The Chamber Check - WHY?

[ctdonath]

You want a reason to check the chamber? My experience gave a dang good reason: checked the chamber - it wasn't there. Not the round, the whole dang chamber.

My carry gun is ALWAYS loaded. Period. Mag inserted, +1 in chamber. Period.
Went to a gun show. Cooperatively presented it for unloading and strapping, as all gun shows require. Discovered, much to my confusion and embarassment, that it had no barrel (and thus no chamber)! Turned out that: precisely because I "always" had it loaded, I assumed its condition - but this time was right after I had travelled by airplane with it, and had removed the barrel and checked it separately (if someone stole the suitcase, they would not have a working gun). Upon exhausted return home, I had failed to re-assemble the gun. As it was stored (without barrel) in its holster, I had neglected to check the chamber before putting it back on my hip. When I finally got around to proving it was unloaded, I discovered my mistake.

At least I found out under favorable (albeit embarassing) conditions. Woulda sucked if my life depended on "being certain" it was loaded.

We're human. We make mistakes. We check chambers to make sure mistakes weren't made.

Change your system, so you cannot have that mental lapse.

Stuff happens outside your system. Your system must have checks to ensure it is in the state you think it is in. If your system is not self-checking, things will eventually get out of sync. To stay safe, your system must have multiple layers of safety - not a single layer, no matter how certain you are of it.

 

[outlawgunslnger]

never take anything for granted, never assume anything. I have a small child so I make sure mine is safest around him

 

[Still 2 Many Choices!?]

Why chamber check?

To make sure what you,"know", matches reality !!! I carried my Glock all day with an empty chamber one day because I got careless, never again:banghead: !

 

[CAS700850]

Before I started carrying, I always thought the same thing. Why do that, if the gun has been in the holster since I loaded up? What's the point? Then came the job at the prosecutor's office and real carry. And I discovered that there were times when I had to unload and/or secure the weapon in a locker at a facility. Or times when i came home at night and practiced drawing from concealment. or times when I would show someone my hangun, and unload it first. Or times when I would go to the range and allow someone else to shoot my gun (if I could shoot theirs).

So, I got into a habit. Every morning, draw and check the gun so I was certain.

What's funny is that I keep a gun in my courtroom (secured, but accessible by my trusted bailiff). I was away for two days at a conference, and first thing I did this morning was chamber check the gun.

 

[roo_ster]

1. The pistol never left my custody and control. If it had, I would have checked it.

"Never" assumes a certainty that human nature, IMHO, precludes.

Anyone who is in charge of sending armed men and women into harms way must require that they do this or in my opinion that person is negligent.

Amen to that. Take care of your boys.

I worked it through, and discovered to my horror that I'd put gas in the car.

Oops.

Don't know if it'd be a big deal or not, but it seems to me I avoided potentially serious damage by taking an extra step that day

.
Gasoline in a diesel will cause damage. It won't spontaneously dis-assemble, however.

Your system must have checks to ensure it is in the state you think it is in. If your system is not self-checking, things will eventually get out of sync. To stay safe, your system must have multiple layers of safety - not a single layer, no matter how certain you are of it.

Good explanation and philosophy.

 

[Sinsaba]

I don't press check my weapon nearly as much to ensure that the gun is ready as to ensure that my mind is. When I took my CHP course the instructor said that complacency caused more gun related accidents than anything else. I check to remind myself that I am carrying a loaded weapon.

 

[gunsmith]

maybe your old school

my late father had guns and never cared about gun safety he always left his guns unloaded and easy to reach and I always played with them as a kid

I think we (as humans) learn more the longer we are around to learn from our mistkes and technology changes.

I carry my revolver loaded, I don't leave the hammer on an empty chamber
because it's a modern gun.

Modern gun instuctors always teach checking the chamber, I've taken a few courses over the years in different states.

my guess is sleuth is in his 50's or 60's and things were taught differently in those days...

CHP course the instructor said that complacency caused more gun related accidents than anything else.

Sinsaba, your instructor is very wise.

 

[Sleuth]

Some of your replys have me confused. If you were carrying a fully loaded gun, and removed both the magazine and the round in the chamber, where did the round from the chamber go, that it did not bring to your notice that your magazine (and thus your handgun) were not fully loaded?

Perhaps it's just that I 'keep my head in the game' when there are guns around. My total focus is on the gun and it's ammunition. I don't take phone calls, or talk about anything other than the gun/ammo. If the subect changes, I reload it, reholster it, and we move on.

Do I avocate less (or no) chamber checking for you? NO
Do I suggest that this kind of total focus is needed when guns are out of the holster? Yes

Do as you wish. My system works for me, and worked for my co-workers, without fail. Of the 5,000 agents I trained, I never lost one in a gunfight (but I did lose two friends at the Oaklahoma City bombing).

 

[crofrog]

slueth what do you view as the downside to chamber checking your gun. (and for that matter your rest of your gear) before you go 10-8? Or while you are getting ready to go through the gate's of hell?


Chris

 

[isp2605]

Getting by on luck isn't preparation.
I've worked with agents from FBI (had 2 of them assigned to my drug task forces), ATF, USM, and quite a bit with USSS. All the guys I worked with, or those who worked for me, doubled checked everything before we went out. Sometimes guys learn more about tactical smarts than what some are taught.

 

[Coronach]

slueth what do you view as the downside to chamber checking your gun. (and for that matter your rest of your gear) before you go 10-8? Or while you are getting ready to go through the gate's of hell?

Ditto. This habit is an upside without a downside, provided you're doing it properly. Done properly, it should cause you do automatically perform a few basic checks in a safe manner. Done improperly, well... garbage in, garbage out.

My routine is load up, pause at the door and check stuff. Cap, badge, sidearm, ammo, taser, mace, radio, Surefire, cuffs, baton, BUG. Head out to work.

Found that my sidearm was not loaded one day. Why not? I had been dryfiring prior to work, got interrupted, and failed to reload it. The gun was in my custody the whole time, and I "knew" it was loaded. Wrong.

You can get by without checking if you're omniscient. If you're human, you should check.

Mike

 

[mp510]

I too am very much in support of checking the chamber, whether to make sure I've got one in the tube or that the piece is empty. I tend to be a fan of double and triple checking.

 

[Sleuth]

Reasons I don't "chamber check":
1. As noted, the carry gun is with me 24/7 - no one else has access to it. Since I focus when I load, I have no need to constantly insure it is loaded. I have proven to my self that I can count (rounds) all the way up to 8 - even 16 on occasion these days.
2. When I was on the job, events came up quickly. If everyone stopped to chamber check their guns, our arrest rate would have been much, much lower. Much of what we did called for an instantanious response - this was not police patrol work.
3. Each and every time you chamber check (particularly a SA auto), you are disengaging mechanical safetys, even if only for an instant. While these safetys should not be trusted, they are on the guns for a reason. IF they work, they can prevent ND's.
4. Each and every time you pistol is out of the holster, you increase the odds of a ND. They don't just 'go off' by themselves in the holster. (Althouh I have investigated ND's where they claimed that is what happened - including a security guard whose gun ""just went off"" twice - a revolver!)
5. For a time I worked in a high rise building (hated it). There was NO safe direction to do a chamber check, unless you removed your vest, put it on a chair, did the chamber check, and put your vest back on. Due to the nature of our work, vests were often kept in cars, ready for quick donning, and thus not available for this technique.
6. I can find no record of an "alien abduction" of a round from the chaber of a loaded and secured firearm. One less worry.
7. With take home cars individually issued, each officer maintained all his/her equipment as he/she saw fit. If I set my rifle to "cruiser ready", the only way it would change it's condition is if I changed it.

Obviously, from the posts here, your results may vary. I have never had a firearm I had loaded found to be unloaded, or vice versa. I sitll, and always will, check any firearm that has been out of my control for any period of time.

 

[NineseveN]

The fact that you are above the human nature to forget things or remember things that did not happen or did not happen when or how you recall they did is amazing. And if that works for you, awesome. The rest of us, well, I'd wager that we're wrong on a sure thing at least once per day and I've never met any human that wasn't.

I'm sure I paid the gas bill.
I'm sure she said 8pm.
I’m sure this is where I parked.
If no one else touched my keys, they must still be in my pocket, I’m sure of it.

Sometimes, the weak link in the chain is you, so the item in question being solely under your control is irrelevant.

Now if you're talking about loading the chamber, topping off the mag and then immediately checking the chamber, that's probably a little silly. Checking it an hour later never hurts anyone that's safe with a firearm otherwise.

 

[tellner]

If you're really that sure, then go ahead and do whatever you want. But please don't come anywhere near me or mine when you have a weapon. And don't be surprised if you hear "click" when you expected "bang" or vice versa.

 

[Sleuth]

NineseveN, I think it is more a matter of training in two areas:
1. Focus. When I see a gun out of a holster, I focus on the gun, and what is being done with it, to the exclusion of all else. Particularly if it is in my hands.
2. Observation. I am a trained observer. Just Saturday, I responded (Captain on my local Volly Fire Dept) to a car accident. It ended being a fatal, and the investigating DPS officer was surprised at my detailed observations of the actions of the driver (who had taken drugs) and my recall of his statements. I had to be able to do this, so on those (few) occasions when I was undercover, I could recreate the conversations, just in case the 'wire' did not work.

I put myself above no one. I merely design systems for doing things that make it highly unlikely that I will "forget". For example, to load a carry magazine:
1. Count out the rounds, (full mag plus one) and place them on a table.
2. Count the rounds into the magazine out loud.
3. Examine mag witness holes to insure mag is loaded
4. Look at the table - there should be one round left, to be added after chambering a round.
5. If interupted at any stage, unload the mag and start over.

I consider loading a carry gun a life and death matter. Do it, do it right the first time, and then move on.

Kind of makes it harder to screw up.

 

[FPrice]

Kind of makes it harder to screw up.

But not impossible.

 

[NineseveN]

I understand Sleuth, but "highly unlikely" is not the same as fool proof, absolute or 100%. Now, if you're comfortable with that, fair enough. Checking is absolute; it is 100%, though it might not be fool proof if you have a fool with their finger on the trigger while doing a press-check. Of course, those fools might just have had an ND in some other manner anyway, stupid is as stupid does I suppose.

I’ve never had an ND doing a press check, I did have an ND once when a firearm was handled only by me and never left my possession…I didn’t load it, but no one else could have either…yet the darn thing went bang anyhow. Who would have thought?

Now I can be trusted to handle and analyze thousands upon thousands of lines of sensitive data every day and not miss a beat, but I still voluntarily submit for an audit on the completion of any analysis or report. I trust myself, I trust myself to do the smart thing which sometimes means admitting that I am not perfect, and when I am the judge and jury, perhaps it’s a good idea to once-over and verify the facts of the case before I render judgment. But that’s just me.

 

[Lou629]

Why not?

Better safer than sorry. The issue IMHO should come down to why NOT do a check? It couldn't be any easier and only takes a few seconds to be sure that you're sure. Or not. YMMV.

 

[Daniel T]

I'd rather take the entire half-second to check my chamber and be sure, than not and be sure that I'm sure.

 

[benEzra]

For me, I check when removing the gun from the safe, or holstering it, just to ensure it's in the condition I think it's in.

As Sleuth points out, if you're loading a round from the magazine, it's not so critical. But if you're taking one out of the safe/locker, it's more important.

On my S&W (3913LS), I can see the rim of the cartridge through the ejection port barrel/slide gap if it has one chambered. If the gun is supposed to be chamber-loaded, I can look there and verify it without having to pull the slide back. I check before the gun is holstered and then it's good to go as long as it's in the holster.

If the gun is supposed to be in an unloaded state, and I pick it up, I lock the slide back and look into the rear of the chamber, then down the empty magwell. To me, you can't skip this one.

I agree with Sleuth that the constant racking of slides on TV whenever the protagonist enters a situation is silly. The time to check it is before it goes into the holster, not when you draw it.

 

[Sleuth]

I certainly agree that any gun from the safe, or from any place other than my holster, is checked every time it is picked up.

Living out ""in the country"", I have several loaded guns around the house. They may be needed in an instant (mostly for the feral dogs around here), they don't get chamber checked either.

One other thing: This topic came to mind because of the movie - I don't ever think what I see in a movie, even most "documenteries", is real. They are never training. I have had the opportunity to compare two "documenteries" to the official reports. In both cases, they did get the name of the agency and the city correct. Anything beyond that is an exception.

 

[spacemanspiff]

i'm so tactical it hurts

pssshawwwww!!! i do chamber checks in my sleep!



seriously, its not a bad habit to have. humans are imperfect. we make mistakes.

 

[stratus]

For me, it's always been much easier for me to trust that I loaded it, than that I emptied it, because for me, full mag and full chamber is the default.

 

[Big Larry]

Everytime I pick up one of my guns, I always check it. Drop the mag out out pull the slide, reload, and I've refreshed my mind to what I have. With the revolver, I always open the gate, rotate and count each one, looking to make sure there's not one with a dented primer. When it's on my side, I always know what I've got. When it comes off my side, I know what it is, when I lay it down, or put it in the safe. NExt time I grab it, I do it again.