The Customer Is Always Right?

[Avenger]

Atticus, I'm in Vance's on a weekly basis. I know exactly what you mean. The counter guys get my vote in the "Patience of Job" contest.
I once heard a customer ask for .38 ammo. The clerk asked him, ".38 Special, right?" just to be sure. The guy tells, "Aw hellz no dawg, I ain't want no retard ammo." It took the clerk a good five minutes to convince the guy that it didn't mean Special as in Olympics.

Archie, I've actually seen that work. The guy took a shot with a 20ga from about 20 feet just as the rabbit dipped its head, missed the rabbit clean between the ears, and the darn thing fell over dead. Shockwave? Nope, plain old simple cardiac arrest. Rabbits may not have our deep philosophical way of thinking, but a cloud of #6 shot sailing right over their heads will certainly get their adrenaline going.

 

[George Hill]

Reminds me of Animal House, with the horse and the .45 blanks.
Now, I had a lot of questions today at the gunstore, but nothing that qualifies as Stupid Question. Just customers that didn't understand something or other. And the customers were all good at listening and learning. Nothing to report here on that count...
But I did have one seriously Bold Claim.
Dude claimed to have used a .357 Magnum snub nose revolver, 75 yards, shot to the head of an Elk, and the elk died right there.
Huh, well, that's a lucky shot.... and I was thinking "You're an unethical bastage for even trying it, jerkwad!"

 

[ColinthePilot]

I usually try to avoid being the stupid customer by researching these types of purchases in depth before i even go to the store. I did this with my truck, showed up to a dealership and told the salesman exactly what I wanted and how much I wanted to spend (I quoted low, but whatever). He starts out with a truck 5K over my price range with a ton of bells and whistles I didn't need. He showed me 3 trucks that all differed from my request before we found the one i wanted...So i went across town and bought it from another dealership.

Same thing happened last week when I was shopping for a .22. I have always researched my gun purchases pretty extensively, but there are so many bolt .22LR's out there that I got a few ideas and just went in hoping to get some advice. Same deal as my truck. The young salesman who knows everything didn't understand that I wanted a "cheap .22LR, bolt action, with a 5+ rnd mag." he started with a $350 rifle, then moved to some semi autos and a few levers and even a pump. I liked the one i ended up buying but came back a few days later and bought it from a great salesman. He was an older gentleman who knew how to handle an intelligent customer. I walked in and said "I want that Savage .22 on the bottom rack please." He picked it up, handed me the papers, called NICS and swiped my credit card. No questions asked, no unwanted advice.

 

[Markbo]

That's actually very telling:
1. You lie to the car salesman about how much you will spend for what you want
2. He busts his hump to show you all sorts of options
3. You waste his time by following him around instead of just telling him exactly what your wants and needs are - AND he landed you on the one you wanted
4. and you go across town to by it from someone else. Are you even aware that EVERY truck is different on a lot?

Same at the gun shop. You tell a 'young salesman' which I take to be derrogatory you want a "cheap .22LR, bolt action, with a 5+ rnd mag". He takes his time showing you lots of options, you waste his time by not telling him what you want and come back and tell some older gentleman "I want THAT gun".

Am I the only one that sees the pattern here? You aren't forthcoming with enough information for a sales professional to help you, you use them to get your last bit of education then don't even thank them... you blow them off and buy exactly what you now want... from some else.

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

Whenever I hear about stupid or ignorant customers, and I'm sure there are lots of them out there, I can't help but be reminded of being at a gun show where one of the regular dealers, B**'s Gun Shop, had a salesman talking to a man and wife about revolvers. Seem the guy traveled and wanted his wife to have a gun for when he was gone. She wanted a gun, too, just not the semiauto he was leaning towards; she wanted a small S&W .38 revolver. The ever-helpful clerk told them that if they were going to buy a revolver, they may a well buy a Taurus since Taurus had made all the Smith & Wesson revolvers since they were owned by the same company. I'm sure I made an enemy when I asked the salesman what Smith & Wesson manufactured in their plant in Springfield and got a dumb look in reponse. The husband and wife followed me and my brother away from the tables and asked some very intelligent questions. We saw them leaving the gun show later very pleased and excited about the Ruger SP101 they bought her.

Now, I'm not a Taurus-basher because I carry one as my second gun, and I'm not a S&W basher because my primary gun is one. To this day, I can't make myself look at the B**'s Guns displays at gun shows because the idiot salesman is still there.

ECS

 

[average_shooter]

Markbo-

If I go in and say I'm looking for a polymer-framed, semi-auto in 9mm I do not want to be shown the latest S&W revolver in .500 knock-u-on-ur-a$$. That doesn't mean I know yet which polymer-framed, semi-auto 9mm I want.

Similarly, if he says he's looking for a bolt-action, the salesman is wasting breath and time showing him semi-autos.

 

[TimM]

Archie, I've actually seen that work. The guy took a shot with a 20ga from about 20 feet just as the rabbit dipped its head, missed the rabbit clean between the ears, and the darn thing fell over dead. Shockwave? Nope, plain old simple cardiac arrest. Rabbits may not have our deep philosophical way of thinking, but a cloud of #6 shot sailing right over their heads will certainly get their adrenaline going.

This is too funny! I am 42 years old and I have never been without a beagle (I've had a pack as big as 42 dogs at times) since I was seven. I have rabbit hunted for 35 years and my mother used to raise rabbits for meat - I have never seen a rabbit die from cardiac failure. I have had dogs catch rabbits, seen rabbits chased by foxes and coyotes, seen rabbits picked up by hawks and eagles and I have seen rabbits hit and not killed by autos. I have even stepped on rabbits and pinned them to the ground by accident when they were setting too tight. I have seen and killed thousands upon thousands of rabbits and not one died from cardiac arrest.

I would say that it is more likely a single pellet penetrated the brain. Bunnies are very easy to kill - even so, you just can't scare them to death.

 

[mekender]

ive worked in numerous retail establishments ranging from hardware stores to grocery stores to cashiering at Toys R Us during xmas... ive also worked as a customer service rep answering phones for 2 different computer companies, 3 different internet providers (two were cable companies) and a printer manufacturer... i probably could write a book with the number of amazingly moronic yet hysterically funny stories i have heard and dealt with...

we would regularly do scheduled upgrades and repairs on entire cities at the cable company and drop peoples service out between 2 am and 6 am... inevitable we would get drunken people screaming at us at 3 am "i just spent $500 on a poker tournament, i want my money back"... of course, our reply was simple... "our service is for entertainment only, not for reliable cash generation... in addition, in this state gambling is illegal, if you would like to press this issue, please contact our lawyers"... never once got sued...

best call ever was while working for the printer company... had this hysterical lady call, crying and sobbing that her printer was printing out pages covered in blood and that it must be possessed or something... after about 10 mins of calming her down, we finally got her to look inside the cover of the printer while it was printing... a mouse had crawled into the printer and gotten wedged under the print head that goes back and forth across the paper... of course, the screaming got worse after she saw that...

 

[1911Tuner]

Ignorant customers aren't the problem. Most counter personnel are more than happy to help in the selection and in the education of these people, and it can actually be pretty rewarding...provided that the ignorant customer doesn't also come with a heavy dose of arrogance over the fact that you
cleared up a few misconceptions for him. I say "him" because the largest percentage of "What makes you think you know more than me" attitude comes from the good ol' boy...the one who "THINKS he knoweth all and truly knoweth not of which he speaketh.

This may be caused in part by the same sort of counterman who gave the guy a bum steer on his last purchase. So, it tends to be a Catch-22 situation that becomes self-perpetuating. The bitten buyer does some research to avoid being re-bitten...gets bogus information from someone he either trusts, or from the internet...and the clash is inevitible. Remember that he doesn't know you any better than you know him. He doesn't know if your knowledge is genuine and your advice correct any more than you know if he's good to go.

It was always my practice to try to explain in a clear, calm manner void of condescension and without the smirk...offering a backup explanation without actually challenging him or his advisor. Sometimes it doesn't work. That's part of the job. Many times it does.

 

[herohog]

Just so ya know, there's a cartoon series devoted to this very subject! Enjoy: www.customerssuck.com

 

[bogie]

Dude claimed to have used a .357 Magnum snub nose revolver, 75 yards, shot to the head of an Elk, and the elk died right there.

In my experience, most people seem to think that the 7 yard range is 25 yards, the 15 yard range range is 50, and that the 25 yard range is 100...

Might notta been a snubby either - some folks call 4" barrels snubbies, and IIRC, Elmer liked those for hunting...

If I _really_ didn't like an elk (i.e., it was in my yard, attempting to hump my Mitsubishi to death...), I'd consider my 6" Security Six with a 180 grain Hornady to the brainpan...

Then again, I used to "hunt" deer from the roof of my house - got chewed out once by the locker plant guy for bringing it a six pointer... Of course, it started out as a twelve pointer before I anchored it... (I didn't like to chase them, and since back when I was 20 or so, I didn't know squat about ballistics and bullet construction, I was shooting varmint bullets out of the .25-06 that I had...).

 

[Wes Janson]

Quite a while back, I was standing around straightening up displays, when one of my co-workers walked up with a customer, and asked to see a Glock with Crimsontrace grips installed on it. Okay, so I pull out the pistol, do a quick press check, and hand it to the co-worker. He turns and gives it to the customer, who proceeds to immediately bring it up and point it directly at my chest, with about a foot of distance between the muzzle and moi, and then played with the laser dot. While holding the pistol sideways, no less. I just turned and walked away. Later on I had a chance to talk to my co-worker alone, and he informed me that the customer was a local police officer. Can't really say that it gave me the warm fuzzies about the quality of whichever department he was from.

 

[BHPshooter]

This was probably my most stressful day with a customer: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=268882

You hear all kinds of great stuff. A couple of our regular customers came in last week to sell their old varmint rifles (in 243 Win), and both wanted Winchester 70 Coyotes in 7mm WSM (and luckily we still had 2 in stock). When asked why, they said it's because they have superior ballistics. Apparently their buddy said that he was shooting a 5-inch group at 1000 yards. Silly me, I wasn't even aware a Barrett .50 could achieve that.

One of my favorites is, "9mm won't do a damn thing, it's such a weak cartridge. Get yourself a .38 Special." :banghead:

I had a guy, who comes in fairly frequently, come and get some Speer Gold Dots for his .38 Spl. I mentioned that that they're a little more expensive than some others, especially figuring only 20/box, and he said, "It doesn't matter. I'll probably never shoot them, so I only really need 5 of them. 20 is plenty." Hey, whatever man. To each his own.

I'm sure I'll think of others...
Wes

 

[bogie]

A 5" group at 1,000 yards is possible.

However, consistently shooting 5" groups at 1,000 yards from a factory rifle and barrel is not probable.

As for only needing 5 gold dots - I can see that... I don't practice with the hydrashoks that I keep loaded in my nightstand gun... Which means that eventually in 10-20 years, I'm going to have to shoot 'em and replace them.

 

[akodo]

That's actually very telling:
1. You lie to the car salesman about how much you will spend for what you want
2. He busts his hump to show you all sorts of options
3. You waste his time by following him around instead of just telling him exactly what your wants and needs are - AND he landed you on the one you wanted
4. and you go across town to by it from someone else. Are you even aware that EVERY truck is different on a lot?

Same at the gun shop. You tell a 'young salesman' which I take to be derrogatory you want a "cheap .22LR, bolt action, with a 5+ rnd mag". He takes his time showing you lots of options, you waste his time by not telling him what you want and come back and tell some older gentleman "I want THAT gun".

actually, I think both are quite reasonable, but for different reasons.

Regarding the car lot, any time there is haggling going on, anything, and I mean anything, is fair game. Rent a wheelchair and have your wife sit in it if you like. It's all part of the game. Why do you think the lotman took him to see an overpriced truck? Because the lotman realized the quoted price has some swing it in factored in.


Regarding the gun, nothign wrong with stating the features you desire just in case something new hit the scene you weren't aware of.

A car isn't like a gun where you can talk a guy into spending 50% more than he wanted, going from a $300 to a $450 toy isn't going to matter, going from a $15,000 to a $22,000 might well result in default. The salesman doesn't offer overpriced models because he wants you to default, he does it because he knows how to haggle too.

 

[Avenger]

This is too funny! I am 42 years old and I have never been without a beagle (I've had a pack as big as 42 dogs at times) since I was seven. I have rabbit hunted for 35 years and my mother used to raise rabbits for meat - I have never seen a rabbit die from cardiac failure. I have had dogs catch rabbits, seen rabbits chased by foxes and coyotes, seen rabbits picked up by hawks and eagles and I have seen rabbits hit and not killed by autos. I have even stepped on rabbits and pinned them to the ground by accident when they were setting too tight. I have seen and killed thousands upon thousands of rabbits and not one died from cardiac arrest.

I would say that it is more likely a single pellet penetrated the brain. Bunnies are very easy to kill - even so, you just can't scare them to death.

I have to say this was the one in a million then. There wasn't a puncture to be seen anywhere on the skin once we took it off, and the skull was intact. Even a #6 pellet makes a noticable hole. I wish I had brought the carcass home, I didn't know about boiling skeletons then though.

 

[Markbo]

Markbo- If I go in and say I'm looking for a polymer-framed, semi-auto in 9mm I do not want to be shown the latest S&W revolver in .500 knock-u-on-ur-a$$. That doesn't mean I know yet which polymer-framed, semi-auto 9mm I want. Similarly, if he says he's looking for a bolt-action, the salesman is wasting breath and time showing him semi-autos.

Wasting his time and breath, huh? The customer has a vague list of wants and he shows him options - he is trying to take care of the customer by educating him on options - and he's wasting his breath? Obviously he was in that case!

actually, I think both are quite reasonable, but for different reasons.Regarding the car lot, any time there is haggling going on, anything, and I mean anything, is fair game. Rent a wheelchair and have your wife sit in it if you like. It's all part of the game. Why do you think the lotman took him to see an overpriced truck? Because the lotman realized the quoted price has some swing it in factored in...

So it's all fair and they both know it, so he goes and buys it from someone else despite the fact they are both playing a game? And who says the first truck was overpriced? He said it was higher than his already admitted lie of a max price... AND how do you know the salesman was not accounting for rebates and dealer incentives to GET to his price?

Regarding the gun, nothign wrong with stating the features you desire just in case something new hit the scene you weren't aware of...

Riiiight.... so what's wrong with the saleman offering options the customer may not know about????

A car isn't like a gun where you can talk a guy into spending 50% more than he wanted, going from a $300 to a $450 toy isn't going to matter, going from a $15,000 to a $22,000 might well result in default. The salesman doesn't offer overpriced models because he wants you to default, he does it because he knows how to haggle too.

A car is EXACTLY like a gun where you can talk someone into spending twice what they want to spend. Do you think car dealerships do not know that every customer lies? If the customer ends up in default, that is their problem with the lender... not the dealership. Salesmen don't offer 'overpriced' models of anything. EVERY car has an MSRP on it. Many also have rebates and incentives that the customer may not know about but that the dealerships are bound by law to pass on.

Why are car salesmen the only business in the world where people walk in apparently believing that they will definitely be lied to, but still depend upon the salesman to answer questions anyway? A car salesmans job is not to get you the best deal. It is to make the most money for the dealership and himself. Their is nothing wrong with making a profit.

If people took responsibility for their own ignorance and get educated it would be a lot more pleasant experience for them. In that particular instance, I was pointing out the salesman was trying to help the customer and after he invested his time, knowledge, expertice and assistance, Colin went across town and bought it from someone else.

And of course Colin would neeeeeeever use the information he got from the first guy to make a great deal with the second guy! I am not saying anything was wrong... I was simply pointing out the inconsistency of belittling salespeople for doing their job and then not rewarding them by buying from them, but from someone else with the information obtained from the first. Who is being unethical?

 

[Brian Dale]

Who is being unethical?

Nobody. That's the game. Everybody knows it.

 

[bogie]

Gee, I just don't understand why some geniuses get irritated if Bubba's Bait, Pawn and Lingerie Boutique has a Remchesburg Model POS priced at $9.95 over what they saw it listed at in the last copy of Shotgun News that they read while standing at the magazine rack while waiting for The Little Lady to do the family's shopping...

Clue #1: Bubba's got a gun, but he ain't gonna hold it on you and make you buy the thing.

Clue #2: There are other stores who may (or may not, as the case may be...) want you as a customer.

Clue #3: Bubba, and presumably the other stores, ain't being run as non-profit charities. If you want a freebie handout, go sign up for welfare.

Clue #4: Bubba ain't psychic. Some doof (you...) walks up, and says "I wanna buy that shotgun I saw in Shotgun News!" ---- well, first he's going to mentally roll his eyes, and think "Okay - they must be teaching Hunter Ed to the "special" class now..." Then he's going to try to figure out just what it is you want. This will require what may seem at times to be stupid questions. He's not stupid. Your original statement didn't provide enough information.

So... If I'm watching the store for a friend, and someone walks in, and says they want a low-priced bolt action .22, they're VERY likely to get shown a rifle that goes for about $850 or so... It's a target rifle, and that _is_ a low price - his place caters primarily toward people who shoot the higher-end target stuff... Now, if they'd said "I wanna see a low-priced bolt action .22 for shootin' rabbits" they'd get shown something COMPLETELY different. Probably out of a catalog.

 

[Wes Janson]

Riiiight.... so what's wrong with the saleman offering options the customer may not know about????

This reminds me... About two weeks ago, I had a customer come in looking at revolvers. He asked to see a Taurus .44 Magnum, and mentioned that he was interested in something more than a .357. So I asked if he'd considered any of the S&W models, which he had not. The first one I showed him was a Performance Center .44 Mag 629, with all of the bells and whistles. He wound up looking at several other Smiths, and then left. Came back later that day and wound up buying that same 629. I saw him shooting it a few days later, and he was absolutely loving it.

From the salesman's perspective, I try not to assume anything. Showing someone all of the relevant options is good for both parties, because frequently there's something else that the customer finds to be a better match. If someone comes in and asks for a .22 plinking rifle, I'm not going to automatically assume they want a $99 single-shot bolt-action, but instead show them all of the .22 rifles we have in stock. Getting ticked off because the guy behind the counter is trying to help make you happy is just unnecessary.

 

[ReidWrench]

I never worked in a gun store

But I have been a counterman these last 25 years . Probly the grand champion was in just a couple months ago . He was loud , beligerant ,and mentally defective . On his third lap from the register to the parking lot trying to install a set of magnetic towing lights he lit into me about the crappy stuff we sell and how he knew it was going to be nothing but trouble . I asked him what the problem was as I might be able to help .These G@@%$&#@ things have the turn signals reversed , and then went on running his mouth some more . I told him in my best Gomer Pyle " I am sorry , but goooooallly .... I dont know what to do about that !" And sold him the black tape and wire strippers .

Once I was having my mechanical abilities called into question by the teenage "son of a jet boat" . He was getting really snide , smart assed , asking pointed questions and then answering them for me as I was just not on the same level . I called him in real close and told him in a hushed tone " Listen up son , You may not think I know much , but I am probably the only person you will ever meet that can start an engine with 10 inch pistons by hand , just by spinng the flywheel , and then sit and watch it run with no water in the radiator nor a drop of oil in the crankcase . And I have one big one I can get running real smooth at 45 RPM. "

He looked at me like I just told him a .410 sooper sniper story , openly pronounced me an idiot and left . Great laughter ensued . Some day he might see and remember my cryptic jibe , dont matter to this old '**** .

For them what didnt get the joke , the technology was WAY out of his frame of reference .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryfOIYPXmqs

 

[JohnKSa]

A 5" group at 1,000 yards is possible.

Under half an MOA at 1000 yards? Yup, possible. But you won't lose much money betting against people who claim they can.

 

[bogie]

Actually, I'd probably lose a bunch... Because that's not my game, and the people who I know (who I'll actually hang around with) who claim that they can stuff like that actually will give you a pretty fair run for your money...

http://www.international-benchrest.com/IBSRecords/05LDrecords.htm

 

[sm]

No.
Retail, wholesale, manufacture, design, distribution, marketing , competition, and testing/evaluation experience in regard to not only firearm related industries since I was born, the answer is no.

Some folks have no damn business breathing my air.

 

[JohnKSa]

Actually, I'd probably lose a bunch... Because that's not my game, and the people who I know (who I'll actually hang around with) who claim that they can stuff like that actually will give you a pretty fair run for your money...

Betting against someone off the street who claims that they can beat/equal/come very close to the records in any sport is not going to be a losing proposition in the long run although you may lose a bet once in awhile if you're unlucky and the other guy is VERY lucky or VERY good.

Betting against someone off the street (or out of a gun shop) who claims that they're shooting at a level competitive with the current benchrest records while using off-the-shelf production rifles and factory ammunition is not going to lose you any money at all.