Member
The law apparently kept him from legal, on body holster carry.
But he then chose to carry off body in what turned out to be a patently unsafe manner, and someone was horribly injured.
Whatever sympathy he may have earned for being deprived of his chance to legally carry, turns into absolute criticism for illegally carrying stupidly. He could have holstered, or gunrug-ed the gun in the backpack and not negligently shot anyone. Instead he chose to put it in there carelessly and someone else paid the price.
He needs to do some paying too, for his poor choices.
But he then chose to carry off body in what turned out to be a patently unsafe manner, and someone was horribly injured.
Whatever sympathy he may have earned for being deprived of his chance to legally carry, turns into absolute criticism for illegally carrying stupidly. He could have holstered, or gunrug-ed the gun in the backpack and not negligently shot anyone. Instead he chose to put it in there carelessly and someone else paid the price.
He needs to do some paying too, for his poor choices.
buzz_knox the only way according to the manual that I by-passed the safety was by having a loaded round in the chamber. The manual clearly states Do not carry the pistol with either of the safety stops engaged. I also carried as spartan55 recommend with the hammer down and that is when it dented a primer. So called experts told that either way should have been safe as long as the thumb safety was engaged. I have shot rifle competition for many years and one of the cardinal rules is that if you don't have faith in your weapon get rid of the weapon because you will never achieve excellence. The same should be said should be said about safety. I tried carrying the gun two different ways unsuccessfully and I didn't want to end up a static like both the people in this event. By the way your recommendation of carrying fully cocked and locked also is in direct conflict with the safety instruction of the manual.
kungfuhippie
Member
646/446,997=.001445 OR 0.145% CCW
That's a tenth of Dallas County. IN many parts of PRK ccw is only given to retired and current LEO and to politicians and their "friends" (can you say bribe)
In Riverside County according to packing.org a county with 1,545,387 population there are only 712 permits and their idea of "good cause" to issue is;
1) Life has been threatened. Documented proof with police report along with recommendation letter from police or sheriffs department that you obtain a permit.
2) Are an active/retired/reserve law enforcement agent.
3) Are a family member of an active/retired/reserve law enforcement agent with documented proof that your life has been threatened.
4) A city employee with a need to carry a firearm.
This is only 0.046% of their population or 1 in every 2144 people have a ccw.:banghead:
Oh and Riverside County Sherriff has over 2200 employees, and then there are police departments in the larger cities too.
So yeah, our state isn't corrupt
That's a tenth of Dallas County. IN many parts of PRK ccw is only given to retired and current LEO and to politicians and their "friends" (can you say bribe)
In Riverside County according to packing.org a county with 1,545,387 population there are only 712 permits and their idea of "good cause" to issue is;
1) Life has been threatened. Documented proof with police report along with recommendation letter from police or sheriffs department that you obtain a permit.
2) Are an active/retired/reserve law enforcement agent.
3) Are a family member of an active/retired/reserve law enforcement agent with documented proof that your life has been threatened.
4) A city employee with a need to carry a firearm.
This is only 0.046% of their population or 1 in every 2144 people have a ccw.:banghead:
Oh and Riverside County Sherriff has over 2200 employees, and then there are police departments in the larger cities too.
So yeah, our state isn't corrupt
Sindawe
Member
I think "ruined" is a bit of a strech. Irrevocably changed from what she had envisioned, yes. For that the fool with the gun in the backpack should be penalized and for the rest of his life a portion of any money he gets diverted to help pay for medical costs this girl will have. I'd toss in ten years penance as her personal assistant 24x7.
darkknight
Member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2006
- Messages
- 224
The only person here to blame is the guy. Even if California was a shall issue state on school grounds it still would have been illegal as it should be IMO. He could have made a lot of diffrent choices, number one knowing he was breaking multiple laws he should have had it in a good holster. He probably should not have had one in the camber for just this reason cause accidents do happpen and anything that can go wrong will go wrong. also if he had a vehicle why not leave it in there, i live in a big city in california and never had my car broken into at any school. And the academys to teach u about gun saftey and they warn of things like this but yet they all carry locked and loaded on duty. i passed the guard card course at a local academy and am able to carry on duty and i know my instructors would have washed us out of the academy for such stupidity/negligence. I feel horrible for said little girl and hope a miracle can happen for her but it probalby wont. And for him having to support his family well he will have a lot problems with that due to the civil suit he will pay out. He was responsible for his actions he knowingly broke the law and he may lose his house for it and more possible due to family strain. That being said i hope that doesnt happen to him but its a very real possibility. But dont knock the state for enforcing it laws.
spartan55
Member
Thumbing my manual
Thumbing through my 1911 manual I come across The safety Features........
"Number 5: Inertia Firing Pin : The firing pin is designed to operate on the principal of inertia, with its length shorter than the overall length of breechlock. It REQUIRES a blow from a fully cocked hammer to strike a persuss the cartridge primer."
That being said MURPHY is out there.
The man had good intentions but lacked good judgement. We all take a risk when we carry however we carry.........Same as driving a car, boat, going to work and just plain leaving the house. As men we need to take responsiblity for all our actions.
Thumbing through my 1911 manual I come across The safety Features........
"Number 5: Inertia Firing Pin : The firing pin is designed to operate on the principal of inertia, with its length shorter than the overall length of breechlock. It REQUIRES a blow from a fully cocked hammer to strike a persuss the cartridge primer."
That being said MURPHY is out there.
The man had good intentions but lacked good judgement. We all take a risk when we carry however we carry.........Same as driving a car, boat, going to work and just plain leaving the house. As men we need to take responsiblity for all our actions.
Outlaws
Member
Sindawe said:
I have said some things that pissed people off, even I think you should be banned from this site for that one.
Joe Demko
Member
What, in your estimation, would constitute ruined? It's more than simply not being able to walk. She has no sensation from where her spinal cord was severed on down. She most likely has tubes and bags to collect her wastes as she can't even feel it when she needs to piss! All this at age 17. I think the assclown in question did a rather fine job of ruining her life.
kungfuhippie
Member
First off, the girl's life has been ruined, but she may, and hopefully will rebuild from the broken pieces
wow outlaws, I didn't know your opinion was so important. People say dumb things but unless he makes a habit of it or starts attacking people and not their arguements I think a banning is irrational.
Ask the 15 students at Texas A&M that died in 1966 if they'd of prefered good guys to be armed on campus.
Allowing legal carry on college and university campus by law abiding students and faculty will allow the innocent to prevent bad people, like Mr. Whitman, from killing random people because those law abiding people will be able to protect themselves. Arming good people results in safer enviornments.
Mr. Whitman did not care about a no-gun on campus law any more than he cared about the 15 people he murdered.
wow outlaws, I didn't know your opinion was so important. People say dumb things but unless he makes a habit of it or starts attacking people and not their arguements I think a banning is irrational.
Ask the 15 students at Texas A&M that died in 1966 if they'd of prefered good guys to be armed on campus.
Allowing legal carry on college and university campus by law abiding students and faculty will allow the innocent to prevent bad people, like Mr. Whitman, from killing random people because those law abiding people will be able to protect themselves. Arming good people results in safer enviornments.
Mr. Whitman did not care about a no-gun on campus law any more than he cared about the 15 people he murdered.
Sean Dempsey
Member
I think it's horrible that this girl was injured so bad, it's really a true tragedy.
but, I think the interest in the gun isn't for hee-haw gawking, but more to determing if it was
a) a defective gun
b) a pencil/pen/chapstick in the triggerguard of a cocked semi,
b1) a cocked glock
b2) a cocked, unsafed 1911
b3) a cocked XD
c) a cocked revolver (see b.)
d) none of the above
I think we all know that guns are meant to only be fired intentionally. But there are alot of little parts and widgets inside semi's, and you won't be able to convince me that a defective, broken part can't allow a gun to discharge unintentionally.
Say it was a Glock, and there was a 1 in a million defective part inside the mechanics, and it suddenly gave way due to bad metallurgy or a oversight in Q&A in the factory. So even if it was holstered, safed, and properly stored, it still might have dischared. thats only if it was a BROKEN, DEFECTIVE gun. Just like brakes going out from a mechanical error, its not the drivers fault, sometimes brakes DO fail and people are killed, and there's no one to blame.
If the gun was 100% working, then we move to the idea that this gun did something very stupid which changes the equation. This is now killing someone when you are racing down the street at 120mph trying to prove to your friends your new beamer is awesome.
So anyways, flame away. I think the interest in the gun is to discern whether the guy had a gun that went defective and had a mechanical error, or if he put it in his backpack filled with finger shaped objects.
but, I think the interest in the gun isn't for hee-haw gawking, but more to determing if it was
a) a defective gun
b) a pencil/pen/chapstick in the triggerguard of a cocked semi,
b1) a cocked glock
b2) a cocked, unsafed 1911
b3) a cocked XD
c) a cocked revolver (see b.)
d) none of the above
I think we all know that guns are meant to only be fired intentionally. But there are alot of little parts and widgets inside semi's, and you won't be able to convince me that a defective, broken part can't allow a gun to discharge unintentionally.
Say it was a Glock, and there was a 1 in a million defective part inside the mechanics, and it suddenly gave way due to bad metallurgy or a oversight in Q&A in the factory. So even if it was holstered, safed, and properly stored, it still might have dischared. thats only if it was a BROKEN, DEFECTIVE gun. Just like brakes going out from a mechanical error, its not the drivers fault, sometimes brakes DO fail and people are killed, and there's no one to blame.
If the gun was 100% working, then we move to the idea that this gun did something very stupid which changes the equation. This is now killing someone when you are racing down the street at 120mph trying to prove to your friends your new beamer is awesome.
So anyways, flame away. I think the interest in the gun is to discern whether the guy had a gun that went defective and had a mechanical error, or if he put it in his backpack filled with finger shaped objects.
kungfuhippie
Member
Whoops, well the point is the same, haven't been to Austin yet, just through Amarillo. Thanks for the correction so I won't sound like such an idiot next time I mention this. So just to clarify, no famous shooting incidents at Texas A&M?
Go back an read the first page again. Some were, but like many technical minded people, we tend to go straight to causes and fixes, and not dwell on the injuries.
I have never attempted to carry a 1911 in anything but cocked and locked. Sometimes there is a round in the chamber, sometimes not. With the thumb safety up, the slide is locked so I know it won't inadvertently pick up a round if unloaded. I have never heard of anyone depending on a half cock or hammer-down condition. (I have an SA loaded and a mil-spec 1911.)
To be honest, I don't ever attempt to decock a 1911 either. I just eject the mag and rack the slide to empty it. Much, Much safer way to unload.
All that said, no pistol should ever be stored or carried loaded without some sort of holster or case to protect the trigger well and mechanism. The only exception I make occasionally is my Kel-Tec P32 in my back pocket, and that only because there is nothing else in there and it is flat.
Yes. But that's not the point of the questioning. The fact is that there are details here about the incident that are missing from this report, and we want to know. That doesn't make us discompassionate. Our desire to know EXACTLY how the tragedy occurred is a good thing - greater understanding of these bad mistakes makes us all better able to prevent them.
I want to know: did he use a holster, did his holster fail, was it a cheap holster, did he have pencils smacking his trigger, was it a badly designed gun, was it a malfunction. Knowing these things can help us increase our vigilance accordingly.
You might be jumping to conclusions here. I bet if you went around telling people in wheelchairs that their lives are ruined, they might take a little exception. This is a terrible tragedy, but I'd think that it would be pretty cruel to think of all wheelchair-bound people as having ruined lives. It's not our place to say her life is ruined - think of what your "compassion" is doing here. From the limited info, she seems to have a pretty strong spirit and I have faith she'll do better than "ruined."
MrTuffPaws
Member
That or any other gun not in a holster with the safety off. Though, if the guy was stupid enought to put a cocked revolver in a backpack, then he should have shot himself for his stupidity.
I hope so. Maybe it's not our place to declare someone's life ruined, but the victim does a pretty good job of explaining her position here.
.
It's a terrible tragedy and I find the cavalier attitude exhibited by some towards something as serious as this sickening.
I hope every responsible gun owner has the occasional nightmare about being responsible for something like this. That would do a whole lot more than wondering what gun he had.
Gordon ... "Unfair" California laws ??? The laws of California are the voice of the people. California has a republican form of government. There is nothing "Unfair" about the Ca. laws. The people speak, some just refuse to listen, or comply. What Ca. law are you referencing, as forbiding the guy carrying in a holster ? I carry in a holster in Ca. I am really concerned if there are laws here that forbid my carrying in a holster. Please disclose your information.
The issue was not whether there was or was not one in the chamber. The issue is that he carried presumably without a holster with a loaded gun in a backpack (presumably with other things inside the backpack). Had the gun been in a proper holster on his hip OWB or IWB (or maybe even in the backpack in a holster), this would not have happened. He's an idiot for carrying the way he did.
Gun safety is priority #1 for any responsible firearm owner--it must be. The instant it's not, something like this happens and gives ammo and air time to the antis posting pics of some paralyzed girl to win bleeding heart anti votes.
I see your point in that if he were legally allowed to carry OWB or IWB or something like that, then *hopefully* he would have opted to carry in a holster like that instead of unholstered in a backpack full of junk. However, that said, I think that despite the crappy CA laws, this guy made a stupid, unsafe decision. Would you have done the same thing? Probably not. I doubt any of us here would think about carrying a loaded firearm with one in the chamber inside a backpack (presumably with other things in it) without a holster. Heck, even the people who pocket carry on here use a holster! All the guy needed to do was use a dang holster.
kungfuhippie
Member
He meant open carry when he said holster carry, come-on
He is refering to the sherriffs that are left to their discretion weither or not you have "good cause" to ccw.
In my county "good cause" is that you want to protect yourself and your family.
In the county to the south, Riverside Co. good cause is;
These "good causes" wern't voted on in an election, they are the opinion of one man who, bless his socialist heart, thinks that guns are for the elite and not the pesants and thinks he'll stop crime by disarming the people of his county.
He is refering to the sherriffs that are left to their discretion weither or not you have "good cause" to ccw.
In my county "good cause" is that you want to protect yourself and your family.
In the county to the south, Riverside Co. good cause is;
These "good causes" wern't voted on in an election, they are the opinion of one man who, bless his socialist heart, thinks that guns are for the elite and not the pesants and thinks he'll stop crime by disarming the people of his county.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
