The journey to making my $400 Walmart gun a precision rifle. Needing some advice

The original concept of the .270 was found to be too fast on most applications with the 130s, the 150s were created to slow the cartridge down, the perk that comes with them (higher s.d. for larger game, or higher b.c. for wind bucking and/or longer shots) is just a natural bonus. Fwiw not all factory 150s shot well out of my buddy's rifle either, but since we have this beautiful capability to custom load to our preferences, I'd start with a plain Jane Speer or sierra 150 sp flat base, then btsp, if you have success, I strongly recommend the sst or btip, with prejudice to the sst, I just haven't yet seen a rifle that doesn't like them. I'll send you some links to make this endeavor more affordable.
Thanks man I appreciate it. If I remember correctly the SST fed and shot fine but the recoil damaged the Ballistic tip, which may or may not have affected anything at the range I typically shoot. And then the explosive exit I mentioned before. But like you said: 150s could be a whole different story.

I wonder how Nosler BT would fare? The polymer on theirs seems a bit tougher and the Ogive shape is similar to the SST
 
Thanks man I appreciate it. If I remember correctly the SST fed and shot fine but the recoil damaged the Ballistic tip, which may or may not have affected anything at the range I typically shoot. And then the explosive exit I mentioned before. But like you said: 150s could be a whole different story.

I wonder how Nosler BT would fare? The polymer on theirs seems a bit tougher and the Ogive shape is similar to the SST
If you find it difficult to get multiple bullet weights to perform with a particular powder, you may want to try a different powder.
 
Thanks man I appreciate it. If I remember correctly the SST fed and shot fine but the recoil damaged the Ballistic tip, which may or may not have affected anything at the range I typically shoot. And then the explosive exit I mentioned before. But like you said: 150s could be a whole different story.

I wonder how Nosler BT would fare? The polymer on theirs seems a bit tougher and the Ogive shape is similar to the SST
Iirc the mag length on a 770 will let you seat at given data for most 150s without being close enough to bruise the tips, at less than 300 yds though, I wouldn't worry much about a bruised tip. 3.25-3.285" should be OK. The sst and btips are similar enough in the polymer it'd be hard to say lot to lot. Performance wise, the btips are SLIGHTLY tougher, minimum impact fps: 1800, whereas the sst:1600 (generally speaking) which, along with the reliable accuracy I find in them from cartridge to cartridge, leans more in their favor, under 200 yds? You'd not likely notice a difference between the two, they're both a hollowpoint for hunting, the increase in mass and reduction in speed from a 130 to 150 will show a much bigger difference than switching from a 130 sst to a 130 btip.
 
Speaking of different powder: has anyone noticed any difference in velocity/charging/accuracy with SC style powders vs the same powder in regular cut? (H4831 vs H4831sc for example)

Only other powder I have used is IMR 4831 (I think) and happened to find best luck with h4831 so far
 
Speaking of different powder: has anyone noticed any difference in velocity/charging/accuracy with SC style powders vs the same powder in regular cut? (H4831 vs H4831sc for example)

Only other powder I have used is IMR 4831 (I think) and happened to find best luck with h4831 so far
No difference noticed here with h4831sc, haven't seen non sc in years though....
 
Appears H4350 is a really good alternative too. If I’m playing around with the 150s I’ll try that too if need be.

Just glad I have a well developed load and this is all just a “wild hair to see if I can” kinda thing lol. 130s would work for mule deer and antelope out west but if I were ever so lucky as to elk hunt I’d want AT LEAST a 150
 
Appears H4350 is a really good alternative too. If I’m playing around with the 150s I’ll try that too if need be.

Just glad I have a well developed load and this is all just a “wild hair to see if I can” kinda thing lol. 130s would work for mule deer and antelope out west but if I were ever so lucky as to elk hunt I’d want AT LEAST a 150
Or something bonded, partitioned, or monolithic 😉.
 
You’re exactly right! In reference to the “me” factor, that’s where the Boyd’s stock will come in. I’ve found that I’m better ergonomically with the AR/vertical hand position. So I’m going with the AT-ONE stock. When prone, my neck was killing me from moving up. (Another me factor) so the adjustable cheek well will be great.

I’m also figuring out what I’ll do for rests while testing because I was getting some bounce even on the cheap rest I had. I think laying off the energy drinks with my prescribed Ritalin will go a long way too 🤔

Beautiful gun btw!
Food and drink can throw off a good shoot/test. My dad always bought a dozen doughnuts before heading up the hill to a match. If we didn't wait till after the match, the scores tanked.
 
Food and drink can throw off a good shoot/test. My dad always bought a dozen doughnuts before heading up the hill to a match. If we didn't wait till after the match, the scores tanked.
While I brought snacks and drinks in ice chest to USPSA matches, I ate beef jerky and drank water during stages and reserved caffeinated sodas and sugary snacks til after the match or stop by favored taco/burrito place afterwards. And having good night's rest and good breakfast with light stretching/body warm up exercise (You do a lot of running around for USPSA) also help as hunger pains before the stage can definitely throw off your focus/concentration along with upset stomach, tired body and poor sleep the previous night.
 
OK, so good news: since the next step was sinking the bullet down to where the book says, I did so, and they cycle. If there’s another bullet in the magazine, I have to cycle the bolt back like I really mean it. But hey it cycles and after that first one, it does just fine. And no getting hung up on the way into the chamber and up the ramp. Chalking up the difficulty to a cheap gun.

So, since the lower charges is where the group started tightening up, I’m going down the ladder since I hadn’t hit a node, that direction in charges seems applicable. Plus wanting to avoid any pressure issues.

I’ll keep playing with these. Now that it’s cycling. If no luck, I’ll try something else and/or make some more of the tried and true load. I’ll update when I test these out!
 
So my ladder tests to find a node are typically .5gr increments at 3 shot groups. Mostly to try to save resources as best I can.

Having said that: let’s say you find a half way decent node and .5 more and .5 less is pretty bad. (this happened with my 300blk, hole in a hole but .5gr either way was horrible). But let’s pretend the node isn’t quite what you want.

Do you go .1 or. 2 either way? Where and how do you like to feel it out?
 
So my ladder tests to find a node are typically .5gr increments at 3 shot groups. Mostly to try to save resources as best I can.

Having said that: let’s say you find a half way decent node and .5 more and .5 less is pretty bad. (this happened with my 300blk, hole in a hole but .5gr either way was horrible). But let’s pretend the node isn’t quite what you want.

Do you go .1 or. 2 either way? Where and how do you like to feel it out?
Ladder up in smaller increments to start with, .5 works in .270 because of the huge charge weights, in .300 blackout, charge weights are more like 19 gr? So I'd ladder 19.0, 19.2, 19.4, 19.6, 19.8, etc, .2 gr increments, in .243 I ladder in .4 gr increments, in 7 stw, .7gr increments, in Grendel I would run .3 gr increments etc.
 
I admit I got fairly lucky in the grand scheme of things with the 300blk. Loaded several and with 2 different projectiles and got one clearly perfect load
 
This is how I usually find the lands on a bolt action.
- use a fired unsized case that wont flop around in the chamber but at the same time isn't too swollen.
- use the lee factory crimp die to tighten the neck just enough to keep the bullet from freely moving.
- easily chamber the dummy round say 10 times and measure the over all length each time or enough to be sure you have it.
- set that particular bullet say to 0.020" off the lands and use the FCD to crimp or a seating die if you don't use crimps in that ammo.
- keep the dummy round to set your seating die stem when you load that type bullet. Write the OAL on the dummy/setup round on the case so you can verify it hasn't moved before each use.
- Now load your powder charge test bullets to all the same length off this ogive setting and not the OAL as bullet noses vary in length but the ogive that meets the lands should be in the same place.
- if your cases look over pressure before you reach the velocity you think you should have back off the lands about 0.005" and redo the powder charge testing. If no pressure signs then move closer by 0.005" (0.015" from lands) and do another charge test.
- start low on your charge testing (10% below max). On big cases I usually use .3 or .4 grain charge test increments but .2 on smaller cases and even .1 on pistol cases w/ small powders.

Your groups should draw together and move up in target placement. About the same time the elevation of the groups stops increasing groups will start growing and also start giving flyers. Use the center of the group for reference and not the highest or lowest bullet in the group.

In general you can tune the charge for best groups at any freebore distance but keep in mind, you have to redo the charge testing anytime you change OAL and compare the best group of each test set to tell which freebore distance is optimum (a lot of testing).
 
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So my ladder tests to find a node are typically .5gr increments at 3 shot groups. Mostly to try to save resources as best I can.

Having said that: let’s say you find a half way decent node and .5 more and .5 less is pretty bad. (this happened with my 300blk, hole in a hole but .5gr either way was horrible). But let’s pretend the node isn’t quite what you want.

Do you go .1 or. 2 either way? Where and how do you like to feel it out?

My suggestion is to shoot it again to see if your results repeat on a different day. My suspicion is the load that looks "good" isn't quite as good as it appears, and the loads on either side that are "bad" may not be quite as bad as they appear. I recommend shooting the same test again on a different day to see if it repeats.

If you just have to monkey with it and try something different (I'll admit I'd probably have to do something different too), I'd recommend going up and down 0.2 or 0.3 grains from the load you're focusing on as a potential "good" load. When I work up loads for my production grade target rifle (a 6.5 Creedmoor), I usually work in .3 or .4 grain increments. (For my 30-06 and similar sized cases, I usually work in .5 grain increments, but when loading for those hunting rifles I stop load development as soon as I reach "good enough.") I'd load five steps centered on your currently selected powder charge. For example, -0.6, -0.3, 0.0, +0.3, +0.6. Make sure you include the load you think you've identified so you can shoot it again and see if it repeats.

I wouldn't bother trying to vary your powder charge by less than .2 grains unless you are using a lab-grade scale. Most reloading scales are only accurate to +/- 0.1 grain anyway, so there's diminishing returns in trying to load in increments less than 0.2 grains (or really less than 0.3 grains, IMO). YMMV.
 
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Speaking of different powder: has anyone noticed any difference in velocity/charging/accuracy with SC style powders vs the same powder in regular cut? (H4831 vs H4831sc for example)

Only other powder I have used is IMR 4831 (I think) and happened to find best luck with h4831 so far
We really like the SC in the 270 short mag
 
My suggestion is to shoot it again to see if your results repeat on a different day. My suspicion is the load that looks "good" isn't quite as good as it appears, and the loads on either side that are "bad" may not be quite as bad as they appear.
After watching all 15 of Johnny's Reloading Bench channel videos in attempt to clone 77 gr OTM (Open Tip Match) Mark 262 by Black Hills to produce 2750 fps out of 20" barrel, I noticed using 0.3 gr ladder tests often produced inconclusive groups - https://www.black-hills.com/shop/mk-262-mod-1-c-mil-pack/556mm/


His 11th video did a comparison testing of best loads from previous ladder testing with each powder but one of his qualifier was 2750 fps which looked away from lower powder charge load that produced smaller group trends that I believe should have been investigated further in identifying lower accuracy nodes (He essentially only looked for higher accuracy nodes).

So I decided to repeat his load development using RMR 75 gr BTHP and field/range reloading setup with primed brass to allow 0.1 gr incremental load testing. Instead of jumping in 0.3 gr increments, I can drop powder 0.1 gr incremental charges then seat the bullet to verify POI from POA but be able to load however many rounds it takes to verify accuracy nodes instead of 5 rounds.

Sure this approach is exhaustive and time consuming, but I am retired with unlimited reloading budget and have ready 30 minute access to 100 yard shooting spot. If my exhaustive approach identify same accuracy nodes as 0.3 gr increment 5 shot groups with 18"/20" .223 Wylde 1:8 heavy barrels, then we could give nod to 0.3 gr ladder test. But if my approach results are different, then we have something to talk about further.

I have H335, BL-(C)2 (Looking for Tac, Benchmark, AR Comp, Varget, etc.) along with CCI #41/Fiocchi SR primers and will repeat his testing done for 77 gr OTM with BL-(C)2/Tac as shown in below video (I will repeat his other testing with 62 gr SS109 and RMR 69 gr BTHP and H335)
 
My suggestion is to shoot it again to see if your results repeat on a different day. My suspicion is the load that looks "good" isn't quite as good as it appears, and the loads on either side that are "bad" may not be quite as bad as they appear. I recommend shooting the same test again on a different day to see if it repeats.

If you just have to monkey with it and try something different (I'll admit I'd probably have to do something different too), I'd recommend going up and down 0.2 or 0.3 grains from the load you're focusing on as a potential "good" load. When I work up loads for my production grade target rifle (a 6.5 Creedmoor), I usually work in .3 or .4 grain increments. (For my 30-06 and similar sized cases, I usually work in .5 grain increments, but when loading for those hunting rifles I stop load development as soon as I reach "good enough.") I'd load five steps centered on your currently selected powder charge. For example, -0.6, -0.3, 0.0, +0.3, +0.6. Make sure you include the load you think you've identified so you can shoot it again and see if it repeats.

I wouldn't bother trying to vary your powder charge by less than .2 grains unless you are using a lab-grade scale. Most reloading scales are only accurate to +/- 0.1 grain anyway, so there's diminishing returns in trying to load in increments less than 0.2 grains (or really less than 0.3 grains, IMO). YMMV.
So far with this particular bullet I haven’t found a node yet, but the groups started coming together (if you want to call it that) as I went down. Problem is: per the book it’s slower than I’d like. BUT if it hits and hits accurately, who cares right? This gun won’t spin it like a top like the bullet may want, so slower may be better, if the gun/powder likes this bullet at all.

Gonna make up a couple more going what I feel is the right direction in .5 increments for now. I did make the “closest so far” load again because I had your same line of thinking. Next day out should say a lot. Luckily I live 15 min from our property!
 
So far with this particular bullet I haven’t found a node yet, but the groups started coming together (if you want to call it that) as I went down. Problem is: per the book it’s slower than I’d like. BUT if it hits and hits accurately, who cares right? This gun won’t spin it like a top like the bullet may want, so slower may be better, if the gun/powder likes this bullet at all.

Gonna make up a couple more going what I feel is the right direction in .5 increments for now. I did make the “closest so far” load again because I had your same line of thinking. Next day out should say a lot. Luckily I live 15 min from our property!

Have you tried shooting factory ammo using this bullet out of your rifle yet? It won't tell you a lot because one can usually improve on factory ammo with handloads, sometimes substantially, but factory ammo can be a useful barometer for whether a barrel likes a bullet or not. If you shoot a few groups of factory and they are smaller than what you are seeing with handloads, then you know something about your process or components needs to change. But if the factory ammo is grouping bigger than what you're seeing with your handloads, and what you're seeing with handloads isn't up to your standards, it may be time to give up on the bullet (at least if you've tried a couple of powders already).

It's been my experience that when I have a barrel that likes a particular bullet, I don't have to fiddle with it a lot to get acceptable accuracy. Sure, fine tuning can do great things, and with enough fiddling you can usually get about any rifle/bullet combination to perform acceptably. But it's a lot easier when working with a bullet your barrel likes to begin with. As an example, I have an old Remington 700 in 30-06 that hates modern pointy bullets. Super long throat so you can't even seat 150s out far enough to get within spitting distance of the lands. That rifle gets along just fine with more traditionally shaped 165s and 180s. Bullets that like to jump (or don't mind it) do well in it; bullets that don't like jump take a lot of fiddling to get them to shoot well. I don't bother trying any more and just feed it what it likes (or did before I bought a Tikka that's less particular).
 
Have you tried shooting factory ammo using this bullet out of your rifle yet? It won't tell you a lot because one can usually improve on factory ammo with handloads, sometimes substantially, but factory ammo can be a useful barometer for whether a barrel likes a bullet or not. If you shoot a few groups of factory and they are smaller than what you are seeing with handloads, then you know something about your process or components needs to change. But if the factory ammo is grouping bigger than what you're seeing with your handloads, and what you're seeing with handloads isn't up to your standards, it may be time to give up on the bullet (at least if you've tried a couple of powders already).

It's been my experience that when I have a barrel that likes a particular bullet, I don't have to fiddle with it a lot to get acceptable accuracy. Sure, fine tuning can do great things, and with enough fiddling you can usually get about any rifle/bullet combination to perform acceptably. But it's a lot easier when working with a bullet your barrel likes to begin with. As an example, I have an old Remington 700 in 30-06 that hates modern pointy bullets. Super long throat so you can't even seat 150s out far enough to get within spitting distance of the lands. That rifle gets along just fine with more traditionally shaped 165s and 180s. Bullets that like to jump (or don't mind it) do well in it; bullets that don't like jump take a lot of fiddling to get them to shoot well. I don't bother trying any more and just feed it what it likes (or did before I bought a Tikka that's less particular).
That I have not done. But you definitely have a point. The box stuff is so expensive but then again so is all this testing lol
 
So most recently I have had some issues with the cycling of this rifle. It’s not just the load or the bullet because I have made a few more of my previous load to test (soft point tip, never had a problem before)

It’s the weirdest thing because I’ll easily chamber the first round of the magazine. And no matter whether I load two rounds, three rounds or 4, the first one sticks on the next bullet in the chamber then cycles the rest perfectly fine.

The assumption is that this is a mag issue but I haven’t the slightest clue what it could be if it’s not or what I could try to fix it. If they were pointed slightly upward in the mag, every round would be doing it so I can’t really tell. Any ideas?

Brass is trimmed to proper spec and the bolt is catching the brass of the next bullet in the mag. I also tried this with an empty chamber, putting the full mag in and trying to cycle. Still hit and got stuck.

If I give it a quick, powerful “oomf” it cycles but that’s far beyond unacceptable
 
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