Thank God for my Dillon 550B

[divemedic]

So comparing the cost of .223 today (with the temporary price surge) to the cost of ammo that you bought (some assembly required) a year ago means that my position is 'bullwhacky'?

To do a fair comparison, I think that you should compare those component costs to what I paid a year ago. I got .223 for $275 a year ago. Much less than the $400 today. That means that 5 hours of labor is saving you $140, or $7 bucks an hour. and we have already discussed how excluding the cost of brass is disingenuous.

 

[HK G3]

I've been scouring the internet for deals on .451 FMJ bullets. I haven't really been able to find anything yet. I've found excellent deals on 30 cal ammunition (I reload .308, and have been doing so for awhile, but just got into .45 ACP), and have been able to find deals at around $70/1000 30 cal bullets.

With .451, it's more like $130/1000 bullets, with a 5 week backorder. At least, that's the best I've been able to find as far as .451 is concerned. I should probably note I can't shoot cast lead because I have an HK with a polygonal barrel.

Does anyone have any suggestions or deals I should look into? I like to buy bullets in bulk - 1-2k+

 

[Landric]

By my math, saving $140 over the course of 5 hours is $28/hour, not $7. Since I make less than that at my job, it would be worth it if I only did it for cost savings.

 

[Dravur]

Honestly, the cost per hour of my time is irrelevant as no one is paying me for that time anyway. And yes, I do understand the opportunity costs, etc, etc. But, since this is my free time anyway and no one is paying me for it, I won't account for it.

Even so, I get better ammunition, at lower prices.

But, you are more than welcome to spend more money on new ammo. The last 9k rounds of .223 I bought was Lake City and cost me all of $200 per thousand. I have enough brass to last me the rest of my life.

 

[Clarence]

45 ACP factory loads = $16.00 / 50 rds (If you can find them)

My 45 ACP reloads = $5.50 / 50 rds

No brainer - that's why I reload.

 

[Gewehr98]

Reloading is cheaper.

I reload 24 different chamberings. The only factory ammo I buy is rimfire.

I have many obscure, obsolete, and wildcat chamberings.

Lead bullets are inferior? Oh, please! You're talking to folks who have decades of reloading experience, and you're telling them they're doing it wrong?

Done right, you'll never have a leading problem. That's not conjecture, that's fact. If you do get leading in your barrel, you're doing it wrong - period.

I shoot swaged and cast lead bullets in 9mm Luger, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .44 Special, .45 ACP, .30-30 Winchester, .30-40 Krag, .303 British, 8mm Mauser, and .45-70 Government. Many of those are bullets I cast from scrap lead pipe and wheelweights which I got for free. My ammo prices aren't too different than what Clarence quoted above, honestly.

Likewise, were I to buy even 20 of my normal 535gr cast Postell .45-70 rounds at retail prices, I'd probably have to give up shooting my Sharps for a while.

I shoot competitively, and a lot, be it IPSC, USPSA, IDPA, IHMSA, High Power, F-Class, or BPCR Silhouette. I have two Dillon progressives, one Hornady single-stage, one C-H single stage, and a Huntington hand press. I make ammo that's more accurate than factory, at a pace that's just fine for my purposes, and it's tailored to the guns that fire the stuff. Even my AKs and SKS rifles get my handloads - no Wolf or other surplus steel-cased garbage graces their chambers.

As a handloader since about 1976, I've been accumulating and horse-trading components and tools ever since, and add small amounts here and there. I'm still working on my primer/bullet/powder stash from the Y2K scare, honestly.

Instead of telling all of us reloaders how wrong they are, why don't you spend some time with one and see it from a different viewpoint? I'd be more than happy to invite you up here to Wisconsin and let you sit in on a reloading session in my garage, or even the reloading clinic I'm teaching at our local range.

It's one thing if you're too busy to bother with the process, or have extra ammo money burning a hole in your pocket. If that's the case, just say so. Otherwise, there's probably several hundred or more combined years of reloading experience at just THR.ORG alone, never mind THR.US and TFL.

Ammo prices aren't dropping, and that's assuming you can even find some. Walking through the aisles at both of my local Gander Mountain stores, as well as the local Cabelas, I don't get a real warm fuzzy...

 

[rogn]

Pointless to argue w/DM, his mind is fixed in place. But we all know of flexibility, accuracy, not having to wait for sales, cleaner burns(cleaner gun), purpose dedicated bullets, etc. ,etc. What does one do if 5K of frangible is only good to hit inside of closet w/door shut? I just change load and try again.

 

[Master Blaster]

Sure,, you can use lead bullets, but that makes for inferior ammo.
Sure, you can make ammo more accurate than factory, but then again, that means more QC, more care in weighing charges, checking case and cartridge length, etc. All of which hurts efficiency.

You know in my 25 years of working in both industry and Government, I have come accross a considerable number of experts and consultants who have no clue in their proported area of expertise. One thing they all share is the ability to blather on endlessly to a room full of folks who are experts.

I have been shooting bullseye pistol for about 20 years, I have met many ranked competitors and been at many matches, almost everyone shoots cast bullets, because they are more acurate than jacketed, and cause much less wear on your gun, important when you have a $2000 + pistol you shoot 100-200 rounds every week. The only factory load I have come across that is as good as my handloads is federal Gold Medal Match.

$750 per thousand if you can find any, thats $7500 plus shipping per 10,000.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=266229

It currently would cost me:

$240 10,000 primers,
$130 8 lbs Solo 1000 (4.5 grains per round = 45,000 grains, and 8 lbs =56,000grains)
$0 Brass I have 10,000 range pickups/ brass given to me.
$150 starline 1,000 pieces
$745 for 10,000 bullets with shipping from Bob P.
$20 hazmat
$1285 with brass, as compared to $7500 for the federal match.

Seems like a big savings to me.

 

[divemedic]

Let me say that I WAS enjoying the conversation, until we started with the attacks. (BTW- As far a my feeling that lead is inferior, you will note that I said "If I am wrong, educate me." I am not pig headed about it.

You will also note that I said the if the situation changed, I would reexamine the issue. That doesn't sound like a mind that is fixed.

My response was: If you are reloading to save money, and that is your only reason for reloading, you are incorrect in that you aren't saving what you think you are. The only reason many of you think you are saving money is because you are not factoring in hidden costs. Brass, your time, etc. I stand by that. That does not mean it will never be cost effective, or that reloading is never cost effective. Just that reloading is not cost effective NOW, with ammo that is easily available. The fact that some of you are GIVEN things like reloading equipment, supplies, etc., obviously changes things, because the costs are being paid by someone else.

Master Blaster: I don't do bullseye. I do IDPA. Nearly all factory ammo will meet that requirement. Again: my .45 cost $240 per thousand.

But, thanks to those of you who wanted to converse, and good luck to those fan boys who just want to snipe. Speaking of closed minds:

What does one do if 5K of frangible is only good to hit inside of closet w/door shut?

My frangible .357Sig does cloverleaf patterns at 25 yards. Good enough for me, as accurate as my pistols need to be.

 

[rdhood]

No attack here, divemedic.

I have some .40S&W ammo that I bought for $7 a box just two years ago. There is a big "$6.99" sticker plastered on the box. Reloading was only bringing marginal savings. Still, I reloaded enough to "pay back" my turret press. Now, though, I am making rounds for the same price that I was then, but retail is double... about $14 a box. Now, the savings are huge and significant.

For me, what you wrote was true two years ago but is not today. It might be true, again, two years from now. Only time will tell.

 

[lgbloader]

I am surprised that Johnny has let this thread run this long.

LGB