The black powder cartridge weapons in "Hostiles".

[RWMC]

I went and saw the movie " Hostiles" in Ames Iowa tonight. There was a nice selection of black powder cartridge weapons used in the movie. Actor Christian Bale carried an1873 Colt single action Army revolver and an 1873 Winchester repeating rifle. Since he played the part of a captain in the 2nd Cavalry, and since officers could use their own personal weapons, the Winchester would have been spot-on; as was the use of a Spencer carbine by another actor who played the part of a fresh-from West Point Lieutenant. The regular troopers in the movie carried the Springfield trapdoor carbine and the Colt S.A.A. Revolver. Another weapon I saw used in the movie was a Winchester model 1886 lever action rifle. The troopers also carried the correct 1880 US Army field knife.

All in all , it was a great movie, especially since it used correct models of black powder cartridge weapons & correct military uniforms of the U.S. cavalry for that time period of our nations history.

 

[armoredman]

Nice that they took the time to do it right.

 

[Jim Watson]

use of a Spencer carbine by another actor who played the part of a fresh-from West Point Lieutenant. used in the movie was a Winchester model 1886 lever action rifle.

That is kind of a stretch, isn't it? If later than 1886, that Spencer was over 10 years obsolete, the 7th having exchanged its Spencers for Springfields in time for LBH. Maybe that was all a junior Lieutenant could afford.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The IMFDb Internet Movie Firearms Database article on "Hostiles" has stills and positive IDs on four guns (so far).
•1 Single Action Army "Cavalry"
•2 Single Action Army "Civilian"
•3 Winchester 1873
•4 Sharps 1859 Carbine
But it is an beginning article, and expansion is dependent on having postable photos from the movie shoeing the guns.
I expect it will be added to.

I haven't seen the movie myself, but the reviews have been good.

 

[CraigC]

Thoroughly enjoyed the movie but I wouldn't take the kids to see it. I'll definitely get it on DVD.

Actor Christian Bale carried an1873 Colt single action Army revolver...

Actually he carried four of them.

 

[eastbank]

the 86 would have been would have been made at the end of the indian wars, I think the wounded knee fight in 91 was about the last and that one was very one sided and maybe not needed. eastbasnk.

 

[RWMC]

That is kind of a stretch, isn't it? If later than 1886, that Spencer was over 10 years obsolete, the 7th having exchanged its Spencers for Springfields in time for LBH. Maybe that was all a junior Lieutenant could afford.

That is kind of a stretch, isn't it? If later than 1886, that Spencer was over 10 years obsolete, the 7th having exchanged its Spencers for Springfields in time for LBH. Maybe that was all a junior Lieutenant could afford.

The timeframe of the movie was 1892. Maybe it was a situation where that the Spencer had served his father well during the Civil War, and so if it was good enough for dad, then it's good enough for me. Who knows. But since the Spencer was already an approved US cavalry repeating weapon, ( although now regarded as like you said earlier, obsolete ) and the Winchester was still considered a civilian weapon, The lieutenant may have figured he was " one up " over the regular trooper with his repeating Spencer.

 

[RWMC]

Thoroughly enjoyed the movie but I wouldn't take the kids to see it. I'll definitely get it on DVD.



Actually he carried four of them.

I agree that it is not one to take the kids along for them to see.
I guess that I missed the other 3 Colts. I only saw Mr. Bale carry and use one at a time.

 

[CraigC]

One on his hip, one at the small of his back and two in pommel holsters.

 

[RWMC]

the 86 would have been would have been made at the end of the indian wars, I think the wounded knee fight in 91 was about the last and that one was very one sided and maybe not needed. eastbasnk.

Even though the Indian wars were "officially" over after Wounded Knee, there very well could have been small bands of renegades, ( like in this movie ) who were not yet ready to call it quits; still full of fight and hatred, roaming the hills and reeking havoc on anyone they may come across. These types of small scraps may have been down-played by the media at that time, so as to convince folks going west that things are now all safe and that the Indians had now been pacified by force, and we're no longer considered "hostile".

 

[RWMC]

One on his hip, one at the small of his back and two in pommel holsters.

I may have to go watch the movie again just pay closer attention this time to the weaponry! That is a good excuse, right?

 

[.455_Hunter]

The concept that the Indian Wars ended in 1891 is hogwash. Isolated military actions continued for nearly 30 years, including a MOH being awarded for an engagement in 1898.

I do approve of "firearms correct" movies, especially after years of the crap coming out of Hollywood with everybody armed with 1892 and 1894 Winchesters for even immediate post-Civil War period films.

 

[Armored farmer]

Youngest son and i saw Hostiles. We very much liked it. Very much satisfied my expectations. Pretty accurate portrayal of firearms of the period i thought.
Definately satisfied my 'western' interest.
Mrs farmer would not have liked the opening scenes though.
Ill leave it at that.
Good movie.

 

[Jim Watson]

Four cattige revolvers sounds excessive and expensive. Maybe his Daddy carried multiple cap n ball in the War Between the States.
I once read that cavalrymen of the area thought 20 carbine and 18 revolver rounds was a plenty.

I knew an old guy who bought a Spencer from the farmer whose woods he hunted in the 1950s. $10 because he couldn't get ammo any more. Not cataloged in 1939 even.


Found my 1901 Sears catalog. They had all calibers of Spencer ammo, .56-56, .56-52, .56-50, even .56-46. $1.90 a hundred. They still had the guns, too; Spencer carbine $3.65 with 25 rounds, even the Palmer bolt action for $2.70 with 20 rounds. A Sharps conversion was $2.90 with 20 rounds .50-70 but more ammo was $2.83 a hundred.
By way of comparison, a new Winchester or Marlin lever action was $10 and up.

 

[RWMC]

One on his hip, one at the small of his back and two in pommel holsters.

I stand corrected, CraigC. After reviewing some of the trailers for the movie, I did see the four revolvers that you spoke of; one in his hip holster, one in a holster that it is slung over his shoulder like a carbine sling, and the two that are in pommel holsters on his saddle. Good eyes for detail CraigC!

 

[Armored farmer]

Of course, now I'm on gunbroker looking at 1873 SAA Cavalry Models.

 

[Armored farmer]

I stand corrected, CraigC. After reviewing some of the trailers for the movie, I did see the four revolvers that you spoke of; one in his hip holster, one in a holster that it is slung over his shoulder like a carbine sling, and the two that are in pommel holsters on his saddle. Good eyes for detail CraigC!

Oh, dont brag on him. @CraigC was eyeballin' the holsters.

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

Of course, now I'm on gunbroker looking at 1873 SAA Cavalry Models.

I've already got mine!



If I can make it into town I'm going to go watch it, if only to see if I can spot Christian Bale's lips moving when he talks.
Use of 1859 sharp's carbines in 1892 by active duty Cavalry troops sounds odd to me though.

JT

 

[RWMC]

The concept that the Indian Wars ended in 1891 is hogwash. Isolated military actions continued for nearly 30 years, including a MOH being awarded for duty in 1898.

I do approve of "firearms correct" movies, especially after years of the crap coming out of Hollywood with everybody armed with 1892 and 1894 Winchester's.

You are exactly right. Private Oscar Burkard was awarded the Congressional medal of honor for bravery in action on October 5, 1898, during an uprising of the Chippewa Indians at Leech Lake in northren Minnesota. Just goes to show that the probably reality of an actual event similar to the story line like that in the movie "Hostiles" was a lot greater than what we ever imagined.

 

[Jim Watson]

Use of 1859 sharp's carbines in 1892 by active duty Cavalry troops sounds odd to me though.

Way too late. Were they at least cartridge conversions? A friend has one, unlined barrel but close to the maximum. About minute of Commanch. Horse included.

 

[eastbank]

please post proof that Indians war actions went on into the 1920,s, 30 years after wounded knee-1890. I don,t mean small upraisings or rebellions on resavationns because of real or not, bad treatment by government indian agents. wounded knee-12-29-1890, 12-30-1890 a clash with Indians, 1-1-1891 last full action, 10-5-1898 called a rebellion by the government. no actions listed after 1898. does that mean people were not killed by Indians or Indians were not killed by whites after 1898, no. but no actions by the army.

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

unlined barrel but close to the maximum. About minute of Commanch. Horse included.

LOL Jim on the barrel diameter.
I've owned two different lined barrel conversions (good bores in both) in the past and both were reasonably accurate with black loads.
They got moved on because I just didn't feel good about working the triggers.
Can't recall the first one, but my second one needed a fish scale to measure the trigger - about 15 lbs., and the action and lock had no problems.

When I saw your mention of 'Commanch. Horse', it brought back flashbacks of Miles Keough's mount at the Little Big Horn and the GSWs it suffered during the battle
and also memories of Sal Mineo in 'Tonka'.

JT

 

[forward observer]

If they were going to include some questionable choices for weapons given the late date, they could have included one of these which is probably little known by the general public, but much less questionable. Below are shots of both a Uberti Colt SAA and their Schofield model 3 along with a repro M1881 holster which could be used with either revolver by utilizing the appropriate punched out hole in the flap. The one shown would be a early type, with a small belt loop, but it would have revised to the type 4 in 1890 with loop enlarged to fit the woven Mills cartridge belt. The S & W Schofield was certainly still in service in 1892 and reported to have still been issued even as late as Spanish American war in 1898. The US Army purchased just over 8000 of these in comparison to about 30k of the Colts.

The Schofield had a lot of advantages over the Colt for loading from horse back. It could be broken open with one hand by pushing the barrel against the thigh, which in turn ejected all of the cartridges at once. All the time the other hand could continue to hold the reins of the horse. Then by simply tucking the barrel under the armpit of the hand holding the reins, the free hand could load the cylinder. After loading, once again the gun hand could lever the action closed against the thigh. With just a bit of practice both opening and closing could be done with a flick of the wrist.

Uberti Schofield with US stamps and facsimile inspector's cartouche in grips. Of course Uberti modified this reproduction with a longer cylinder capable of chambering the .45 Colt. The originals only chambered the shorter .45 S & W round


Same layout, but with a Uberti cavalry SAA having US stamps and also with facsimile inspector's cartouche in grips. This model has the correct bullseye ejector tab and with the non spring activated front screw holding the cylinder pin in place. The Colt could chamber both its proprietary cartridge and the shorter S & W round, which is one of the reasons, the Schofield was removed from service before the Colt.




Cheers

 

[.455_Hunter]

please post proof that Indians war actions went on into the 1920,s, 30 years after wounded knee-1890. I don,t mean small upraisings or rebellions on resavationns because of real or not, bad treatment by government indian agents. wounded knee-12-29-1890, 12-30-1890 a clash with Indians, 1-1-1891 last full action, 10-5-1898 called a rebellion by the government. no actions listed after 1898. does that mean people were not killed by Indians or Indians were not killed by whites after 1898, no. but no actions by the army.

Right, there were not any large scale actions, but that does not mean the conflicts were over. I would count any discharge of weapons by combat Army personnel at Indian targets on CONUS soil as being an encounter. I hate Wikipedia, but here is the listing of the 1918 fight involving the Army and the Yaquis in AZ.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bear_Valley

Was it big? No. Did it occur 26 years after Wounded Knee? Yes.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

The Schofield had a lot of advantages over the Colt for loading from horse back. It could be broken open with one hand by pushing the barrel against the thigh, which in turn ejected all of the cartridges at once. All the time the other hand could continue to hold the reins of the horse.

I thought they always charged with the reins held in their teeth. I seem to remember an old toothless cavalryman told me that!

I just picked up the bottom one in this picture from my FFL:

Armi San Marco Hartford for EMF NIB!
I like it a lot!!

I also popped for these on GB a while back:

Consecutive numbered ASM Hartford gunfighters.
One has been fired a few times the other is NIB.
Four clicks times three.