The beginners quest.

[Warren]

When i first came to THR I was seriously looking at a revo for carry, it had to be light and powerful. After reading the responses to my first thread I was convinced that the 325PD was not actually a good choice so I started looking around at other options. It had to be light because of my injuries and powerfull enough to stop a goblin.

I looked and I handled and I reasearched. Though I have not shot yet I have eliminated several guns from consideration. These would be Glocks and any other double-wide grip guns that may be out there.

Yesterday my doc and I talked about it and he said I have come far enough along to not have to worry about the weight issue so much.

****As an aside: my doc is not a gun guy, though not anti-gun, he asked me "So you're going to carry a .457 magnum?"

It took a couple of seconds for me to shake the visual out of my head and I replied " Umm, I'll have to have some special pants made if I do."*****



So that meant I was able to expand my search into steel guns.

I was looking in the case, my local does not have a lot of product but their staffers seem very knowledgeable, and the guy said to me. "How about a 1911?"

"Me?, I'm a beginner."


"It's a simple gun"

"Well, okay I'll give it a try."


He put it in my hand and it fit perfectly. Not almost, not well, I could get used to it. But perfect. Even better than the SW revolvers I was handling before.

It also had excellent balance and I could operate it with ease. The trigger was nice, not as nice as another that they have but nice.

Turns out that it is their Mil-Spec version 1911 rental made by SA. After that he put a another SA that is on consignment in my greedy paw and that thing had had a T-job done on it and was very nice. A bit short for me and the wrong finish, alas.

So I've got both tax money and accident settlement money coming so I will join the range so I can shoot a lot and get a lot of different guns fired but I think I have narrowed it down to the 1911.

The shop guy is aggressively trying not to selll me a really expensive firearm he is urging me to go with either the SA Mil_Spec or the G.I. .45 because SA has, he says, the best 1911 warranty in the business.

He also says to buy a basic gun and then upgrade it on my schedule and get only what I want when I want it.


The only thing I did not like was that I can't reach the slide release without turning the gun at an angle. He says that this happens to a lot of guys. But it is still annoying.


So if I am going to continue in this direction I need some advice.


What books or videos would you recommend for doing research?

If thumbed through the Gun Digest 1911 guide it looks good. I know about the 1911 forum which I may join. Is there anything else out there?

Thank you very much.


I'm.

 

[VaughnT]

Well, the 1911forum is definitely an excellent source for information on that particular platform, which is my favorite. The best thing, though, is what you've already decided on; join the range and rent lots of different guns. Only after you've shot a few different calibers in different frame styles will you know what really works for you.

I definitely agree with your salesman's position on selling a bottom-line pistol. I went the other route and regret having done so. Now I have a box-stock Colt 1991 that is customized by Ted Yost, and I couldn't be happier. It has everything I want and nothing I don't.

The Browning HiPower is also an excellent choice. Being light and well-balanced, the 9mm pistol is considered the best pistol in that caliber....and mine shoots like a dream.

Best advice? Hunker down here and read some. You're more than welcome around this fire and you're sure to get a lot of answers to you questions.

And thanks for asking for aid. We're always glad to help.

 

[Quintin Likely]

The shooting a lot of different ones before you buy is probably the best bet so far. In regards to the slide release, on a 1911, the slide lock is typically tripped with the thumb of your left hand (I'm assuming you're right handed) as you slam the magazine home. I can't manipulate the lock on any of my 1911s without shifting my firing grip, and unless you've got NBA basketball sized hands, I don't think most other people can either.

There's a whole bunch of different choices out there, from plain jane GI spec versions to "loaded" models with Novak pattern or adjustible sights, beavertail grip safeties, fancy finishes, etc. Before anything else, shoot as many as you can and buy whatever feels most comfortable to you.

Edited to add:

I dunno what part of the country you call home, but if it happens to be somewhere around south western Georgia, Columbus area, shoot me a PM and I'll bring my Springer and NRM Colt out to burn some powder with.

 

[Black Majik]

*ahem*

Actually, the 325PD would be a great carry gun. Its meant to shoot .45 ACP rounds.

The 325PD and 329PD are different revolvers.

On your revolver thread, you stated that you were looking into the 329pd, which is meant to shoot .44 magnums.

Theres a pretty big difference in recoil between the two.


Also, the doc. must definitely not be a gun guy since there is no .457 magnum


Anyways. The 1911 is a great platform to start off with. It shoots also shoots the .45 ACP round, like the 325PD you meantioned in your post.

Manual safety, clean single action trigger, very comfortable ergonomics. Good choice.


Lastly, may I suggest instead of the SA milspec to spend a little more for the NRM Colt Governments? The New Rollmark Colts have a nicer fit and finish. Beautiful bluing.

 

[Josey]

I have tried a bunch of semi-auto pistols. I own and will keep three. A Colt 1911, a Browning Hi-Power and a Radom Hi-Power from WWII. They do fit great. I hate Springfield Armory pistols. The ones I have bought have been POJ. I will never waste my money on SA again. I suggest you look for a Beretta Vertec. If you want a nice pair of 45s, look at a Rock Island full size and a commander compact. You could buy a pair for what a new S&W SW1911 would cost.

 

[cerberus]

1911

If I were going to buy just one 1911 it would be the Kimber Tac Pro II this 4 inch bbl.ed gun is easy to carry and shoots very good.

 

[Warren]

to Black MajiK

D'OH! That's what I meant.

I did not see the 325PD on the California DOJ approved list so I dropped it from consideration.

Plus, now that I've held the 1911 I think I'm hooked. Not that that has happened to any of y'all.


And there is a .457 magnum rifle.....which would require special trousers


I am really looking at the G.I. .45 that is a beautiful looking gun.

 

[Warren]

thank you all for your comments

Quentin, I am in the sheeple's republic of caliparinoia, where people are not trusted with the full slate of options, so I appreciate the offer but must decline on account of distance.


Josey, did not SA make good on their warranty?



Vaughn, so these customizers need not start out with a higher end gun?

Aardvark, I'll look at Kimber. Thanks.

 

[Dr.Who]

Here to Learn...

First let me say that I have 2 1911's Colts, Ruger, Colt, and Smith Revolvers. I use them regularly in target and competition events. If I could get a CCW permit in this state, my carry pistol would be a Glock 17 (9mm)(second Choice an XD-9). A few reasons: First, because a carry pistol is subject to elements during the day which include body sweat, clothing lint when conceled, the glock material is less likely to cause a failure due to moisture sweat or corrosion. Second the higher round count (10 or higher) that can be carried in one mag/clip. Third, due to the material of the gun, I'm not worried about it getting wacked on the side and causes damge or scratches. Fourth, fits my hand just as well as the 1911. The Glock is a touch wider, however being a 9MM, it is less than a 45acp. You should try to hold/shoot both. Fifth, If the gun was used during protection of myself or family member, the law will confiscate the gun while they sort out the event. This would be to see if the shooting was justified or you followed the law. My understanding; it depends on the state if you will get the gun back. To me, replacing a $450 gun is easier pill to swallow than a $1,250 Kimber. (however that would be the least of the worries at that time) Sixth, I have never had a failure to feed in my glock, it has a natural Point of Aim in my hand, which translates to quick target alignment without real effort in watching the sights. (granted this happens with practice, it just to seem to take less to get use to the hold on the Glock). Seventh, the 9mm round has low recoil which allows me to bring the gun to bare quickly for a followup shot, double tap. Eighth, The overall weight is lite comparied to others.

Do not get me wrong, I am not bashing Colt, Ruger, or Smiths. I have them, use them, and like them. To me each tool has its place. A carry pistol needs to be one that is reliable, quick and easy to use. I know that others will say the 9mm is a wimp round and a 45 is better due to size of the hole. Just keep in mind that a proplery place smaller caliber (.22, .380, .32) can do just as must damage as a improperly placed large round.

As for the Mag and slide lock relase on the Glock it can be extented. I did extend the slide lock release but not the mag release. I did not want to accidently press it during discharge and loose my mag.

Best advise is to do what you are doing. Ask questions. Figure out what your primary purpose, you wish to use the gun for, Protection of Home, CCW, Competion, Collection, etc... Ask to try or rent different guns your interested in and shoot them. Pick the Tool that fits your needs.

Enjoy....

 

[Warren]

Dr. Who

Great info, thanks.

 

[Josey]

SA Warranty? The pistols were shipped back and forth multiple times. They were just not functional. SA kept replacing bad parts with more bad parts. I gave up and traded both SA 1911s off. I made full disclosure to the dealer. He held his finger to his lips and I quote, "Shhhhh!"

 

[Amish_Bill]

Some here are big fans of The Beauty of Blueing.
I think it's fine for Dress-Up guns, but bad for carry guns.

If you are really going to carry this, here are a few keywords to look for:
Alloy
Polymer
Stainless

The hassle and annoyance of cleaning your carry piece several times a week to keep it from getting rusty will get old fast. We have the technology to make guns that are much more corrosion resistant than the mirror-polished, blued guns of my Father's and Grandfather's day.

Parkerization is a good, durable finish that holds protective oil well, but it's still not in the same class as Stainless, Alloy and Polymer parts. Don't get me wrong - I'd take it in a minute over a Blued gun if those were my only choices.

Happy Shopping!

 

[jade]

The only thing I did not like was that I can't reach the slide release without turning the gun at an angle. He says that this happens to a lot of guys. But it is still annoying.

One of my favorite things about the 1911 is that it is very customizable. I had the same problem, so I replaced the slide release with an extended slide release. No more problems. Unfortunetly, that made it a little harder to draw from my holster, but I'm still working on that. Maybe I'll just have to find a new holster.

 

[Warren]

Excellent info, thank you.

Josey, Sorry to hear that. Do you own those RIA models? If soo how do they shoot?


Amish, I was going to go blue but I will think it over a little harder.


Jade, All right! It's like Viagra for the thumb!

 

[dandean316]

If you want a 1911, check out a bare bones Colt 1991. They will generally hold up better and if you don't like, the resale on them are quite good.

Fifth, If the gun was used during protection of myself or family member, the law will confiscate the gun while they sort out the event. This would be to see if the shooting was justified or you followed the law. My understanding; it depends on the state if you will get the gun back. To me, replacing a $450 gun is easier pill to swallow than a $1,250 Kimber. (however that would be the least of the worries at that time)

This one gets brought up now and again. If you are involved in a shooting, I doubt you will head to the range and shoot much for quite a while afterwords. Even shooting a POS bad guy, it's still a tramatic experience. For a carry gun - GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT/NEED. Don't ever skimp in this area.

 

[Josey]

I own Colt 1911 and 1991 45s. Full size. I also CCW a Browning Hi-Power in 9MM hi-cap. My other 9MM is the Polish Radom 9MM from WWII. I have put some RIA 1911s through their paces. I have even shot pins with them and a Llama 45. They are cheap and they work. The basic full size RIA is as close to a Mil-Spec as you are going to come. They work fine for me. I intend to purchase a RIA in 38 Super, a compact in 45 and a mini Llama in 45.

 

[Quintin Likely]

Quentin, I am in the sheeple's republic of caliparinoia, where people are not trusted with the full slate of options, so I appreciate the offer but must decline on account of distance.

Dang nabbit, us Americans are waiting for people to free themselves from the People's Republik of California man!

Anywho, I'm a big advocate of Colt's NRM 1991 series. Very nicely finished, priced right, mine has been great out the box with whatever I've ran through it.

 

[Warren]

Quintin: I have reasons for staying in Cal for now. So I accept the consequences of choosing to stay in the stupidist state in the Union.

 

[Warren]

Update

I have decided that for my first handgun I am going to steer away from the 1911 afterall and go to the XD9.

I have yet to shoot either but my "Big Family Day at the Range" is coming up soon and I will shoot everything they have but I do not think anything will change.

I have made this decision due to the fact that the XD is a simpler weapon to operate, clean and maintain. It is also lighter has a higher mag cap (and with XD40 mags even more) and the ammo is cheaper meaning I can shoot more and thus get more practice. So while the 1911 fits far better in my hand the other issues outweigh that one thing.

This is not to say I will not buy a 1911, I will add one of the Grand Old Men to my collection but just not yet.


Thank you everybody for your input and advice.

I'm

 

[joegerardi]

One last consideration:
Don't exclude the SIG series of pistols. If you can, look at the P228. I have smaller hands and the 228 fits me beautifully. I can reach the decocker whilst in full grip, and the slide release is just a smidgen away from the same. It is available with 13 round regular-capacity preban mags, or 10 round Klintoons for the time being, until the AWB sunsets.

SIG is known for their high quality, accurate pistols, and you can't go wrong with them. If you have the opportunity during your range day, try one.

Good luck!

..Joe

 

[Baba Louie]

I_Am...
XD9 huh? 3" or 4"? Stainless or black? Standard sights or upgrade?
Here in Las Vegas a 3" or 4" black would run ya about $440 plus tax or so. Stainless slightly higher. Just cause I'm nosy, what's a ballpark number for a CA purchase? I remember when they were the new HS2000 from Croatia and could be had for $269 (about 3 years ago).
At only 25 oz empty you'll appreciate the difference between it and a 39 oz 1911.
Get a couple of spare magazines (I was gonna tell you that if you did buy the 1911... don't scrimp on the magazines for a 45 auto) and buy your 9MM by the 500 lot for plinking. See what it likes in way of self defense loads.
You've heard it before (or read it) but get a good holster (or two or three) and a good belt... I'll repeat the good belt part... get a good belt.
Take a class or two for CCW, even if you'll never get a license to carry concealed. Knowing the laws and the situations for use of lethal force and getting some practice time with an instructor or two is always money and time well spent I'd opine.
Let us know how it shoots.
Start saving for that COLT 1911. Or (at the other end of the spectrum) if you want to be weird and cheap, find a Norinco 1911 that hasn't been abused or tweaked, if you dare. But when you do get the 45 auto, get good magazines to feed it.

 

[BluesBear]

The only thing I did not like was that I can't reach the slide release without turning the gun at an angle.

IF you shoot to slide lock. There are several ways to avoid using the slide stop altogether.

First is to "slingshot" the slide. That is grab it by the cocking serrations, pull back slightly and let 'er fly. Often easier than thumbing down the slide stop.

Second is to use the thumb of your support to activate the slide stop after you have inserted a fresh magazine and are resuming your two-handed grip. Or even if only using one hand. I find it quite easy, and natural, to slam the magazine hom with the palm/heel of my hand and then simply roll the hand upwards and thumb the stop. The 1911 pattern slide stop is in the perfect position for your off hand.


As to the decision between the XD or the 1911, rent both first and be sure to shoot each one at least 100 rounds. Remember in a life or death case you might have wet hands. Put a wet washcloth in a ziplock bag and shoot with your hands wet. (Take a hand towel along, too.) Or put a few drops of gun oil on your hands. See which one you can keep control of better. Shoot with each hand as well as with both. Remember you can change the grips on a 1911.
Have two extra magazines for each. Practice reloading, see which one seems more natural to you.

THEN make your final decision. If you don't you will always wonder if you might have been better off with the other one.
Who knows, you might have to buy both!
Either way you can't go wrong.

 

[Warren]

Joe G, the range does not have Sigs for rent, It's all Glocks, Rugers, and SA in the case for autos.

Baba, 4", black with some XD40 mags. I have the holster figured out. I'll be going with a SmartCarry at first, if that does not work out I will try other things.


Bluesy, I plan on shootin whatever they have . Even if I have no plans to buy it now. Great idea about the wet hand. Thanks.

 

[Warren]

I'm resurrecting this thread as I think some recent experiences belong here. I am still on the beginner''s path and will be for a long while.

Some updates, after all of what I posted I ended up with a GLOCK 26 which I later traded in on a SIG P220. Wierd how things work out.

Yesterday I went to the range to shoot some new calibers. I chose .45 Colt and .38 special.

(All shooting was on an indoor range at 21' on a B24 target (and yes I know this isn't training I'm just doing familiarization now))

I'm not sure if I got an accurate idea of what .45 Colt is like as the only rounds they use for rentals is this CCI cowboy stuff. And the only gun in that round is a Uberti SA.

So after I figured out the sights I was able to put most of the shots in the 10 and 9 rings but after only 50 rounds the checkered grip on the gun was irritating my hand something fierce.

Next I went to .38 sp out of a Ruger SP 101 and that was some of the worst shooting I have ever done. Y'all who can shoot a snubby well certainly have my respect. I was all over the target, I only punched about 15 out of 50 in the ten ring with the rest scattered about the target.

One odd thing was that I did better shooting the thing DA with it's uberheavy trigger then SA. I was puzzled as were the countermen when I related it to them.


I was going to leave a that point then I decided what the hell I'd do 50 through the rental 1911 a basic Springer 1911A1 that has been in the rental case for as long as I have been going there which is 10 plus years and who knows when it actually went into the case. So it could have been in there 14-15+ years. It is also one of the more popualr rentals, after the GLOCKs.

So 48 out of 50 (Magtech bluebox ammo) in the 9 or 10 rings with one 8 (right on the nine line) and an oddball in lower 7. That gun just goes and goes and goes.

Imagine all the abuse that gun has received over it's career, all the crappy ammo it has had to digest, and the cursory cleaning and maintainence given it by the various gun shop boys that have worked the counter. Yet it is probably one of the most accurate guns in the rental case, I'm sure the .22s would beat it but for guns in fighting calibers it has to be in the top 2 or 3. And yes, there are now SIGs in the case.

Just an amazing pistol, I've offered to buy it but they won't sell. I developed an unnatural attraction to that 1911 I may start stalking it.

Am I wierd for wanting that particular gun? It would be like buying a car with over 200k miles on it with 7-8 different owners. Or picking a wife at the Mustang Ranch.

Also when holding a new springer TRP I decided that I cannot abide checkering on a grip, finger grooves are okay and plain 'n smooth is okay but no damn checkering!

 

[evan price]

Hmm, when I bought my Jeep it had 208,000 on her. As far as Mustang Ranch, at least you'd know she was "experienced" as Hendrix says.

If the price was right, who cares? Clean it, lube it, replace a few minor parts, it's good to go a million rounds.