The Hunter/Killer Instinct & Gun Owners?

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If one believes in evolution (which I do) then one knows that mankind evolved from creatures that lived and survived thru hunting.

Man being a social animal formed groups usually of no more than 30 or so individuals. Within those groups the biggest, strongest, fastest and smartest males were the most successful hunters/killers. The biggest, strongest, fastest and smartest males were also the most successful at protecting their group against other groups by killing the group's enemies. They were also the most successful at acquiring mates and thus passing along the hunter/killer instinct.

In other words, males of the human species are naturally - well there's no nice way to say it - killers. Males, and some females, are naturally aggressive; it is in the genes. It is who we are.

However, the hunter/killer instinct has been bred out of many - most some might argue - because it is no longer necessary for survival. Modern society has pretty much suppressed it in the rest. The ones whom the hunter/killer instinct has been bred out of are not at issue.

Those who have the hunter/killer instinct in combination with an instinctual desire to live cooperatively within a group and follow its natural order can be considered warriors/protectors. Others who have the instinct but care naught for the group usually become criminals.

On the other hand males who have the instinct but in whom it has been societally suppressed have a real problem. The instinct is still there hidden deep down in the psyche and it needs an outlet. Without an outlet various social and/or psychological problems can manifest themselves.

The outlet can take many forms. Some males gravitate towards professions that allow the urge to hunt/kill to be overt. Others suppress the urge overtly but covertly exercise it by being in professions where they gain power and control over other people. Some exercise the instinct thru active or passive participation in sports. Others exercise the urge thru hobbies and others simply become criminal predators who overtly exercise the instinct against others.

Question?
Are we gun owners just exercising our killer/hunter instinct thru the ownership and use of guns? Are we males - and some females too - that have yet to have the hunter/killer instinct bred out of us?

Inquiring minds want to know...
 
In many species it is the female that you have to watch out for. Humans are a strange breed.

Black widow females sometimes eat the males after mating. :eek:
 
I don't think it's necessarily a linear path. Humans (most humans) are complex multi-faceted organisms, capable of a variety of tasks, beliefs, attitudes, values and opinions, which are all subject to change and redirection. Males in particular have the ability to 'compartmentalize' our thoughts and emotions, and direct our actions accordingly.

It does not necessarily follow that gun ownership by itself serves as an outlet for a vestigial hunter/killer instinct, although without it, gun ownership may be somewhat impotent in its application.
 
I've always felt that there is a warrior spirit in most men -- and many women. We are not so far removed from ancestors who had to fight and kill to survive. Many places in the world, this is still the case. I've been an avid hunter for years. My brother couldn't kill a thing, but is the biggest sports fanatic you'll ever meet. I think your view is correct that deep within us, that hunter / killer / warrior is still there. For some, it's buried deeply away under the confines of modern society. For others of us, it's just below the skin, ready to sharpen our favorite spear and run howling across the landscape, looking for blood to shed.
 
Human Behavior

Although it is always risky to extrapolate from animal data to human behavior, but that said I'll wade in hip deep. In some ape species, it actually isn't the strongest or most aggressive male who leads, but the one who is most skilled at forming positive relationships with other members of the troop. (A politician?)
In marmosets ( a lower primate) on the other hand when a new male displaces his predecessor, he kills all the young. The females come into heat and he inseminates all of them, ensuring that the next generation are all his offspring.
 
As you know, I very much believe that the hunter/killer instinct hasn't been bred out of the species, or even successfully suppressed, and that those who have deluded themselves into thinking it has are the biggest problem we face.

However, I don't think the ownership & use of guns, in itself, is necessarily an expression of that hunter & killer instincts. There are too many people who own guns simply as collectors' pieces, and too many people who only own a .22 to pop paper plates. I suppose, insofar as the drive to master a skill is an expression of the H&K instincts (heh...H&K...ain't I just the clever one, today?), then I suppose it is. But that drive to master a skill is so widespread that saying the use of guns is included isn't saying much.

All that being said, guns do lend themselves particularly well to activities that are expressions of those instincts. Shooting at realistic targets, practicing the "Mozambique," IDPA/IPSC matches, those, specifically, are expressions of the H&K instincts, just like paintball and laser tag.

But gun ownership itself? Not in my estimation. For example, I know one person who loves guns, but only for their precision engineering. He occasionally shoots the ones he owns, but more as a proof of their quality than because shooting is an end in itself. Just my 2% of $1.
 
One thing you discount which creates a “problem†of it’s own, is the fact that humans prop up and protect the weak and the sick among the herd and one could argue we modify a part of our lives to accommodate to them.

Animals do not, infact they tend to let nature takes its course, at some point after birth you are expected to hunt, kill and survive on your own or die, not stand in line at the welfare office taking handouts.

I feel that most males, the majority is capable of being hunters/protectors when the times come; this is a human trait one of survival, which every living thing has.

But some, perhaps even most won’t realize the time to kill has arrived until it is too late and will ultimately become prey.

What sets us apart from the herd is the simple fact that we expect, in our lifetime we will become someone’s quarry therefore we prepare each and everyday to win this encounter hands down without question and that is the reason we will survive, because you are prepared to kill when the time comes.

I go to work each and everyday as a sworn LEO, I carry a gun and wear my vest, I have a ritual, which I must go thru prior to walking out my door. I do it each and everytime I put on my cop face.

If I don’t do this I feel unprepared, if I do I know that I am prepared to the best of my ability, this ritual takes me about an hour and mostly involves me checking my equipment from my cuffs and extra hidden cuff keys to my backup gun and the quality of it’s ammo to my duty gun and the ammo contained in it. I clean and polish my uniform, shoes and leather gear and check the blade on the two knives I hide on my person.

Once dressed I will do draw practice for about 5 minutes to ensure none of my equipment on my belt interferes with my weapon as well as my BUG.

I place all that’s bad with my private life out of my mind, wish those near and dear to me well and as I walk out the door I remind myself that I will approach every encounter this day with four rules in mind.

I will be polite

I will be professional

I will have a plan to kill each person I meet

I will go home at the end of my shift
 
One has to be careful in this sort of topic. There are two extreme points of view that can rear their unsound heads.

One is that of the disgruntled alpha male. He insists that the man has been force-feminized by society, to the point where Men are no longer Men, and are all a bunch of purse-carrying nancy-boys with curled hair, tights, and big lollipops.

Often, this attitude comes from a self-absorbed jerk who's angry that it's not socially acceptable to smack your female secretary on the bottom anymore.

Men aren't any more "feminized" or dehorned now than they've ever been. Society continues to evolve, but those of us with the Y chromosome are still free to enjoy all of those manly activities, including football, shaving, and beer-drinking (since we're dealing in stereotypes anyway). This "society made me less manly" claptrap is every bit a logical fallacy is that "I'm a criminal becuase society made me one" theory.

The other extreme point of view is that of Hobbes, that men are beastly and that life in the wild is nasty, brutish, and short. These types often argue for the abolishment of weapons, and insist, like their spineless spiritual leader (Hobbes), that any amount of authoritarian control is okay, so long as it protects one from the predators of society and the evils men inflict upon one another.

This viewpoint is equally, if not more flawed, as those in authority are every bit as capable of being predators as your average street hood. Moreso, actually, as the street hood has to look out for the night watchman. But if the night watchamn is the one doing the mugging, well, who's watching him?

We humans are a great deal more than the sum of our parts. As has been said, we're capable of a level of complexity unparalleled in nature. We love, hate, listen to music, feed kittens, and kill our fellow man.

Sometimes the manliest macho men are the first ones to fall apart when things go sour, whereas the quiet mousey types find their fortitude and take charge.

Sometimes, people react exactly how you'd expect them to.

It's always hard to say.

I don't buy to much into the "warrior instinct" idea. Humans all have the same "instincts"; fire bad, eat when hungry, shelter from rain, fight or flight when threatened. There's a lot more free will involved in what makes each of us each of us, as well as our respective experiences.

One man may be the toughest tough guy, ready to deal with any situation. But given another upbringing, a different life, he could be unsure and unable to deal with danger or even stress.

In any case, many men and women enjoy guns for the same reasons they enjoy sports cars and the like. Now, the theory of one of my co-workers that a five-speed, manual transmission sporting automobile is the epitome of masculinity aside, I think the sporting/hobbyist enjoyment of weapons has more to do with the individual's experiences and background than it does any base instinct.
 
Hunter /killer ? No that's the wrong instinct .The instinct you're talking about is self preservation and the intelligence to make preparations to do so.Yes it has been bred out of many people.
 
Read Fruedian theories, especially on ID, Ego and Superego then reread your post, you might answer all your questions you presented.

Don't read too much into the titles of the stages that Frued labeled, or at least read with an open mind.

Charby
 
In any case, many men and women enjoy guns for the same reasons they enjoy sports cars and the like.
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And what are those reasons? Do those reasons act as an outlet which relieves the tension created by an unsatisfied urge that exists because of the hunter/killer instinct?

IMO I'd say yes. The sports car is a most outstanding example. Why have a sports car if you aren't trying to push the limits, to drive fast, to experience danger, get the blood flowing and all the other cliche' reasons. (maybe just to own it but I'm not talking about those guys - I'm talking about the guys who use the sports car for it's designed purpose).

Sports Cars driven hard and fast make the adrenaline flow. Nature invented adrenaline for a reason - to make it easier for the flight or fight response to occur. Speed up the heart, shut down blood flow to organs not necessary for immediate survival etc, etc. Sports cars get that reaction and relieves the tension that exists in a man who has the hunter/killer instinct by the sense of danger thus created and the subsequent release of adrenaline.

Ever talk to a combat vet. Without exception and as much as they hated it and the fear that went with it almost all will say they never felt more alive than when in combat. There's a reason for that not uncommon feeling combat vets have.

I suggest that the use of guns for hunting or even paper punching does to some extent the exact same thing (though maybe to a lesser extent than pushing a sports car hard). It relieves the tension created by having an unused/unfullfilled hunter/killer instinct.
 
..."It relieves the tension created by having an unused/unfullfilled hunter/killer instinct..."
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Ahhh... how many times have I heard ALL my shooting buddies (and myself) swear that a session at the range is either 'like a meditation' or 'takes away all the stress...'.....? Ahhh, yes.

And the day I realized I wasn't a "tomboy" (what a thoroughly horrible frickin' word to call a girl) but was rather a "warrior princess", well, that explained EVERYthing! I shoot because I'm a skill-builder; I shoot because I like feeling empowered and responsible. With emphasis on 'responsible'. I like knowing that I can, if need be, defend myself and my turf from interlopers and asshats, and I like going to the range once a week to remind myself that I can. Not to mention trying to shoot perfect targets just for the sake of it.

I engage in shooting matches a couple of times a year to both enjoy the company of my tribe and to prove that I can actually shoot better than a lot of other people in the tribe. Alpha female? You bet. And why not...?
 
Why have a sports car if you aren't trying to push the limits, to drive fast, to experience danger, get the blood flowing and all the other cliche' reasons. (maybe just to own it but I'm not talking about those guys - I'm talking about the guys who use the sports car for it's designed purpose).
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Picking up women? :evil:
 
I think it can also be learned or maybe genetically passed on. I was talking to my73 year old mother who is known to not be able to kill a fly (she will open the window and guide it out) about what would happen if there was a nuclear attack or large bioattack on the US. Of coarse since we live in the country and have everything we need (unless directly in the path) we wondered about the people from large cities and general panic stting in. She really surprised me and seriously just flat out stated "I guess we might have to blow the bridges" to protect oursleves from the panicked city folk. :what:
 
I think all humans have the hunter/killer instinct. It is just dulled or mutted by modern urban society. I work with many people who have been turned into total and complete whimps. Don't get me wrong, I cook, garden, play for long hours with my 2YO daughter and have been known to shed a tear (usually at the fly-by during the national anthem at a NASCAR race), but once you become a hunter you learn what you are capable of. Note, I didn't say gun owner. I bird and deer hunt. That first dove that I had to dispatch with my hands was tough, the first duck another hurtle, the turkey...the deer I had to hold down and cut their throat as I appologized and promised to spend more time at the range. All this from a former vegetarian, city dweller. I thank God, that I finally ended up an Alabama farm girl. None of this stuff shocks her.

Side note: I think it is a balancing act. Read the nightly news and it is littered with the stories of that that can not control that instinct.

tjg
 
I don't think we evolved so much from hunters (read: hunter/killer instincts) so much as we did from hunter/gatherers. Hunting required cleverness in stalking and killing 4-legged protein sources. Gathering ultimately required planning, organization and group skills that lead to farming and the domestication of protein sources. Hunting and gathering lead to an abundance of foodstuffs that left time for leisure, progress and the creation of "civilization".

It's all part of The Great Circle of Life that has given us lawyers, politicians and people who drive slow in the fast lane. Time to dust off that old hunter/killer instinct. ;)
 
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