The death of retail gun stores?

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"...the local Cabela's..." Small shops cannot compete with the big box stores price wise. The big box stores cannot compete with the customer service and knowledge found in the small shops.
 
GBExpat said:
In gauging/judging LGS premiums I stick with dollar amounts rather than percentages.

With firearms, I will gladly pay ~$20-$30 more than Internet in the OTD price for a LGS or KitchenTable purchase.

10% is usually much more than that and, so, unacceptable to me.
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Online prices save me $100 on average. If the LGS cannot compete, they fall, and I couldn't care less. Most are greedy, unethical bass turds.
 
You have to get a really good deal on powder if you want to offset the hazmat fee and shipping in the final cost. I can pay a lot more for powder at a LGS and still come out less expensive. Initial price is not an issue if you are not paying other fees most of the time. I experiment a lot with reloading components so buying huge quantity's of powder and other components doesn't work for me.
 
TheDomFather said:
The more I look at prices the more I realize everything can be found cheaper on line.
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Yep, it's a brave new world out there. Welcome! ;)

Some of the best customer service I've ever received "anywhere" was from Missouri Bullet Company. Haven't ordered from them for a couple years, but they used to ship three days prior to ordering! Yes, they were that fast... :thumbup:

I'm envious of those folks that have a LGS worth missing though. Sounds like a rare thing to have.
 
It is not only LGS but all small business. large Box stores like Cabellas, Pass Pro, Home Depot, Macys have a away out. Unlike small business who have to Purchase everything in there store. The big stores use fulfillment Or Open Reciept. I have worked in this Industry many years. Fullfilment Is Selling without Owning. through factory direct sales. You can tell fulfillment when It says as a disclamer " Do not Return to the store ship back to factory"
Open receipt is Like a Home depot, Cabellas, Lowe's and other. The Store does not Own anything in the store basiclly. Companies stock there store , Pay rent for there space they used. When someone Buys and Item, Through Computer inventory. every party Gets Paid , Factory, store and Others. . Everyone gets a small piece of the pie.
These 2 Items have Killed small independent Business.
 
I spent 30 years working for appliance and electronics retailers. A long time ago, the smaller retailers learned to form buyers groups to pool their buying power and purchase in larger quantity so they could compete with big retail. Mom and pop gun stores need to figure this out.
 
Most Local LGS are now Relying on Acc. to keep going. There is No profit on New rifles .. By the time you pay all expenses . with the shop, There is nothing to bring home. I had a shop in MT. Vernon NY. Most Customers Came in with the Shotgun News . Asking If I could beat there best Price. . I was unable to Buy from My distributer for that cost. Just packed it in and dumped all the stuff @ the gun shows
 
Most people shop their wallet most of the time; it is counterintuitive to spend for an item that knowingly cost less thru another venue - human nature. As far as LGS transfers go, remember that a transfer it is only a "service" process that can be provided/ duplicated (at a cost) thru many other types of store fronts. The Amazon gorilla will continue to overpower until stopped with an even better idea. Nostalgia is comforting but it is also very stagnant - the mob is fickle, they long for a simple, slower, peaceful world and then demand 1 day "Prime" delivery from China.
 
i got one for ya guys. i needed to do a tune up on my car and my mechanic says check amazon's prices against the actual parts stores and i saved about $100 for the same exact stuff. i need shocks too and parts stores want $220 for the fronts and amazon has them for $129. if its a few bucks more like $20 and under i will buy locally but anything more than $20+drive time, gas, miles on the car i will buy online. i have a friend who manages a sporting goods store and he said markup is like 50% on almost everything. the scope rings i purchases were $10 more than online and i ate the $10+20min drive both ways cause i needed them that day and by the time i paid shipping i would have paid $10 to wait a week.
 
I have been going to both of my LGS's for decades.(yearly Memberships at their range) A lot of times I will just do some window shopping at the counters. Their Price's are ridiculously high. Over the years I have noticed that most of the purchaser's are Newbie's. First time shooter's that ask for advice, the Clerk pulls out one or two products and they make a quick sale. However, The Local gun shop has too put up with a lot of crap. Many times you will see them write up a firearm and do the paper work only to find the customer will not get past the registration requirements. (Background checks). These people knew they had issues but have no problem taking up the time of the clerk. This is very time consuming and time is money. These people drive up the cost for everyone.
They normally have about 4 or 5 counter sales people. They spend a lot of time assisting customers, showing products to folks that have no intention of buying etc. These salesmen are not free.
As far as ammo, goes, they are high as well. Of course they are, you are paying for the convenience. I see the newbies or shooters that come in maybe once or twice a year and they will buy but a few boxes of ammo, shoot at the range, go home and wait until next year. There there those shooters that will come in as a couple, and instead of going bowling, will go to the range on Saturday, rent a few guns and ammo, act ridiculous while shooting. They are not in to the game, so concern for cost is not there.
I do not complain about the high cost of ammo and firearms at the Local gun shops. Common sense say's they have to charge more than someone buying bulk, or from a major player with huge buying discounts and warehouses.
The good news is that they sometimes will have great deals on used guns. Many guns I have seen that are used have hardly been shot. So many people buy guns today and find that they cannot afford to shoot them, do not like the recoil, bought on impulse etc.

I recent ran off to the local range to test out a pistol I had been working on. I only brought a box of ammo with me, thinking I would be in and out quickly. However after shooting the box of ammo I had, I decided I wanted to shoot it some more. I could have gotten into my car, gone home and picked up more ammo, but instead of wasting so much time. I bought a box of the LGS ammo. Yes, I knew it would cost more. But the convenience was worth the cost.
 
kcofohio said:
Ah, somebody finally sees that!
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"Online gun buying ceases to be an option if there's no LGS to do the transfer for you. Just saying..."

True up to a point. I personally use gunsmiths mostly for transfers, followed by kitchen-table FFLs, rather that brick-and-mortar FFLs, mostly because they charge me less for the transfer.
 
bikemutt said:
"Online gun buying ceases to be an option if there's no LGS to do the transfer for you. Just saying..."

True up to a point. I personally use gunsmiths mostly for transfers, followed by kitchen-table FFLs, rather that brick-and-mortar FFLs, mostly because they charge me less for the transfer.
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I have not yet had to use a gun smith, and don't personally know of but one kitchen table ffl. And he only said he would do this transfer, but usually he only did it for family and friends.

But I usually get fair prices for guns here locally. Not always, but I have come across some neat oldies.
 
Jack B. said:
You have to get a really good deal on powder if you want to offset the hazmat fee and shipping in the final cost. I can pay a lot more for powder at a LGS and still come out less expensive. Initial price is not an issue if you are not paying other fees most of the time. I experiment a lot with reloading components so buying huge quantity's of powder and other components doesn't work for me.
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I would buy powder and primers locally, but the only LGS I frequent that carries the hazmat items has to pay the same hazmat and shipping fees we do, and they simply do not order enough of it to be able to sell it for a price that is anywhere close to what I can get it for at the gun shows. I have picked up a few primers and a 4lb jug of powder before, just because it was convenient.

As for guns, I have only done a couple of transfers before, but everything else has either been purchased at a LGS or person-person. I know what I could pat for them online, and sometimes I could save a little money, but I like being able to hold the gun before I let go of my money.
 
My LGS's (and there are five within easy driving distance) all charge a high price for powder and primers. They build in the Hazmat fee into each bottle of powder and each 1000 box of primers. If they did it in actual proportion to what they pay for the Hazmat fee when they get delivery in bulk, no problem. But if I can get primers on line for say $28.00 and $43.00 at the LGS with the explanation that they have to pass on the Hazmat fee they are paying, it does not take a rocket scientist to know when he is getting his shoes urinated on. Same BS for a pound of powder. Smart business people make money. Pigs get financially slaughtered.

If you are not in dire need of a product and think ahead, every major on line dealer will have either free hazmat sales or free shipping or both several times a year with days such as Father's Day, July 4th, Veteran's Day, Christmas, Flag Day and possibly Labrador Retriever Day.
 
I think we all agree having LGSs are a good thing. The problem I see is that most aren't run by good business people. So they make excuses, they try and shame us and do whatever they can to justify higher prices.

I've often said that a business needs to make a profit. But it needs to be a fair profit. I once had an owner of a speed shop try and sell me tires for $25 more per tire than a national chain. He claimed that I was paying for his "expertise". The reality was he had a part time high school kid doing the mounting and balancing. So not only was he full of BS he was so far off it wasn't funny. In fact the lie cost him a good customer who had spent thousands of dollars in the past and who took thousands elsewhere.

I mention this because I see the same things at LGSs. Owners will do stuff to drive us off trying to make a big score. They don't realize many of us have an understanding that they have to make money. But we won't pay an extra $50 to feed an ego and have a kid do the work they claim is so "specialized".

I'd be interested if anyone here has a really good LGS near them. One who gives excellent service, has fair prices and who does a large volume. I suspect the few that do will see a shop that uses technology wisely. That stays abreast of market conditions and that has found niches to make large margins in areas that pay the rent and give them a fair profit.

As I type this, I'm convinced more than ever that the niche, the guy (or gal) running a shop out of a garage or out building or other creative ways I've reducing overhead is what we will see more of in the future. The MidwayUSA, Brownells, Joebobs on the internet and the Cabellas and Bass Pro on the big box will force the LGS to go to such routes to compete.
 
I
Hokie_PhD said:
I think we all agree having LGSs are a good thing. The problem I see is that most aren't run by good business people. So they make excuses, they try and shame us and do whatever they can to justify higher prices.

I've often said that a business needs to make a profit. But it needs to be a fair profit. I once had an owner of a speed shop try and sell me tires for $25 more per tire than a national chain. He claimed that I was paying for his "expertise". The reality was he had a part time high school kid doing the mounting and balancing. So not only was he full of BS he was so far off it wasn't funny. In fact the lie cost him a good customer who had spent thousands of dollars in the past and who took thousands elsewhere.

I mention this because I see the same things at LGSs. Owners will do stuff to drive us off trying to make a big score. They don't realize many of us have an understanding that they have to make money. But we won't pay an extra $50 to feed an ego and have a kid do the work they claim is so "specialized".

I'd be interested if anyone here has a really good LGS near them. One who gives excellent service, has fair prices and who does a large volume. I suspect the few that do will see a shop that uses technology wisely. That stays abreast of market conditions and that has found niches to make large margins in areas that pay the rent and give them a fair profit.

As I type this, I'm convinced more than ever that the niche, the guy (or gal) running a shop out of a garage or out building or other creative ways I've reducing overhead is what we will see more of in the future. The MidwayUSA, Brownells, Joebobs on the internet and the Cabellas and Bass Pro on the big box will force the LGS to go to such routes to compete.
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I have been shooting for years, I have never seen any of them try and shame anyone. Sorry, but I disagree with just about every thing your are saying. Midway, Brownwell's have been around for years, They sell all kinds of parts etc. that the Small Business will not carry. They have alway's had their role in the gun world, nothing new here. Many small business's do sell firearm's on line. Nothing new about that. Seems you prefer the big box stores. I rarely buy from Cabela's, Bass Pro or Dicks etc.
I suspect the small gun stores will be around for a long time.
 
Actually I don't like big box stores.
I guess you're lucky or the LGSs by you must be better than here. As I said some are good some aren't. But I stand by what I've stated as I've experienced it too many times.
 
The one thing I have against one of LGS, is that twice my wife had gone in to buy a gun, and twice they sold her a discontinued gun that had been sitting on the shelf too long.

Once they showed online, ( I know that they keep it updated) a couple S&W SD9VEs in stock. I told her the newer ones would be what she wanted. Instead they sold her a Sigma, because it wasn't moving. Another was the discontinued Taurus View. When I'm with her, they don't try to pull that crap.

I've had some decent deals there.
 
Hokie_PhD said:
I'd be interested if anyone here has a really good LGS near them. One who gives excellent service, has fair prices and who does a large volume. I suspect the few that do will see a shop that uses technology wisely. That stays abreast of market conditions and that has found niches to make large margins in areas that pay the rent and give them a fair profit.
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I have a great LGS today in my town. Actually, we have 3 within a mile of each other, but one is outstanding. He has decent inventory, a fair amount of used, and enough accessories to make browsing fun. He will order anything and does not mind transfers. He will also pack and ship for a nominal fee. Prices are very reasonable, some deals are downright great here lately. He has a web presence and does a fair amount of gun sales that way, too. But if you want something special, it's best to go to the store.
The other stores have their strong points... one has a really large used inventory and sells safes and reloading supplies, the 3rd often has better prices on some things but not as much stock, deals to be had but not very often.
I can usually find anything I need in town at one of these 3 stores!
 
There is only one LGS within 30 miles but he is very cooperative, sells guns close to internet prices, carries a full line of powder and reloading supplies and is a good gunsmith. I willing pay the few bucks extra to help support him. If I want something I can only get on the internet his transfer fee is $20.00 so I am not complaining.
 
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