Tell me about the 44 special GP100

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CraigC said:
What bullets could you possibly use that the twist rate would be too slow for?



Posting what is possible and posting data are two very different things. Ruger is going to take the liability-conscious route. According to them, the Redhawk .45Colt is only good for 14,000psi mouse fart loads, not the 50,000psi monster mashers that they can actually handle. This is no different, except the Tier 3 loads outlined in the article, which you obviously have not read, are suitable for more than just Rugers.
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I guess I can understand that but I wonder why we’re so careful to note over-pressure handloads but less so when discussing actual firearms. The .44 SPL 5” is 11 oz less than the 5.5 44 Mag Redhawk. We don’t really know what pressure Ruger has actually built it to withstand safely over the long term, do we? The whole Ruger-only concept is really nebulous territory, IMO, and could get people in trouble without serious consideration of the risks.

Ruger says the revolver can handle 15k Psi, but you told someone that you “were sure” it could handle 25K- a 167% load for the rated caliber. How sure can you be that the common wisdom and shared experiences with .45 Colt in a Super Blackhawk that weighs within 3 ounces of a .44 Mag apply to a GP100?
 
To be 100% honest...I really don’t know.

what I DO know is that the GP100 is a stout framed 357 magnum revolver that can take out well in excess of 30K PSI magnum loads on a regular basis. Because of that, I was figuring the frame and even the thinner forcing cone could easily take on 20K PSI 44 spcl loads. If it were an all new gun, I may be hesitant...but the GP100 is a proven magnum capable frame.

I’m not suggesting cranking a 30K psi 44 load through the thing...but I’m guessing it can run most loads from the article I referenced.
 
Typetwelve said:
To be 100% honest...I really don’t know.

what I DO know is that the GP100 is a stout framed 357 magnum revolver that can take out well in excess of 30K PSI magnum loads on a regular basis. Because of that, I was figuring the frame and even the thinner forcing cone could easily take on 20K PSI 44 spcl loads. If it were an all new gun, I may be hesitant...but the GP100 is a proven magnum capable frame.

I’m not suggesting cranking a 30K psi 44 load through the thing...but I’m guessing it can run most loads from the article I referenced.
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I ran around 2000 skeeter loads through mine for plinking and pest control. I did run some milder loads though it but they ended up being minute of paper plate at 25yds. Maybe it was because of how I was doing it.
I swaged down some 180gr home cast .451 dia boolits to .430 in 3 stages then hand filed the grease groove back before pan lubing and loading in the neighborhood of 550~600fps. If I remember correctly I used just 357 mag loads of unique with homemade spacers made from strips of some kind of plastic to get the loose case volume down a little closer to the 357. It was a neat experiment even though it failed.
I never experimented with anything over skeeter loads though. I respect my guns too much to shoot really hot loads through them. Even my 357 Blackhawk will never see loads more than a hair or two above max.. Depending on what load data I use. I know some Lee and Lyman data can run significantly hotter than say Hornady or Hogdon.
 
Necessary_Nutrient said:
I guess I can understand that but I wonder why we’re so careful to note over-pressure handloads but less so when discussing actual firearms. The .44 SPL 5” is 11 oz less than the 5.5 44 Mag Redhawk. We don’t really know what pressure Ruger has actually built it to withstand safely over the long term, do we? The whole Ruger-only concept is really nebulous territory, IMO, and could get people in trouble without serious consideration of the risks.

Ruger says the revolver can handle 15k Psi, but you told someone that you “were sure” it could handle 25K- a 167% load for the rated caliber. How sure can you be that the common wisdom and shared experiences with .45 Colt in a Super Blackhawk that weighs within 3 ounces of a .44 Mag apply to a GP100?
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I'm not telling anybody anything and no one has posted load data. Anyone who wants to know should read the article(s) mentioned.

The "Ruger only" concept is not nebulous at all. It is crystal clear for those who have actually educated themselves on the subject. It is a very, very well beaten path. It is even paved, with traffic lights. Not something someone cooked up in their basement last week, far from it.
 
Personally, I do not hot rod loads for low pressure, turn of the century ammunition. I just do not feel the risks out weigh the rewards.

There are plenty of guns chambered for higher pressure loadings that there is no need to push the envelope on low pressure cartridges.

But, to each his own.
 
cfullgraf said:
Personally, I do not hot rod loads for low pressure, turn of the century ammunition. I just do not feel the risks out weigh the rewards.

There are plenty of guns chambered for higher pressure loadings that there is no need to push the envelope on low pressure cartridges.

But, to each his own.
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What are the risks?
 
CraigC said:
What are the risks?
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1. The risk of hot loads being inadvertently used in a firearm incapable of handling the higher pressures.

2. Why risk wrecking a nice firearm when other firearms that are capable of handling the higher pressure ammunition are available. One assumes that the unofficial information that a firearm is capable of handling higher pressure ammunition is actually correct.

As I said, to each his own.
 
CraigC said:
1. Easily avoidable.

2. This path is well traveled. We know for a fact, without any doubt, which guns can handle what loads.
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Oh you do? Sounds like a bunch of folks giving vague, wildly high pressures for guns that aren't labeled for it when what we KNOW is that the gun is labeled from the factory to handle .44 SPL. If you know, without any doubt, what the Ruger GP100 in .44 SPL will handle then what is that PSI and how did you determine it?

I think these are fair questions when you're making assertions with no qualifiers or caveats that could get shooters in very serious trouble if you're wrong.
 
Necessary_Nutrient said:
Oh you do? Sounds like a bunch of folks giving vague, wildly high pressures for guns that aren't labeled for it when what we KNOW is that the gun is labeled from the factory to handle .44 SPL. If you know, without any doubt, what the Ruger GP100 in .44 SPL will handle then what is that PSI and how did you determine it?

I think these are fair questions when you're making assertions with no qualifiers or caveats that could get shooters in very serious trouble if you're wrong.
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One more time. No one has done that. The ARTICLE referenced, written by Brian Pearce and published in Handloader magazine contains the important facts, data and details.
 
LoonWulf said:
Just comparing frame sizes and cylinder sizing, the gps no slouch. Where the weak point seems to be is the forcing cone. If i did manage to crack mine, id probably have it opened up and a custom barrel fitted if possible. I dont know if thats a possibility, as im not real familiar with revolvers, but it seems like a "long term" fix if it is.
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This is absolutely correct, the forcing cone is the weak point of this gun. Plenty for maximum 44 Special loads, but odds are it's not gonna hold up long term if you Elmer Keith it.

Love mine.
 
I enjoy mine, I have the 3" stainless but I used to have the 5" blued full lug version, wish I would have kept that one. I haven't shot it a lot and haven't worked up any loads for it yet, but it's strong enough that it should easily gobble up the 25K Brian Pearce loads without much issue. There is a lot of interior cylinder wall thickness but not a lot of exterior wall thickness. I compared it to my GP100 10mm (exterior wall) and I have no doubt it could handle 25-30K psi loads.

Yes the forcing cone isn't very thick so that could be of some issue for the hot stuff, at least long term, but I don't think I'd want to shoot a ton of really hot stuff through it anyways, to me the draw is heavy-ish bullets at a moderate speed. I did chrono the 245gr Underwoods FMJ out of it and it averaged 920 fps and I can tell you, it's not a weak load, it's not painful but it lets you know you've fired it. Personally I'd like to get a 280gr doing about 1000-1050 fps out of it for a good heavy load option, but something like a 240gr around 800-850 would be plenty for plinking.

All my centerfire revolvers are in 44 magnum, but the GP100 is my only dedicated 44 Special, I mainly got it because I love the GP100 platform and the 3" with unfluted cylinder just looks mean.
 
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I was interested in the GP 44 spl until I checked one out twice , I had a 240gr XTP in my pocket it measured .430" it fell though all five chambers.
So I asked the gun shop owner "just how big are these chamber throats?" he said " lets find out" as he pulled out a case of pin gauges. turns out the throats on the GP were .433"
I checked out a GP 44 before this and had the same result regarding the throat diameter it was about .433-.434" This is a good bit more than I would want to see for a 44 spl.
 
CraigC said:
I long for the days when we shot guns, rather than measured them, to find out how they shot. :confused:
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There is definitely a point of diminishing returns with that kind of thing. My wife has often called me a "fun sucker" from over thinking things and not enjoying them.

I'll admit that I never measured my Super Redhawk...and I had plenty of lead-load problems with the thing over the past year. I made all kinds of loads, shot them, and kept good notes and in the end, I fixed my problems and never measured the gun once.

Not to dispute the process of others, but I leaned a ton by shooting and noting what changed. I've got to the point where I can look at a gun that's having an issue with a lead load and see what the problem is, no measurements required.
 
Crosshair said:
Now I'm going to have to go check out my GP 100 to see if it has the same thing @joneb describes.
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To make things more clear I have a Ruger Red Hawk chambered in 44 magnum and the cylinder throats are .4335" ish I can not shoot a cast lead bullet through this gun with out major leading. I tried it all bhn from 12-18 and velocities from mild to hot, nothing works. So I will not risk another disappointment by buying a Ruger in 44 cal with oversized throats.
 
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CraigC said:
One more time. No one has done that. The ARTICLE referenced, written by Brian Pearce and published in Handloader magazine contains the important facts, data and details.
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funny, I keep pressing ARTICLE yet no website loads. The original reference to it- from another member- also has no link.

IMO if posting recommendations as facts this should be linked.
 
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joneb said:
Well nice shooting, was there any leading?
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No leading.


Necessary_Nutrient said:
funny, I keep pressing ARTICLE yet no website loads. The original reference to it- from another member- also has no link.

IMO if posting recommendations as facts this should be linked.
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Not everything worth knowing is on a free web page. I paid for mine and I pay for continued access to the information contained therein. With the tone of your posts, I'm not doing your research for you. For those who really want it, they can easily find it.
 
RugRev said:
With respect to articles in Handloader magazine on the .44 SP one of the first Brian Pierce articles can be found here:

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/Brian Pearce on the 44 Special.pdf

I believe there is a later article he published which downgraded the rating for max loads for the S&W 696 amongst other things but this either was before or did not include anything with respect to the GP100 .44.
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Thanks for that.
Brian recommends a bullet diameter that at least matches the chamber throat diameter, well that could be hard to do if your chamber throats are .4335". If you could find such a bullet it would not chamber.
 
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