The principle or dilemma of "Counterproductive Over-Investment" in defensive arms

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Do you experience this? What I mean is, spending so much on a defensive use gun and/or accessories for same, that you get to the point where you no longer want to carry it (for fear of confiscation - if only temporary - in the event of a self-defense use), or no longer want to leave it in the vehicle, or outside of the safe in the house, due to theft concerns when you're not home, in which case it's not available for self-defense, in which case you pretty much wasted your money (save range sessions & bragging rights), no matter how sweet the rig is.

I'd admit to being guilty; one of the reasons I sold my tricked out Saiga 12 - the main reason really, because it functioned nicely. The tricked out SP-01 with TLR-2 now resides in the safe, with the Bersa Thunder 9 instead at the bedside. What the heck is wrong with me!?

See poll. Aside from carry arms (home defense), the problem can be eliminated by a continual habit of putting in safe upon leaving, and taking out of safe when home, but life happens, and so THAT doesn't happen (at least not regularly).

 

[HKUSP45C]

I buy guns to use, and I do so regardless of their perceived value or actual cost.

I carry my tricked out "BBQ" 1911 when I'm of a mood or my HK when weather permits. I think that planning for statistically insignifcant events like the possibility of a confiscation because of a defensive shooting can, itself, be counter-productive.

Before someone points out that using a defensive firearm in an actual SD scenario it also a statistically insignificant probability I'll re-butt in that case it isn't about the odds, it's the stakes.

If some cow-town Sheriff wants my piece after it saved my life, he can have it. I'll make more money, they keep making more guns. If some crack-head wants to take a plasma cutter to my safe when I'm gone for the week and steal my guns well, that's exactly why I pay insurance premiums.

Except in the case of tremendous sentimental value causing a gun to become so invaluable as to be preserved against virtually any damage or loss I say "Guns, even very nice and expensive ones, are tools and toys, use the heck out of 'em."

 

[ARNETT44]

I have almost the opposite problem. I spent so much on so many that they don't really matter, except for different usage. I leave them in my truck, sometimes forget where I put it. And have to do inventories once in a while to see if I have everything. I do have a large safe and thats where they are supposed to be when not in use, but its like the tool you dont put back where it belonged and need it. Not to say I leave guns lying around all the time. But sometimes dont put them back where they belong.

 

[Bill_Rights]

I use modestly priced gear.

 

[Zundfolge]

My EDC pistol is a Steyr S40 ... I know if something happens to it (damage, confiscation, etc) that I'll never be able to replace it ... so I bought a S&W SW99 compact and have decided after carrying it for a couple months that frankly I like the Steyr so much that I've gone back to carrying it ... consequences be damned.

Maybe if I find myself with some cash I'll buy an M40 and cut the grip down to S40 size or something.

Anyway, this is the main reason I've never bought a Dan Wesson Commander Bobtail in 10mm.

 

[ny32182]

I carry a Glock, one nice thing about it is that I can buy as many as I want/need and don't care about them getting used/worn. That said, if I were ever in a situation where I needed a gun to save my life, I think the very last thing I would care about in the aftermath would be what gun I used or how much it cost.

 

[Mags]

I always put my firearms in the safe when I am not home. I do not have children so them being curious about my firearms is not my concern.(though if i did have children they would know a gun is not a toy) The main reason I lock my guns up when I am gone is nothing would suck more than to come home after someone has broken in your house to find the criminals are still there now armed with your very own gun.

 

[JohnBT]

I carry a Rohrbaugh, one nice thing about it is that I can buy as many as I want/need and don't care about them getting used/worn.

John

 

[catspa]

Dr. Tad, I don't have exactly that problem, but one similar. My counter-productive over-investment manifests itself most often in terms of quantity.

For example, why should a guy who already owns several single action revolvers buy another one? Or hunting rifles - between, say, .243 and 30-06, how many do I need to put the occasional deer in my freezer? At least with .22 rifles, I can justify having lots of them because sometimes my city friends come out to visit.

But when I'm standing in the gun shop right after payday, fondling a nice smooth M70, the logical part of my mind, asking "What will this one do that the ones you have at home won't do?" gets stuffed back in the corner, and before you know it I'm attaching little wire hangers to the lid of my gun safe to exceed its maximum occupancy by just one more. And heaven forbid one of my co-workers shows up with an old gun they want to sell...

I guess that's the downside to living in a modern society and having disposable income. How I long for the olden days when each pioneer had one gun that had to do it all for him, because that's all he could afford.

Parker

 

[ByAnyMeans]

I use a Glock 26 with ten or twelve round for carry purposes and put a G19 magazine with spacer in when it goes to nightstand duty. Also have a Keltec p3at for my pocket and a Winchester 1300 speedpump by my bed. All were purchased slightly used and total under $900.

 

[ny32182]

Now counter-productive quantity is an idea I can get on board with easily. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is at least a little guilty of this.

If you've got eight CCW pistols and never practice, the money you were going to spend on the 9th would likely be much better spent on ammo, range time, training classes, etc.

 

[jakemccoy]

All my guns are tools that are replaceable. I don't view guns as collector items. I became a gun owner late in life (at 33 years old). It's just not in my blood to be view firearms as art or whatever. Don't get me wrong. I do highly appreciate a properly working tool for the job.

 

[Isher]

"When Ruthie says come see her
In her honky-tonk lagoon,
Where I can watch her waltz for free
'Neath her Panamanian moon.
An' I say, "Aw come on now,
You must know about my debutante."
An' she says, "Your debutante just knows what you need
But I know what you want."
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end,
To be stuck inside of Mobile
With the Memphis blues again."

- Bob Dylan


isher

 

[mljdeckard]

Yes, I would rather replace my Kimber after a defensive shooting than a Nighthawk custom. Yes, I would rather replace my SKS as a truck gun than my heirloom M-1 carbine.

BUT, I doubt that my grandfather, who got that carbine from the NRA in the 50s would tell me it is a good idea to let myself get killed because I was afraid to use it to save my life. If he kept it all those years, handed it to my father, who handed it to me, and it saves a loved one's life ONE TIME, it's worth it.

I don't feel like overspending, but on the other hand, it makes little sense to underspend either. If it isn't solid, reliable gear, you shouldn't hang your life on it. Spend what you need to, price arguments don't make much sense when you're fighting for your life.

 

[JohnBT]

The same conversation occurs when it comes to high-end shotguns. "I could never take that out and use it." Yet many people do. I suppose it's like driving a Ferrari or Maserati for a daily driver... if you can afford it, why not?

"view firearms as art"

It's an attitude that can be learned. For instance, consider the Fabbri shotgun. Functionally perfect in every way, yet artistic.

“The details. A Fabbri gun is absolutely perfect. Not a flaw, not a burr, not anything that would cause that gun mechanical failure. They are mechanically perfect, and as close to perfection in an over-and-under shotgun there is."

"All 150 individual parts of a shotgun are manufactured in the Fabbri workshop -- an entire shotgun completing a rigorous 1,500 production steps."

"...consider that the business employs only 16 people who make approximately 30 shotguns per year."

All of these quotes are from "A Conversation With Tullio Fabbri"

"Purdy, Holland & Holland and Boss. Yet while these institutions have been making shotguns for hundreds of years, Mr. Fabbri’s father, Ivo, started the firm in 1965. The remarkable trajectory of Fabbri is a testament to the craftsmanship and vision that catapulted this tiny shotgun company straight to the top."

www.shotgunlife.com/Art-of-the-Gun/a-conversation-with-tullio-fabbri.html

 

[zbock]

I have imposed a self limit of one hand gun on myself so this very thing does not happen. It's tough but I think it's for the best (I can get a little too excited about things, and guns are something that are very easy to get excited about!).

 

[SquirrelNuts]

I have refrained from purchasing a gun before for that reason, so I voted "yes."

 

[SudSlinger]

my m4 is slowly but surely sliding down this slippery slope....

 

[SquirrelNuts]

I bought a brand new Dodge Ram 4x4 when I was 17 years old. I treated that thing like a baby and I was so afraid to scratch it or dent it. I would take it off road and on trails, but I was super careful. The first scratch was painful. After that, they became less painful, and then became badges of honor. I treat guns the same way, and I am most comfortable carrying them once they are "broken in."

 

[Ala Dan]

I voted YES, 100% guilty~!

I have a pretty wealthy investment in firearms (particulary handguns);
that I have picked and chosen with care over the year's. I would hate
too think of a thief relieving me of any of these prized possessions.
I take great care in ensuring that won't come to pass~! Therefore, I DO
NOT discuss my security systems that are in place on an open forum~!

Also, when I travel I carry the least expensive firearm that I own for
defensive purposes; due mainly to the fear of confiscation. For me,
that would be a toss up between two .380 caliber weapons; a KEL-
TEC P3AT, or a Bersa duo-tone- both currently under the $300 bar~!

 

[Ed Ames]

I voted "No, I don't worry..." but my definition of "really expensive" overlaps with some definitions of "modestly priced."

 

[Frank Ettin]

I've got a couple of 1911s done for me by Heirloom Precision. I've practiced with them enough to generate a little holster wear. And while I probably wouldn't carry one of them on an every day basis, I sure would for a special occasion.

BTW, this is my hunting gun



Not a Fabri, but nice enough.

 

[JohnBT]

More than nice enough. My hunting guns range from a '93 870 Express to a synthetic camo SX-2 to an SX-1. And on sunny days a Guerini 28 ga.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Thanks, John. I have to say I've looked at a Guerini 28 ga. a few times -- a sweet handling gun.

BTW, I went to the Safari Club convention last January, and saw some Fabris in the flesh. Be still my heart.

 

[browningguy]

I own a wide variety, from a Yugo SKS to a Gr. IV BAR, and a couple of customs, that's just in rifles. I use them all, I do have slips for the high grade pieces to minimize damage but all of them wear battle scars from hunting and shooting.