The 6mm Max Cartridge......

LoonWulf

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6mm Max cartridge was just brought to my attention by my FFL buddy.

This is from the website linked below.

"Why The 6mm MAX?​

The 6mm MAX is pressure tested to SAAMI standards of 55k psi. It is a brand new cartridge designed for the unmodified mil-spec .378 bolt face, and a full mass bolt carrier group. The 6mm MAX holds 35 grains of water capacity which ultimately determines the energy potential of the cartridge. In this case, 1750+Lbs of energy. Why is that so significant? The 6mm MAX can launch an 87 gr Berger VLD at 3009 fps from a 24” barrel. This produces 1749 lbs at the muzzle, 1504 lbs at 100 yards, 1093 lbs at 300 yards, 775 lbs at 500 yards, 533 lbs at 700 yards, and stays supersonic past 1000 yards. These ballistics are at standard atmospheric pressure and temperature.

Cartridge designers have struggled with 2.26 OAL, and having enough room for increased case capacity. Until recently, there hasn’t been a .378 case head cartridge available that has a 35 gr water capacity. This amount of water capacity is the engine that can power heavier, and high ballistics coefficient bullets up to 100 grs. The 6mm MAX can do this within the constraints of the AR-15, and function flawlessly. So the end result is that the 6mm MAX can push bullets 55 gr to 100 gr, and do it with the same 2.30 OAL. Some designs have emerged shorter and fatter to accommodate a bullet with better BC and enough powder for useful velocities. When comparing the water capacity of 24 Nosler (29 grs), 6.8 SPC (35 grs), 5.56 x45 NATO (28.5 grs), 6×45 (29 grs), 6 ARC (34 grs), 6.5 Grendel (35 grs), .224 Valkyrie (34.5 grs), and what do we get? For the cartridges with .378 case head, powder capacity is less than the 6mm MAX. For the cartridges with larger case heads, you get the same amount of powder or less than the 6mm MAX. The end result is that the 6mm MAX (35 grs) allows for a .378 mil-spec bolt face with full lug integrity and powder to push the heavies at useful velocities.

The 6mm MAX has unlocked the code on the .378 bolt face AR-15 cartridge. We were able to increase the OAL to 2.30 with the .350 Legend parent case, and magazine, which were originally designed for the AR-15, and function flawlessly. With the OAL set at 2.30 for all bullets 55 gr to 100 gr, we were able to keep bullet jump relatively consistent for the inherent accuracy across all bullet weights. We have been able to achieve 1 MOA accuracy with most bullet weights, and sub-MOA with premium target bullets.

BC Precision Ballistics has spent 3 years and thousands of hours in research and range time to get the 6mm MAX perfected. Our case is only slightly rebated for a well balanced cartridge maximizing capacity and 100% reliability. We designed the chamber for functionality in a repeater and for accuracy. Sometimes those two requirements conflict with each other as reliability requires loose tolerances, and accuracy requires tight tolerances. We consulted with many lifelong industry experts throughout the chamber/reamer design and listened to what they had to say. We utilize carbide reamers for our builds, and our tolerances are kept exact for predictable performance.

Wondering about accuracy? On Aug 6th, 2022, I competed with the 6mm MAX in F-Class with my local club the Central Texas Silhouette Association or CTSA. Full disclosure on me? I’m an old F-Open High Master. My normal competition gun is a .243 30” Bartlein barrel running 105 hybrids at 3050 fps with a stout load of H4831SC. The 6mm MAX is not a competitive F-Open cartridge by any stretch of the imagination, but I wanted to see an actual real world test of accuracy in the hot south Texas switching winds at 500 yards. I used a 24” Bartlein barreled hunting rig. This is the same bolt rifle pictured on this web site. It has 2600 rounds of testing down range, and is till holding sub-MOA with a load of H4895 tested to SAAMI standards of 53,000 psi. The load was 26.6 grs of H4895, and 90 gr Lapua Scenar-L at 2.30 OAL. This load was straight from our loading chart on this web site. After the 3rd relay my score was 568-6X. Nothing to write home about by F-Class standards, but in the world of hunting and rifle accuracy these rounds would have HARVESTED GAME."

Brian Cook






Im bring it up because I was critical of it after my initial read up on it, and I think I bummed my buddys trip, on it.... possibly unfairly.

To be fair I don't think its a bad cartridge, but it FEELs like a step backwards in terms of cost/performance.

Being based on the.350 it does have a capacity advantage over the 6x45, TCU, x47 etc. AND it dosent exert the bolt thrust@ =psi, or weaken the lugs like .43 face or larger cases do.

After that it seems like were kinda going backwards.
Even medium length hunting bullets will be shoved well down into the case to achieve the 2.3" coal, which is a little long. Tho since its suppose to use 350 mags that might not mater.

Very straight walls, and what looks like a sharp shoulder also strike me as possibly problematic, But my experience with those case types are in bolt guns previously chambered for a more tapered cartridge

MY major gripe tho, is that it dosent seem like it can offer a real world advantage over a 6x45 (etc) that exceeds the difficulties and possible problems caused by using a unique case and the design.
I ran a 6x47 which would get very close or better to the suggested velocities from its 24" barrel, but mine was a bolt gun loaded over 2.3" and to unknown pressures specs.

And i do want to add that I whole heartedly support any cartridge creation, and anyone who wants to use it, but when asked my personal opinion ......thats what youll get


Now my question is.... Am I off base on my assessment, and/or being overly critical?
 
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I don’t need one. WHY THE 6MM MAX covers it all. However, some will find it fills a niche for them. It is not the next wonder cartridge. It’s not going to do anything another won’t do as well.

I don’t get excited about new cartridges , and, haven’t for a long time. Similar performance in a different package. Deer aren’t anymore , or less, dead with the wife’s popular 6.5 Creedmoor than they are with some of the obscure stuff I use.
 
6mm Max cartridge was just brought to my attention by my FFL buddy.

This is from the website linked below.

"Why The 6mm MAX?​

The 6mm MAX is pressure tested to SAAMI standards of 55k psi. It is a brand new cartridge designed for the unmodified mil-spec .378 bolt face, and a full mass bolt carrier group. The 6mm MAX holds 35 grains of water capacity which ultimately determines the energy potential of the cartridge. In this case, 1750+Lbs of energy. Why is that so significant? The 6mm MAX can launch an 87 gr Berger VLD at 3009 fps from a 24” barrel. This produces 1749 lbs at the muzzle, 1504 lbs at 100 yards, 1093 lbs at 300 yards, 775 lbs at 500 yards, 533 lbs at 700 yards, and stays supersonic past 1000 yards. These ballistics are at standard atmospheric pressure and temperature.

Cartridge designers have struggled with 2.26 OAL, and having enough room for increased case capacity. Until recently, there hasn’t been a .378 case head cartridge available that has a 35 gr water capacity. This amount of water capacity is the engine that can power heavier, and high ballistics coefficient bullets up to 100 grs. The 6mm MAX can do this within the constraints of the AR-15, and function flawlessly. So the end result is that the 6mm MAX can push bullets 55 gr to 100 gr, and do it with the same 2.30 OAL. Some designs have emerged shorter and fatter to accommodate a bullet with better BC and enough powder for useful velocities. When comparing the water capacity of 24 Nosler (29 grs), 6.8 SPC (35 grs), 5.56 x45 NATO (28.5 grs), 6×45 (29 grs), 6 ARC (34 grs), 6.5 Grendel (35 grs), .224 Valkyrie (34.5 grs), and what do we get? For the cartridges with .378 case head, powder capacity is less than the 6mm MAX. For the cartridges with larger case heads, you get the same amount of powder or less than the 6mm MAX. The end result is that the 6mm MAX (35 grs) allows for a .378 mil-spec bolt face with full lug integrity and powder to push the heavies at useful velocities.

The 6mm MAX has unlocked the code on the .378 bolt face AR-15 cartridge. We were able to increase the OAL to 2.30 with the .350 Legend parent case, and magazine, which were originally designed for the AR-15, and function flawlessly. With the OAL set at 2.30 for all bullets 55 gr to 100 gr, we were able to keep bullet jump relatively consistent for the inherent accuracy across all bullet weights. We have been able to achieve 1 MOA accuracy with most bullet weights, and sub-MOA with premium target bullets.

BC Precision Ballistics has spent 3 years and thousands of hours in research and range time to get the 6mm MAX perfected. Our case is only slightly rebated for a well balanced cartridge maximizing capacity and 100% reliability. We designed the chamber for functionality in a repeater and for accuracy. Sometimes those two requirements conflict with each other as reliability requires loose tolerances, and accuracy requires tight tolerances. We consulted with many lifelong industry experts throughout the chamber/reamer design and listened to what they had to say. We utilize carbide reamers for our builds, and our tolerances are kept exact for predictable performance.

Wondering about accuracy? On Aug 6th, 2022, I competed with the 6mm MAX in F-Class with my local club the Central Texas Silhouette Association or CTSA. Full disclosure on me? I’m an old F-Open High Master. My normal competition gun is a .243 30” Bartlein barrel running 105 hybrids at 3050 fps with a stout load of H4831SC. The 6mm MAX is not a competitive F-Open cartridge by any stretch of the imagination, but I wanted to see an actual real world test of accuracy in the hot south Texas switching winds at 500 yards. I used a 24” Bartlein barreled hunting rig. This is the same bolt rifle pictured on this web site. It has 2600 rounds of testing down range, and is till holding sub-MOA with a load of H4895 tested to SAAMI standards of 53,000 psi. The load was 26.6 grs of H4895, and 90 gr Lapua Scenar-L at 2.30 OAL. This load was straight from our loading chart on this web site. After the 3rd relay my score was 568-6X. Nothing to write home about by F-Class standards, but in the world of hunting and rifle accuracy these rounds would have HARVESTED GAME."

Brian Cook






Im bring it up because I was critical of it after my initial read up on it, and I think I bummed my buddys trip, on it.... possibly unfairly.

To be fair I don't think its a bad cartridge, but it FEELs like a step backwards in terms of cost/performance.

Being based on the.350 it does have a capacity advantage over the 6x45, TCU, x47 etc. AND it dosent exert the bolt thrust@ =psi, or weaken the lugs like .43 face or larger cases do.

After that it seems like were kinda going backwards.
Even medium length hunting bullets will be shoved well down into the case to achieve the 2.3" coal, which is a little long. Tho since its suppose to use 350 mags that might not mater.

Very straight walls, and what looks like a sharp shoulder also strike me as possibly problematic, But my experience with those case types are in bolt guns previously chambered for a more tapered cartridge

MY major gripe tho, is that it dosent seem like it can offer a real world advantage over a 6x45 (etc) that exceeds the difficulties and possible problems caused by using a unique case and the design.
I ran a 6x47 which would get very close or better to the suggested velocities from its 24" barrel, but mine was a bolt gun loaded over 2.3" and to unknown pressures specs.

And i do want to add that I whole heartedly support any cartridge creation, and anyone who wants to use it, but when asked my personal opinion ......thats what youll get


Now my question is.... Am I off base on my assessment, and/or being overly critical?
I lament that it focuses on the 100gr> bullets BUT!!!!! IF it's feeding fine, I can think of a very real use for it.... the .243 wssm in an ar platform made for QUITE a varmint gun, and while the paper ballistics are going to yield to other cartridges, if a person can find brass and uppers easier and/or more cost effectively than other cartridges, out where we live? I'd say it would make quite a nice addition to our varmint rig stable, being able to take deer is a meh option because we already have quite a few other cartridges in the stable for that.... if it doesn't become a chore like some cartridges out there I could see the MAX picking up a niche following in the varmint crowds, with a few deer hunters mixed in, otherwise, I politely applaud the creation but will not miss it either if it blinks out.
 
I think it would be more interesting as a hunting or varmint cartridge than as a long range precision cartridge because of the case length so definitely competing more with the likes of 6x45 and 22 nosler than 6mm arc. I don't remember their user name but the designer of the cartridge is on the forum. There was a thread on here about it a couple years ago.

I used to have a 6x45. I was really excited about it initially but I had a pretty short honeymoon with it. My biggest gripe against 223 is that there was never a true heavy for caliber varmint bullet with a BC of over like .400. The 75 grain hornady bthp and eld, and the 77 gr sierra are good cheap long range fodder, but they are not designed for expansion and their terminal performance is pretty inconsistent. 6mm is not much better as most of the varmint bullets are like 80 grains and less with pretty poor BC. The 87 grain v max worked great though with a similar BC and muzzle velocity as what I get from the 77-75 grain 223 bullets. After seeing the results people are getting from the 77gr sierra TMK though I completely lost interest in a 6mm varmint gun, but I have not had a chance to try them for myself yet.
 
There was a thread on here about it a couple years ago.
Yes and the designer was stuck on the "all bullets loaded to the same length" like that's the greatest thing ever. Only issue is it doesn't really work IRL.
The 6mm Max misses the mark just a bit, by not really working with the high BC 100+ gr bullets.
 
Agree with most sentiments given. The bullet selection used to get the desired COAL doesn’t wow. How many grains of water are left when one stuffs a 100-109gr projectile into that case.

I dealt with this 10 years ago with the 6.8SPC trying to shove 130gr+ higher BC bullets. Too much powder space gets used up. Hence the reason there are projectiles designed with cavities in the base to not impede into the powder charge space as much, while maintaining COAL that works within the magazine.

Cavity Back Bullets
 
6mm Max cartridge was just brought to my attention by my FFL buddy.

This is from the website linked below.

"Why The 6mm MAX?​

The 6mm MAX is pressure tested to SAAMI standards of 55k psi. It is a brand new cartridge designed for the unmodified mil-spec .378 bolt face, and a full mass bolt carrier group. The 6mm MAX holds 35 grains of water capacity which ultimately determines the energy potential of the cartridge. In this case, 1750+Lbs of energy. Why is that so significant? The 6mm MAX can launch an 87 gr Berger VLD at 3009 fps from a 24” barrel. This produces 1749 lbs at the muzzle, 1504 lbs at 100 yards, 1093 lbs at 300 yards, 775 lbs at 500 yards, 533 lbs at 700 yards, and stays supersonic past 1000 yards. These ballistics are at standard atmospheric pressure and temperature.

Cartridge designers have struggled with 2.26 OAL, and having enough room for increased case capacity. Until recently, there hasn’t been a .378 case head cartridge available that has a 35 gr water capacity. This amount of water capacity is the engine that can power heavier, and high ballistics coefficient bullets up to 100 grs. The 6mm MAX can do this within the constraints of the AR-15, and function flawlessly. So the end result is that the 6mm MAX can push bullets 55 gr to 100 gr, and do it with the same 2.30 OAL. Some designs have emerged shorter and fatter to accommodate a bullet with better BC and enough powder for useful velocities. When comparing the water capacity of 24 Nosler (29 grs), 6.8 SPC (35 grs), 5.56 x45 NATO (28.5 grs), 6×45 (29 grs), 6 ARC (34 grs), 6.5 Grendel (35 grs), .224 Valkyrie (34.5 grs), and what do we get? For the cartridges with .378 case head, powder capacity is less than the 6mm MAX. For the cartridges with larger case heads, you get the same amount of powder or less than the 6mm MAX. The end result is that the 6mm MAX (35 grs) allows for a .378 mil-spec bolt face with full lug integrity and powder to push the heavies at useful velocities.

The 6mm MAX has unlocked the code on the .378 bolt face AR-15 cartridge. We were able to increase the OAL to 2.30 with the .350 Legend parent case, and magazine, which were originally designed for the AR-15, and function flawlessly. With the OAL set at 2.30 for all bullets 55 gr to 100 gr, we were able to keep bullet jump relatively consistent for the inherent accuracy across all bullet weights. We have been able to achieve 1 MOA accuracy with most bullet weights, and sub-MOA with premium target bullets.

BC Precision Ballistics has spent 3 years and thousands of hours in research and range time to get the 6mm MAX perfected. Our case is only slightly rebated for a well balanced cartridge maximizing capacity and 100% reliability. We designed the chamber for functionality in a repeater and for accuracy. Sometimes those two requirements conflict with each other as reliability requires loose tolerances, and accuracy requires tight tolerances. We consulted with many lifelong industry experts throughout the chamber/reamer design and listened to what they had to say. We utilize carbide reamers for our builds, and our tolerances are kept exact for predictable performance.

Wondering about accuracy? On Aug 6th, 2022, I competed with the 6mm MAX in F-Class with my local club the Central Texas Silhouette Association or CTSA. Full disclosure on me? I’m an old F-Open High Master. My normal competition gun is a .243 30” Bartlein barrel running 105 hybrids at 3050 fps with a stout load of H4831SC. The 6mm MAX is not a competitive F-Open cartridge by any stretch of the imagination, but I wanted to see an actual real world test of accuracy in the hot south Texas switching winds at 500 yards. I used a 24” Bartlein barreled hunting rig. This is the same bolt rifle pictured on this web site. It has 2600 rounds of testing down range, and is till holding sub-MOA with a load of H4895 tested to SAAMI standards of 53,000 psi. The load was 26.6 grs of H4895, and 90 gr Lapua Scenar-L at 2.30 OAL. This load was straight from our loading chart on this web site. After the 3rd relay my score was 568-6X. Nothing to write home about by F-Class standards, but in the world of hunting and rifle accuracy these rounds would have HARVESTED GAME."

Brian Cook






Im bring it up because I was critical of it after my initial read up on it, and I think I bummed my buddys trip, on it.... possibly unfairly.

To be fair I don't think its a bad cartridge, but it FEELs like a step backwards in terms of cost/performance.

Being based on the.350 it does have a capacity advantage over the 6x45, TCU, x47 etc. AND it dosent exert the bolt thrust@ =psi, or weaken the lugs like .43 face or larger cases do.

After that it seems like were kinda going backwards.
Even medium length hunting bullets will be shoved well down into the case to achieve the 2.3" coal, which is a little long. Tho since its suppose to use 350 mags that might not mater.

Very straight walls, and what looks like a sharp shoulder also strike me as possibly problematic, But my experience with those case types are in bolt guns previously chambered for a more tapered cartridge

MY major gripe tho, is that it dosent seem like it can offer a real world advantage over a 6x45 (etc) that exceeds the difficulties and possible problems caused by using a unique case and the design.
I ran a 6x47 which would get very close or better to the suggested velocities from its 24" barrel, but mine was a bolt gun loaded over 2.3" and to unknown pressures specs.

And i do want to add that I whole heartedly support any cartridge creation, and anyone who wants to use it, but when asked my personal opinion ......thats what youll get


Now my question is.... Am I off base on my assessment, and/or being overly critical?
Your not off base at all. New carriages. New electronic stuff on PU trucks. Got to keep the advertising people busy. Like say the 30 AR or the .243 short. I mean 6mmARC ECT. If it brings young people in then go for it. Like the Swift young woman and the NFL. Older and wise people don't care but younger do. And they spend plenty. Good reading ,Thanks
 
The 6mm Max misses the mark just a bit, by not really working with the high BC 100+ gr bullets.

Depends on what you want it for. Varmint guys or deer hunters won't care about 108 eld's because that's not what they want to load in it anyway. I'm sure the segment of people that want a proprietary wildcat 6mm in an AR that only shoots sub 100 grain bullets exists but is a pretty small market for sure.
 
And they spend plenty.

Anything that brings satisfaction and enjoyment is money well spent. I'm sure most people would think most of my gun collection is junk. I remember meeting a local gun guy that wanted to make a trade for a gun that I had on armslist. He invited me over to look through his collection of like 50 guns to find something to trade for and there was not a single thing there that I really wanted. Turns out our venn diagrams of interest in firearms didn't really overlap anywhere.
 
There is no replacement for displacement. It's great that there are lots of new cartridge's being developed for the AR platform but the problem is still the size of the platform. Remington should bring back the 6mm Remington with a new wiz bang name and stuff it into the AR-10 platform. It would knock the snot out of all these 6mm cartridges designed for the AR-15.

I'm just reminiscing now about the days afield knocking over big fat would chucks at incredible distances with the 6mm Remington. I'll shut up now!!
 
There is no replacement for displacement. It's great that there are lots of new cartridge's being developed for the AR platform but the problem is still the size of the platform. Remington should bring back the 6mm Remington with a new wiz bang name and stuff it into the AR-10 platform. It would knock the snot out of all these 6mm cartridges designed for the AR-15.

I'm just reminiscing now about the days afield knocking over big fat would chucks at incredible distances with the 6mm Remington. I'll shut up now!!

What you are describing is called 6mm creedmoor and you can get it in an AR10. I'm not interested in AR10's because of size and weight but some people love them dearly.
 
This is the same as what the 6.8 SPC II velocities are with a 90gr TNT out of a 20" barrel. Would be curious to see apples to apples both being 24" barrels, I would guess the 6.8SPC 90gr TNT would be around 3,050fps.

No doubt the 6mm would have the BC advantage, but nonetheless; not earthshaking.
 
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This is the same as what the 6.8 SPC II velocities are with a 90gr TNT out of a 20" barrel. Would be curious to see apples to apples both being 24" barrels, I would guess the 6.8SPC 90gr TNT would be around 3,050fps.

No doubt the 6mm would have the BC advantage, but nonetheless; not earthshaking.

You'll definitely see the difference in the wind. The elevation is just a different number of clicks. This is the 6.8 90 tnt vs the 87 gr berger vld they have listed.

PerryHubbling Nov. 28, 2023 12.16 PM.jpg



Here is a great website for making quick comparisons

 
It sounds like a decent round for deer and hogs to me for an AR-15 platform. I am not interested at shooting beyond 4-500 yards anymore but I am a small market. It is just a little more than a .223. I like the idea of a standard bolt and magazines. It is not a dedicated target round but it does give you more range and flatter trajectory than some other AR cartridges. But not much different than some others either so It's a crowded market.
 
I’m getting away from the AR 15 platform just because I prefer a bolt action so this isn’t for me and I also don’t think your being to critical of yet another new cartridge that spilts hairs against the older slightly this time cartridge imho the juice isn’t worth the squeeze
 
Depends on what you want it for. Varmint guys or deer hunters won't care about 108 eld's because that's not what they want to load in it anyway. I'm sure the segment of people that want a proprietary wildcat 6mm in an AR that only shoots sub 100 grain bullets exists but is a pretty small market for sure.
It's like deja vu all over again.
Seems like we've been down this road before where one 6mm cartridge shoots all the available bullets and another that shoots the lighter of them a little faster but can't do the heavy ones.
Of course there will always be guys that'll chase 25 fps.
What you are describing is called 6mm creedmoor and you can get it in an AR10. I'm not interested in AR10's because of size and weight but some people love them dearly.
Different strokes I'd rather add a pound in the receiver and shoot my 20" 6 creed AR10 than hang 4" of barrel weight and move my suppressor out that same 4".
 
IDK but for hunting I would like a Ruger SFAR in 243 Win. shooting a 90 gr. Accubond. That would be a nice performing 24 cal autoloader. SFAR equals same weight as AR15, but just bigger mags.
 
IDK but for hunting I would like a Ruger SFAR in 243 Win. shooting a 90 gr. Accubond. That would be a nice performing 24 cal autoloader. SFAR equals same weight as AR15, but just bigger mags.
I wanted so much to like this.... but I want 95 vld, 95 btip, 100 ph, 103 eld.... not necessarily in that order.... otherwise, you have my vote!
 
IDK but for hunting I would like a Ruger SFAR in 243 Win. shooting a 90 gr. Accubond. That would be a nice performing 24 cal autoloader. SFAR equals same weight as AR15, but just bigger mags.
I think you'll be more likely to get it in 6mm Creed, but IMHO there's so little difference below 100gr it's really close.
 
Yes.... but I think only the ph wouldn't sponge up so much case capacity....and I could just grab a 6.5 Grendel for that "trade-off" game.....mind you I haven't seen internal measurements on mags for SFAR....
They are dpms pattern ar10 mags as far as I know. Even a 90 gr. accubond will drop a trophy deer at 300 yds. Watched Ron Spomer do it on youtube the other day
 
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