Texas proposes alcohol sales at some gun shows

[Carl N. Brown]

Well, again, the Texas law was about alcohol sales at the "venue". The "venue" here in Kingsport, Tennessee would be the restaurant at the convention center (the only entity I see having the license to sell and serve alcohol). I am pretty sure there is a requirement for a "brick and mortar" address on a license to serve alcohol to the public, and nomads like gun shows aint gonna git one.

So I wonder who brought this up, the Texas gunshow operators, or the Texas hotel/convention center/auditoriums with alcohol licenses who lose revenue on the weekends that gunshows are held.

 

[wally]

My take is its a back door way to close larger venues to gun shows by claiming the politically connected "food and beverage service" operators "need" to sell alcohol.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Well, again, the Texas law was about alcohol sales at the "venue". The "venue" here in Kingsport, Tennessee would be the restaurant at the convention center (the only entity I see having the license to sell and serve alcohol). I am pretty sure there is a requirement for a "brick and mortar" address on a license to serve alcohol to the public, and nomads like gun shows aint gonna git one.

So I wonder who brought this up, the Texas gunshow operators, or the Texas hotel/convention center/auditoriums with alcohol licenses who lose revenue on the weekends that gunshows are held.

I'm not sure that I completely understand the point but the show promoter is not the one to carry the "on sale" license. They (the license holders) are the venue management/ownership or on rare occasions where applicable, contract vendors.

 

[Sam1911]

My take is its a back door way to close larger venues to gun shows by claiming the politically connected "food and beverage service" operators "need" to sell alcohol.

That is getting pretty deep.

 

[wally]

That is getting pretty deep.

How so? if the venues "need to sell alcohol" allows them to place restrictions on shows -- like no ammo sales! That would make the gun shows not worthwhile that is exactly how it would be "back door" closing of the venue.

I don't see any earthly reason for selling booze at gun shows, and while its been a long while since I've found any "deals" on ammo at gun shows, a lot of shooters buy from the local commercial reloaders at these shows.

 

[TRX]

Best as I can tell with a quick web search, Arkansas doesn't prohibit the sale of alcohol at gun shows.

I'm fairly sure I've seen vendors selling plastic cups of beer at some shows here. I would never have occurred to me that some places might have a law against it.

 

[Sam1911]

How so? if the venues "need to sell alcohol" allows them to place restrictions on shows -- like no ammo sales! That would make the gun shows not worthwhile that is exactly how it would be "back door" closing of the venue.

If the venues want to shut down gun shows they could ... like, you know ... not allow gun shows. Coming up with a long-winded excuse about how they NEED to sell alcohol (Need to? Says who?) so they're going to kill off the shows is just silly.

The argument wasn't that they had a moral obligation to sell booze, but rather that they could make MORE MONEY if they do. Closing down the shows entirely would seem to be exactly the opposite of making more money.



...

And besides, if you read any of the pertinent things written above you'll see that this has NOTHING to do with what we think of as "gun shows" anyway, but only pertains to certain kinds of exhibitions where guns are only tangentially present. If these events they're discussing do not sell guns then they aren't gun shows, in the sense that we know them.

Think sportsmans' club balls, hunting expositions, and the like. Not swap-and-sell gun shows like we attend each month. Read post 41 again.

This would effect something like the Hunters Extravaganza held in Fort Worth or other similar trade shows that aren't actually gun shows but may contain firearms for other purposes than sale.

 

[jrdolall]

Maybe a free 12 pack with a pistol purchase?

 

[dragon813gt]

So the clubs I belong to shouldn't sell beer? They at least don't let you shoot once you buy a beer. But nothing is stopping you from drinking before you get there. I can only imagine the horror some of you would experience at the monthly board shoots. These are held at fire houses that serve alcohol. And the shotgun rack is in the bar. People most certainly drink during these.

Serving alcohol at gun shows boils down to a public perception nightmare. We all know how the media is going to spin it. The likelihood of anything bad happening because if it are slim.

 

[orionengnr]

see post #41

To me, it just shows (yet again) that our "public servants" in Austin are every bit as unfocused and easily led as the ones in DC.

This is (one reason) why neither Open Carry nor Campus Carry have ever come up for a vote, despite significant support from state Senate and House members.

Our state leadership has their priorities (and their heads) somewhere else. Since this is THR, I'll say no more.

 

[HRnightmare]

I think allowing alcohol at gun shows seems like a bad idea. The vendors probably want it because people get loose(r) with their money after drinking a few. That's why Vegas casinos give away free drinks to people gambling!


I think however if this gets out to the liberals it will go viral and will be bad for the 2A advocates cause! Sort of like the clowns carrying AR's and AK's in Chipotle have done (coincidentally also a recent occurence in TX)

It almost seems like Texas is giving a big middle finger to the rest of the union and the Fed Gov't by doing this. That however I suspect will back fire on them.

I vote NO.

 

[HRnightmare]

Serving alcohol at gun shows boils down to a public perception nightmare. We all know how the media is going to spin it. The likelihood of anything bad happening because if it are slim.

I agree completely... However I still say its a bad idea overall. Sometimes you have to concede in a small battle in order to better be prepared for the larger war. Allowing alcohol at a gun show would likely push more people who are on the fence about gun rights and control to the opposing side rather than attract them to "our side".

 

[HRnightmare]

Sorry to post back to back... more ideas keep coming to my head.

I can't even see alot of vendors liking this idea. Some of the gunshows by me have a lot of vendors who don't sell guns, but just sell ammo and accessories. Most of the larger vendors thart own stores locally sell both.

SO...I am thinking not only are the "anti's" going to not want this, but many of the gun show vendors are not going to want it either as it will cost them money...Unless of course they are gonig to replace selling their ammo with beer. I think this will have enemies on both sides and only a few supporters on the for it side.

 

[Sam1911]

I can't even see alot of vendors liking this idea. Some of the gunshows by me have a lot of vendors who don't sell guns, but just sell ammo and accessories. Most of the larger vendors thart own stores locally sell both.

SO...I am thinking not only are the "anti's" going to not want this, but many of the gun show vendors are not going to want it either as it will cost them money...Unless of course they are gonig to replace selling their ammo with beer. I think this will have enemies on both sides and only a few supporters on the for it side.

HR, it makes much more sense if you understand that this isn't about GUN SHOWS. Read post 41, post 45, or the second half of post 57.

 

[Onward Allusion]

What's the difference between having a drink after work then driving home and having a drink while looking/handling an empty gun? Handling an empty gun is probably safer than driving, btw.

If a person can't control themselves after 1 or 2 beers, then they shouldn't be drinking in the first place.

 

[DeepSouth]

I say go for it, no biggie. Public intoxication laws still exist and would be strictly enforced I'm sure. So if someone wants to enjoy a beer or two while browsing guns I think he should be free to do it. It's just not a big deal.

My 2¢

 

[Fishbed77]

Firearms and alcohol don't mix where I come from.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Firearms and alcohol don't mix where I come from.

Right: Loaded firearms and alcohol don't mix.

And before you say it... If someone is wrong enough to load a round in a gunshow supposedly because of alcohol - then they don't need the alcohol to be stupid. If one believes that we are in an inherently more dangerous environment having alcohol at a gunshow due to diminished judgement the same could be said for ammunition at a gunshow to begin with.

If they don't have alcohol - fine, if they do, we're adults.

Now, an argument that a false fiscal base could be established by the; venue, municipality, county and/or state in order to later say that gun shows are not fiscally valid after withdrawing the alcohol revenue through legislation/corporate feel-good action? There's a not so "straw man" argument to be concerned with.

Point being:
It costs ($A) in revenue to support an event.
($A) eventually absorbs and in fact becomes dependent upon the alcohol revenues and becomes ($B).
($B) becomes the standard revenue amount to support an event.
Alcohol privileges are revoked returning revenue amounts to ($A) and the deciding party determines that since you can no longer have alcohol and the revenue is impacted accordingly, the shows get run out on a fiscal basis rather than a knee-jerk anti gun basis.

 

[plexreticle]

I don't care unless it comes with stipulations like no ammo sales.

I'm there to look at buy gun stuff, ammo included.

 

[DeepSouth]

Right: Loaded firearms and alcohol don't mix.

I'd even have to argue with that. I once bought a shotgun to be my "do all" shotgun the problem was I couldn't hit squat with it. Long story short I personally shot around 2k rounds that summer trying to learn it. I always shot with a friend sometimes 10 friends. I'd say almost every weekend of that summer I was shooting with people who were normally casually drinking. There was never a problem, never anything remotely careless, I'd do it again. As a matter of fact the most careless guy I remember never drank because he afraid of his wife.

That said a hunting club I was in once years back would get together and cook on our planting/cleanup day. Many of them would get well beyond tipsy, that's a no go, not that anything ever happened but I saw the four rules broken dozens of times.
There's a big difference in drinking a beer or 3 over the course of a afternoon and being drunk. Lumping them together and calling it bad is the same as saying water is bad because some people have drank theirselves to death with it.

Again my 2¢

 

[Gun Geezer]

Not even close.

A gun show proffered the idea, which would require a change of regs that govern gun shows.

It was suggested, so the appropriate agency put it out there for comment. That does NOT mean that "Texas" is making a proposal.


It'll never happen.

 

[justice06rr]

At the Wannenmacher gun show in Tulsa,,,
And I think all of the gun shows in that pavilion,,,
The snack bar sells draft beer in mugs that look like oil derricks.

When people say "no live ammo",,,
I think they mean no live ammo in your guns.

Even if you have a carry permit,,,
You have to unload your gun at the door,,,
If you want to keep it on your person they will zip-tie it.

The whole thing about guns and alcohol together is a moot point,,,
Both sides can argue their case and change no minds,,,
If you drink or not it's your personal choice.

I say if you can't have a beer or two and still act safely,,,
You probably shouldn't have a gun in the first place.

If it's such a big no-no,,,
Ban pics of guns and bottles of whiskey.

But that would be something Bloomberg would do.

JM ns HO - YMMV

Aarond

Good points.

I don't have a problem with alcohol, because I can control my own intake. Although its probably better if its sold outside of the gun show facilities and not inside--meaning no alcohol while in the gun show building or even if you are handling guns outside.

 

[danez71]

My point was simply, just because some people break the rules doesn't mean we change the rules to make it okay.

But allowing beer sales isn't changing any of the rules of guns.

That's like saying allowing beer sales at a baseball game is changing the rules of driving drunk.


Expanding my original post and being full disclosure, I don't really like the idea but I also know that that, IMO, banning beer is not right.... and I barely drink at all!

 

[Remander]

A guy explained on page 2 that this has nothing to do with the kind of "gun show" we go to.

It only applies to museum display type events with non functioning guns not sold on premises.

 

[Sam1911]

A gun show proffered the idea, which would require a change of regs that govern gun shows.

It was suggested, so the appropriate agency put it out there for comment. That does NOT mean that "Texas" is making a proposal.


It'll never happen.

Except that it ISN'T gun shows, because nothing that looks like a "Gun Show" as we know it is involved!!!

Geeze Louise, nobody's bothering to read what's actually being discussed!

ClickClickDOH posted this in number 41:

"The proposed change, which was announced Friday and is open to public comments for 30 days, would allow locations that are owned or leased by government or nonprofit organizations, and which only show or display guns “occasionally,” to to sell alcohol during those events as long as they meet three conditions: There can be no live ammunition in the facility; all guns must be “disabled and not readily convertible for use,” and no guns sold can be delivered to buyers on the premises.

The proposed rule would also allow alcohol sales at historical reenactments that involve firearms, as long as the firearms are historically accurate and kept unloaded or loaded with blanks."

This would effect something like the Hunters Extravaganza held in Fort Worth or other similar trade shows that aren't actually gun shows but may contain firearms for other purposes than sale.