The pitfalls of relying on reloaded ammo.

[mountainroads]

At least relying on SOMEONE ELSE's reloads. One of my previous threads documented feeding issues I was having with my accurized 1911 Colt .45 auto, i.e. its fussy eating habits. I seem to have solved that by sticking with factory FMJ hardball. Big thanks again to those who offered suggestions and advice.

Moving on to the next piece I'd like to be certain of reliability with, my 9mm SBR. It too sometimes jams at the feed ramp. Interestingly, not on the first round up, but pretty consistently on the second. Personally, I'm not a big fan of owning a gun I might have to count on, but not able to trust for reliability. For the record, this is bone-stock, as provided by the manufacturer (IMI), with a general reputation for dependability even in adverse conditions. In other words, it should be pretty forgiving.

Attached is a picture of a couple of the culprits. I showed them to several of the range masters and one of them identified the problem pretty quickly. It's probably really hard to see in the picture, but see if anyone can discern what the issue is. My title should give you a starting clue. I'm now wondering if the same thing was happening to my .45, since it's very likely the same person did the reloading on all of the reloaded ammo I purchased at the time. This was decades ago, so no way of finding out. Thanks for looking.

- MR

 

[Hugger-4641]

Sorry for your misfortune.
I have three comments about it:
One, there are very few people I trust enough to shoot thier handloads. I can count them on one hand.
Second, I would think you would have felt that while loading the magazine.
Third, if I or one one of the few people I trust had loaded that, we would have almost certainly caught it in the case guage. Every pistol rd I load gets checked in a Wilson case gauge.
If you are going to continue the practice of shooting handloads of unknown source, I would recommend buying a case guage and a go/no go gauge for C.O.L.

 

[Milt1]

I can't see the pictures that you mention, however, I would never rely on someone else's reloaded ammo while concealed carrying. Additionally, I would be very hesitant to shoot, other than my own, reloaded ammo at a shooting range. You shoot your ammo either handloaded or purchased and I'll shoot mine but i won't shoot yours!

 

[KristopheCraig]

I am a little clueless, can you pls explain what did the person do to the ammo?

 

[Hugger-4641]

I am a little clueless, can you pls explain what did the person do to the ammo?

If you look close at the pics, the case mouth is crushed. Since it is only on one side, either it happened by getting jammed into feed ramp in the gun, or whoever loaded it was not paying attention and didn't center the rd in holder during seating.

 

[AK Hunter]

I clean out the dud buckets at our large club range & 3/4 of them are reloads.
There is no way I would trust some elsa's reloaded ammo.

 

[mountainroads]

I'm sorry. I should've been more clear. The cartridges shown were retrieved from the jammed gun. They didn't look like that when loaded into the magazine.

@Hugger-4641 & Milt1: I appreciate your thoughts and generally agree with the idea of being very selective about whose reloads you shoot, esp. for personal defense. In this case, it was a known trusted source friend of the FFL person I did business with. Never a question of "hot" loads, etc. I reloaded 12-ga myself and bartered reloaded bird rounds for stuff I wanted. I still have boxes and boxes of lead shot loads.

@Milt1: Not sure why you can't see the picture.

Magazines used (25 rnd and 32 rnd) were not overloaded, btw.

- MR

 

[CQB45ACP]

Yessiree yet another lesson to not use others' reloads.

 

[dh1633pm]

I am not sure the OP wanted to debate the wisdom of shooting someone else’s reloads In this thread versus the cause of the failures. Makes me think of the mags being used. After the first shot, what position is the second round showing? A manual cycle of the action might give some clues. A second question is OAL. Since it’s a reload, does the same problem present with a factory load? Is the OAL within spec?

 

[Soonerpesek]

A second question is OAL

Looks to be different COAL's in the pic....?
Maybe mouths still have some flare in them....?
Kinda hard to be detective when we have not much to go by other than a not so clear pic and a hint that someone who put hands on the rounds deciphered what is wrong...
Kinda like "here's a pic of my ammo, what powder was used...?"

 

[goon]

To mess up the case mouth like that you would either have to seat the bullet incorrectly, or not crimp enough to remove the bell from the expander die. I’ve seen this one time on old 3D remanufactured 38 Special ammo in the early 2000’s. One round came out of the box like this.

 

[PO2Hammer]

If they looked fine when loading them in the mag, isn’t the gun in question?

 

[Bill M]

I have a friend who loads commercially, and a while back he started powder coating, knowing I have purchased some blue bullets to load for my granddaughter, (her favorite color), he gave me some. At out next shoot he gave her a box of his reloads, and everything worked well until the third stage, and her gun, (Glock 17) locked up. I had to get my brother in law to smack the frame/grip with his hand while I held the slide against the table. She reshot the stage, and I told my friend he had missed sizing that case, he put it in his 1911 style 9mm, (Rock Island Armory), and it chambered, asked what's the problem. I took the barrell out of my G34, and said try that, couldn't even force it in, (I did have to drive it out). He has expensive case blocks to check fitment, and we stuck it in there, had to drive it out. He loads thousands a week, and has no problems, but I'm convinced "that" case somehow missed the rollsizer, as well as the check block. I ran it through my Lee FCD, and chambered, and shot it at the next match!

 

[dh1633pm]

Yes @PO2Hammer. Everything and everything is suspect. Troubleshooting is always about what you know. What ya don’t know is what’s broke. What you do know is how it should. Easy words, time consuming in practice.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Is the gun new?
Maybe they’re catching the case mouth on a sharp edge of the feed ramp?

 

[hdwhit]

Unless you have been loading with somebody since you were 17, never trust another's reloads.

 

[Captain*kirk]

Visually, the ogives look slightly different. Might just be an optical illusion?

 

[mountainroads]

I am not sure the OP wanted to debate the wisdom of shooting someone else’s reloads In this thread versus the cause of the failures. Makes me think of the mags being used. After the first shot, what position is the second round showing? A manual cycle of the action might give some clues. A second question is OAL. Since it’s a reload, does the same problem present with a factory load? Is the OAL within spec?

The 25 rnd mag is factory. Came with the rifle. Not positive about the 32 rnd. Could be aftermarket. Only visible difference is the numbers in the side of the mag indicating the number of loaded rounds aren't painted white, as they are on the factory mag. No other markings on either.

Second round jammed into the feed ramp. No problems encountered with factory loads.

Took some measurements. Dented cartridge #1:
Diameter at base (above the extracting groove) = .371 in.
Diameter at the top of the rim = .365 in.
COAL/COL = 1.130

Dented cartridge #2:
Diameter at base (above the extracting groove) = .374 in.
Diameter at the top of the rim = .367 in.
COAL/COL = 1.127

For comparison, factory cartridge sample (Federal, American Eagle, 124 gr. FMJ):
Diameter at base (above the extracting groove) = .375 in.
Diameter at the top of the rim = .361 in.
COAL/COL = 1.130

I have no idea what spec should be for these cartridges.

- MR

 

[Soonerpesek]

Second round jammed into the feed ramp.

- MR

You stated someone already figured it out.................what was their assessment.....?

 

[mountainroads]

Is the gun new?
Maybe they’re catching the case mouth on a sharp edge of the feed ramp?

Gun isn't new. It's probably only had a couple of hundred rounds through it, though.

 

[mountainroads]

You stated someone already figured it out.................what was their assessment.....?

Playing catchup. Getting there.

 

[mountainroads]

I wasn't being sarcastic when I said it might be hard to tell what the problem is from the pictures. The assessed problem was a little more subtle than an obviously bunged up case lip. The feedback I received was the case had been flared to accept the bullet during reloading and then not completely resized afterwards. There's a detectable expansion and ridge at the rim not present on the factory ammo, even though there's not a lot of difference, measurement-wise. The case rim caught on the bottom of the feed ramp.

I didn't have time to go back and retest with fully loaded mags using only factory ammo. That'll have to wait for next weekend.

Thanks for all the great ideas and feedback, guys. Much appreciated.

- MR

 

[mountainroads]

Maybe mouths still have some flare in them....?

This !!

 

[KristopheCraig]

If you look close at the pics, the case mouth is crushed. Since it is only on one side, either it happened by getting jammed into feed ramp in the gun, or whoever loaded it was not paying attention and didn't center the rd in holder during seating.

Thanks, I would have never noticed it by myself.

 

[mountainroads]

Thanks, I would have never noticed it by myself.

Just to reemphasize - the dented case mouth was caused by the misfeed. The cartridges looked fine when loaded into the magazine. The misfeed was caused by a slightly flared case mouth, causing the lip to hang up on the feed ramp. I plan to confirm via further testing using only factory load ammo.

- MR