The incredible arrogance of public employees

[Dex Sinister]

Recently, I happened to have to go into the local Social Security office – a tiny, maybe 1000 sq ft building, with an even tinier 10’x20’ lobby and reception room, with a total of four customer service windows, at least two of which are always closed.

The lobby features an armed private security guard, who alertly noticed that I was [horrors!] carrying a Buck-tool multi-tool on my belt. The exchange went: “Excuse me Sir, does that have a knife in it?†“Yup, it’s a multi-tool.†“I’m going to have to ask you to step outside with me.†“That’s okay, I’ll go put it in my car.†“Oh, okay.â€

So, I went and put the knife in my car, while my wife chatted with him, pointing out that metal pens and almost anything else are also “dangerous weapons†in the hands of anyone who wishes to use them as such. We spent the rest of the waiting time with him joking about purses as dangerous weapons.

There were a couple of amusing things about this exchange:

• The building, though it has several “no firearms or dangerous weapons†signs, doesn’t correctly cite 18 USC Sec. 930 as required by subsection (h) “Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, […] and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted….â€
• The knife in question has blades less than 2.5†long, specifically exempted by definition from classification as a “dangerous weapon†by subsection (g)(2) “ (g) As used in this section: (2) The term 'dangerous weapon' means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.â€
• Other knives above 2.5†lawfully carried under California law would seem to be exempted under subsection (d)(3) (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to - (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.â€
• Oddly, he didn’t seem interested at all in the horizontal knife sheath on my other side, where my spare magazine rides.

Now, while the question of lawful CCW carry in the S.S. office certainly is tangential here, two things really stood out in my mind about this interaction:

1. The incredible arrogance of our public servants, who now seem to think that they can demand that their employees, the taxpayers, strip themselves of all pointy objects before seeking audience with them, in vast excess of the law, and
2. I can't, for the life of me, see how an armed private security guard can be present in the building, because 18 USC Sec. 930 doesn’t have an exception for armed guards, whose only authority to carry firearms comes from CA, not Federal law, and who are not directly employed by either. [/list=1](d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
   (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
   (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
   (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
   
   Thoughts?
   
   Dex }:>=-

 

[RocketMan]

Therein lies your mistake, Dex. They are not "public employees", they are "public masters". The semantics have changed over the years.

 

[R.H. Lee]

.gov has long been too big, too arrogant, and has too much of our money.

Yesterday, on a local radio talk show, the host was advocating a proposal made by a state senator. - that two paid holidays per year per state employee be eliminated. This would save the state approx $20,000,000
(that's twenty MILLION dollars) per year. They get New Year's, Martin Luther King, Cesar Chavez, both Lincoln and Washington, Memorial Day,
July 4th, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, the Day AFter Thanksgiving, Christmas and on more of their choice.

It would be up to each agency to decide which two.

You should have heard the state employees calling up, whining and crying.

It's outta control man.

 

[Bill Hook]

Regarding holidays, it is not uncommon for folks to be told in non-profits or .gov entities that they MUST take off MLK day, despite it being about two weeks after New Year's and Christmas. Guess which holidays won't be cut.

I too have been disarmed of a Swiss Army Knife by the SS guard at the SS office. I hid it in the bushes since the guard wouldn't hold it. I also had to do the same at the Co. Courthouse.

 

[greyhound]

Cesar Chavez

What the heck holiday is that?

The Mexican boxer?

 

[R.H. Lee]

Cesar Chavez

http://www.ufw.org/cecstory.htm

organized the farmworkers.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The founding fathers would weep.

 

[Delmar]

Had a Federal guard at the VA-excuse me, the "Bureau of Veterans Affairs" tell me when I pulled out my pocket knife, a 2" Gerber, that I would have to return it to my vehicle.

He was cool about it-told me it was one of the most assinine rules he ever had to enforce and apologised for making me do the trip back and forth.

Had to get some documentation out of my files for another government agency-the non veteran office workers told me it would take 6 weeks.

I did not have that kind of time, so I called back a couple of more times, and got hold of one of the few veterans who worked there and explained my plight. He said "no problem-the others won't do it because they would have to work for a living."

Had my entire file copied and waiting for me at the desk when I showed up.
I offered to buy him lunch but he said that he was just doing his job.

When I got back home-Waco is a couple of hours away for me, I called and asked for his supervisor. Without getting into particulars with her-might have been a non vet and not appriciative of his actions, I let her know that he did a really fine job and he should be commended.

 

[WonderNine]

You should have heard the state employees calling up, whining and crying.

It's outta control man.

I work for state government. If you're not a hard core Bush hating liberal Democrat or a Bush loving big government guy then you're pretty much an anomaly. Most are Dems. It's all gonna come crashing down anyways, might as well take advantage of it while I can. Job security is nice.

 

[HankB]

a proposal . . . that two paid holidays per year per state employee be eliminated.

Back when I lived in the People's Republic of Minnesota, they had a statewide strike of public employees.

Garbage was still picked up, police and fire were on the job, street repairs continued, power and water were uninterrupted, mail was delivered, courts still functioned . . . in short, except for students at the University of Minnesota, who had to stand in longer lines during registration, virtually nobody noticed the strike! The "strikers" weren't missed!

Which told most people - those who paid taxes, anyway - that most state workers are unneccessary.

 

[WonderNine]

All state workers are unnecessary.

 

[another okie]

I suspect the armed security guard at the SS office would hang their hat on this clause:

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

I guess security is a lawful purpose, though it seems as if defending yourself would be just as lawful a purpose.

But no one is going to question someone with "security" on their shirt. I saw a security guard from one of our local Indian casinos carrying openly as he delivered mail to the post office. Now open carry is illegal here except for LEOs or while hunting, but because he had a polo shirt on with "Casino security" on it no one seemed to be bothered. (He is not, repeat not, a federal or tribal LEO, he's just a security guard.)

Maybe I'll get one printed up to wear in open carry states that says "Another Okie Security Company."

 

[Standing Wolf]

I had a few government jobs years ago. Without exception, everyone scurried about looking busy, but a.) the work being done was ludicrously inefficient and/or unnecessary by design, and b.) looking busy was much more important than actually achieving results.

It wasn't for me.

 

[goalie]

I used to work at the VA Medical Center in Minneapolis. I no longer do, despite the 5 weeks vacation a year that RN's start with and the carrying over of my military service time as senority. I couldn't stand the federal employee attitude.

 

[JohnBT]

"...that two paid holidays per year per state employee be eliminated. This would save the state approx $20,000,000 (that's twenty MILLION dollars) per year. "

That's plain ingnorant. I've worked for a state government for 29.5 years and WE GET PAID BY THE YEAR. You could make us work 365 days a year and it would cost the same thing. Actually, we'd have that many more days to spend your money. <chuckle>

Anybody who doesn't think that some of us are really working and doing useful things is waaaaay out of touch.

And about the following I only have one question - Aw heck, no I don't, it's just over the top hyperbole. Sheesh. "They are not "public employees", they are "public masters"." Go insult somebody else and quit wasting our time.

John

 

[Dex Sinister]

I suspect the armed security guard at the SS office would hang their hat on this clause: (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes. I guess security is a lawful purpose, though it seems as if defending yourself would be just as lawful a purpose.

Yeah, that'd be my guess too - makes one wonder if one complained what they'd say, and exactly how they'd plan to distinguish his "lawful purpose" from my lawful purpose. That'd make for interesting newsprint:

"Armed Guard arrested for having firearm in Federal Facility."

Of course the irony was that my wife was sitting there discussing "leathal purses" [apparently he'd been hit in the face by a few, and was pretty impressed] with a .45 in hers.

Dex }:>=-

 

[Dex Sinister]

Therein lies your mistake, Dex. They are not "public employees", they are "public masters". The semantics have changed over the years.

Yeah, I know. But I still remember my father helping "public servants" reorganize their priorities and remember who employeed them.

What bothers me is that now they seem perfectly fine with overtly lying to the public about what powers they actually have obtained by law.

Dex }:>=-

 

[SteelyDan]

I'm a lawyer who represents property owners in condemnation and land use disputes. In that capacity, I constantly deal with a very wide variety of city, county, and state employees. I could easily spend an hour or two summarizing my eye-opening experiences, but I don't have the energy so I'll limit it to two sentences. First, there are a very few "good ones" who actually understand their jobs in the proper context. Second, the vast majority suffer from a kind of tunnel-vision in which they either: (1) sincerely believe in what they are doing, and therefore cannot even conceive of anyone challenging their authority (these are the ones I can usually relate to and with whom I can have an intelligent discussion), or (2) sincerely believe in their authority, and therefore cannot even conceive of anyone challenging that authority.

 

[hammer4nc]

That's plain ingnorant. I've worked for a state government for 29.5 years and WE GET PAID BY THE YEAR. You could make us work 365 days a year and it would cost the same thing. Actually, we'd have that many more days to spend your money. <chuckle>

...

Go insult somebody else and quit wasting our time.

An eye-opening insight into the mindset of those who work on the other side of the government window. Dismiss, and goad them on the way out.

Disarming the public of minor weapons of convenience prior to such encounters might not be a bad idea under the circumstances.

 

[JohnBT]

So, do you agree or not with the claim that eliminating 2 holidays for state employees would save that state $20,000,000?

I still contend that's it's a silly statement and easily disproved.

(A minor temper flare deleted by Art.)

John

 

[Eskimo Jim]

I'd have to say that that's a very accurate portayal of the public employees that I've had the misfortune to meet.

I don't have a high opinion of government employees because I don't think that they are concerned with the consequences of doing a poor job. I have met and worked with some government employees that were very helpful, friendly and compentent, however they are in the distinct minority of their peers.

Your experiences might vary.

-Jim

 

[BSlacker]

I go in County and VA buildings all the time with dangerous weapons/knives and nobody cares, security looks them over and lets me go everytime. You do it by having lots of them, not just one, it overwhelms them and they blank out. Sometimes I have several blade type things in my bag. I am an outside repair person and bring in a bag of tools including knives and even a large axe sometimes just to get a reaction. Everytime I get let through, even letting me go around the metal detector when holding the axe. These folks are easy to get around. I see people just ignore them and walk by or set off the detectors and keep walking it is a joke. A good one is to hold a piece of metal in your hand when going through the detector then when they pass the wand over you the metal is in your hand and they miss it everytime just going over your body then set the detector off again and tell them it is the plate in your head. If they want to check it tell them you will point too where to scan and use the hand with the metal in it to point out the place, drives them crazy. When they ask for paper work just show them anything with the name of the place on it and they eat it up. Security is a joke at these places.

 

[Master Blaster]

As a government Employee, I would have to say that there are a great many of us who do a very important job and provide excellent services to the public. Most of the public think that we are lazy and unnecessay, that we should never get a raise, that we are arrogant and dont deserve any respect.

Now I dont know any of you but, I could say the same about most of the private sector folks I run across. When was the last time you walked into a large corporate outlet like the bank, or the grocery store or Walmart and were given fast and curteous service by friendly knowlegeable staff who were concerned with your satisfaction? Have you called the credit card company or the cable company lately to get a problem straightened out?
Hows the service at your doctors office or in the emergency room?
Have you hired a Contractor lately, How about a plumber or electrician?
Have you had your car repaired lately??

Bad attitudes and lousy service are not limited to government employees.


As for the importance or necessity of services provided by the government:

Would you like to be a police officer responsible for keeping the lid on dangerous crimminals?

How about the prisons, want to house a murderer in your home or be responsible for keeping a dangerous felon under control?

Roads- would you like to see them owned and maintained by private companies who need to make a profit, would you like to stop and pay a toll every 1/2 a mile or so, whatever the owner wanted to charge you???

The the water you drink, public education, airports, bridges and tunnels, (not everyone can afford private school or can do home schooling) public sanatation of all types, libraries, state universities who provide higher education at a reasonable cost. All of these are necessay services provided by the government. Services you use every day which are provided at a reasonable cost.

Many government employees are hardworking, dedicated folks who believe in contributing to the public good. Many could be making more money in the private sector, But they believe in giving something back and in doing some good for their fellow man.
Many Public sector employees are very much like Soldiers who serve their country because they want to make the world a better place and protect the freedoms we have in this great country of ours.

 

[Master Blaster]

I am an outside repair person and bring in a bag of tools including knives and even a large axe sometimes just to get a reaction.

Well aren't you just a wonderful guy, giving folks a hard time just for fun!!!

I know that all the repair folks I deal with are honest hard working and considerate, as well as competent, which is why I have to look under the hood of my car for lost tools everytime I get it fixed.

Fortunately after using 10 different auto repair businesses I found one that is HONEST and actually competent.

 

[Art Eatman]

This started off with the issue of "weapons" in government offices. Either stay with that or see the lock. There's already too much backing-and-forthing about public-sector employees and now private-sector folks and that just ain't gonna live.

I've been both and I've seen all kinds, and I categorically state that there're good and bad in both camps. EEEE-Nough.

Art