Or a couple of nuclear blasts and a war in Korea.
The realities of high cost of ammo
- Thread starter nathan
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Or a couple of nuclear blasts and a war in Korea.
UKWildcatFan
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Queen_of_Thunder
member
I guess you have been in a coma these past months so let me be the first to welcome you back.
Regardless of a crises prices go up over time. This mess is not going away. Its driven by politics and so far we are on the losing end. Gun control will be a major issue in the primarys and 2014 general election. It will continue into the 2016 elections. The writing is on the wall so open your eyes and read it.
it seems we are slipping into 3rd world status. we are going backwards. for 40 years I bought ammo as I needed it never had trouble. I think US gun and ammo makers colluded with the govt to eliminate norinco from making guns and ammo for the US. they were starting to make all the classic guns. I have an 1897 win pump the trench broom heat shield and all. it is better made then originals. US gun and ammo makers and especially M14 makers who seem not able to make a gun with the same amount of steel in a sledge hammer for less then 2000. if the ban was lifted there would be billions of rounds here
JRH6856
Member
It will be good when prices get back to normal. But when were they normal?
Something to consider: I have an old (empty) ammo box. WWB .45ACP FMJ purchased off the shelf at a gun store in Dallas in 1980. The price tag on the box is $21.40. In 2013 dollars, that's the equivalent of $60.30.
Something to consider: I have an old (empty) ammo box. WWB .45ACP FMJ purchased off the shelf at a gun store in Dallas in 1980. The price tag on the box is $21.40. In 2013 dollars, that's the equivalent of $60.30.
bayesian
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Can we start recycling these threads?
SabbathWolf
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JerryC
Member
I can't even find any .22 lr ammo here in Jacksonville. I had stocked up, but am now down to about 1000 rounds, as I go shooting with my daughter 2-3 times a months. Told her we have to wait to go shooting again until I can get some more .22. 9mm and .45 are plentiful, but she likes to shoot the .22 
No need to be snide just because you're not understanding my statement.
I'm not disagreeing with the current shortage of ammunition and how that has affected pricing, both private and retail. I'm disagreeing with your assessment that prices will remain this high and supply will remain this low, with no end in sight.
I'm saying then end is in sight, based upon the fact that I'm seeing more ammo at "normal" prices at local shops and online bulk is remaining in-stock for longer and longer periods of time.
As I mentioned in previous posts, I heard this same talk in '08 and things returned to normal. Were you in this game back then? If so, what makes you think this round is so much different? I would just like to here factual reasons, not social and political speculation.
Social factors are factual reasons, come to that. Not as concrete as rising prices for metals like brass and lead, which they are rising, or that ammunition manufactures are, by and large, still using the same equipment to make ammunition that they were in '08 (few upgrades in production) but social factors are typically more impactful than these reasons in any event. Socially and politically, there are some differences between now and '08. You didn't see "exactly this same type of thing in 08. For one, the word "ban" never escaped the lips of a single Democratic politician, other than to deny they intended to pursue one, or by opponents of the Democratic Party who were trying to promote the idea that one would occur "as soon as they are in office". Some people believed that. Some people didn't. Never happened though. So this time is different because they are talking openly about doing a ban and some places have actually instituted bans. There's no ambiguity where someone can argue that "ahhh, they aren't gonna do nuthin'...they know we'd vote 'em out." Since there is no ambiguity about it, more people are going to want to get what they can before it is gone. Concrete statements and actions by politicians are fueling higher demand. This is a fact.
What is you counter argument for why there is an "end in sight" for high demand? What's your belief on a time line for when it will be back to "normal"? I'm not sure that you seeing a few caliber brands in shops somewhere actually equals an end to the shortage. I've seen no shortage of 30-06, 30-30, or .243 this whole time. Just because those may be back on the shelves doesn't mean that .223, .308 or 9mm and .45ACP are going to diminish in demand. I am of the belief that an "end" to the current demand may not come until at least the end of this year, 2013, and it may not come until 2016 when new elections are done. Frankly there are a lot of people looking for ammo out there.
On prices, I'm seeing the opposite to what you are seeing. I'm seeing boxes of 9mm and .45ACP going UP in price, not coming down, when I look at vendors on the 'net. Checking some of the "deal" websites like ammoseek and gunbot shows that boxes of 50 9mm FMJ are going for 50.00 a box. This might explain why stocks are staying "longer and longer". What's more scary is the fact that eventually they do sell out even at these prices. That indicates to me an extraordinary demand and short supply.
leadcounsel
member
Hard to justify plinking when ammo costs 50 cents to 1.50 per shot. No more blasting away, that's for sure.
But a change in shooting is probably good. More tactical and such.
But a change in shooting is probably good. More tactical and such.
silicosys4
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I disagree. While overall the long term cost of ammo will increase...as it has done for the last 100 years...there are no legitimate economic reason, or manufacturer-based reason, that the current prices will remain the long term norm. The current prices are absolutely unsustainable, economically. If the industry expected the current demand and pricing to remain constant, they would expand production capabilities to match. Prices would drop accordingly. They have not expanded production capabilities, so they are not expecting the demand to remain at its current level.
This is all demand fueled purely by speculation, and manufacturers know better than get caught up in it.
JRH6856
Member
Has it really? See post #81.
JRH6586 said:
How much is WWB .45ACP today? Not $60 a box. Midway currently lists it for $21.99 (out of stock). That does not reflect a price increase, it is a 64.5% decrease over the past 33 years.
silicosys4
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Yea, but one example does not make the rule. $21.40 was no more normal for the times in 1980 than $60 is today. Perhaps there is a reason that old empty box and price tag were kept, because they made an impression on someone in 1980 when it was purchased.
Here's a quote;
"About 1980, I was working in a sporting goods store, "running" the gun department (cleaning, paperwork, telling Purchasing what to order, keeping shelves stocked). I remember the prices fairly well:
Remington Mohawk 22LR ammo- $.50/box, $4.75 per brick (500 rounds)
Winchester 22 WMR 40 gr FP- $3.99/50
Remington 38 Special LSWC- $5.99/50
Remington 357 Mag 158 gr JFP- $12.50/50
Remington 45ACP 230 gr FMJ- $8.99/50
Remington 30-30 170 gr CoreLokt- $4.99/box
Remington 30-06 150 gr CoreLokt- $5.99/box
Winchester 12 ga 2-3/4" Magnum #2 shot- $5.25/box
Winchester 12 ga 2-3/4" Game Loads- $2.49/box"
http://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-292538.html
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JohnBT
Member
"I have an old (empty) ammo box. WWB .45ACP FMJ purchased off the shelf at a gun store in Dallas in 1980. The price tag on the box is $21.40."
I'm with you on this and not at all surprised. I remember those days and we've been through a couple of decades recently of abnormally low ammo prices. Expecting endless cheap ammo is sort of like looking back at the Roaring Twenties and thinking that kind of boom was normal and is coming back. Maybe it is, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I bought a house in 1980 for $41k. I had an M.S. and was 6 years into a career and I was making $16k a year and doing pretty well. But ammo was still expensive, just like it had been in the '50s, '60's and '70s.
Maybe the recent good times will return, but don't shoot all your ammo just in case they don't.
John
I'm with you on this and not at all surprised. I remember those days and we've been through a couple of decades recently of abnormally low ammo prices. Expecting endless cheap ammo is sort of like looking back at the Roaring Twenties and thinking that kind of boom was normal and is coming back. Maybe it is, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I bought a house in 1980 for $41k. I had an M.S. and was 6 years into a career and I was making $16k a year and doing pretty well.
But ammo was still expensive, just like it had been in the '50s, '60's and '70s.Maybe the recent good times will return, but don't shoot all your ammo just in case they don't.
John
JohnBT
Member
"$21.40 was no more normal for the times"
Wasn't WWB in 100-round boxes by 1980? I don't know, I don't recall ever seeing or buying WWB back then.
Wasn't WWB in 100-round boxes by 1980? I don't know, I don't recall ever seeing or buying WWB back then.
huntsman
Member
Are you sure it wasn't Super X that was sold in a white box for right around $20.00 and it's not the same animal as the WWB being sold now.
JRH6856
Member
OK, yeah it's SuperX. I was looking at the endflap and the price tag covers the SuperX logo.
Found another empty box probably bought around the same time period. Yellow Box, W45A1P. (SuperX is X45A1P). Price tag is $9.37. ($26.40 in 2013 dollars).
JohnBT
Member
That explains why I don't remember WWB.
But Super-X was the common, garden variety ammo of my childhood thru college years. I still believe the price comparison is valid.
But Super-X was the common, garden variety ammo of my childhood thru college years. I still believe the price comparison is valid.
JRH6856
Member
I'm not really sure how old that yellow box is. I got my first 1911 in 1979 but I may have bought that yellow box earlier to shoot in my grandfather's 1911.
Do any of you guys like chicken wings???
In 2005 they cost me $30 for a 40 lb case.
Today that same case hovers around $90, and no one is even trying to ban them.
If no one has noticed, prices are up on everything.
Even when bullets were cheap, they weren't that cheap. They're just more expensive today.
Do you think in a year that they will be cheaper?
Buy now, regret later if the price drops, but still have.
Or buy in a year, and wish you had bought now.
I'm kinda big on the now.
I love shooting. Shooting is fun. Shooting is a hobby. Hobbies aren't free.
I have only so many heartbeats left, and I'll be damned if I waste them on anything that isn't fun.
I'll pay for my fun if that's what it takes. I like fun, and won't deny it myself.
In 2005 they cost me $30 for a 40 lb case.
Today that same case hovers around $90, and no one is even trying to ban them.
If no one has noticed, prices are up on everything.
Even when bullets were cheap, they weren't that cheap. They're just more expensive today.
Do you think in a year that they will be cheaper?
Buy now, regret later if the price drops, but still have.
Or buy in a year, and wish you had bought now.
I'm kinda big on the now.
I love shooting. Shooting is fun. Shooting is a hobby. Hobbies aren't free.
I have only so many heartbeats left, and I'll be damned if I waste them on anything that isn't fun.
I'll pay for my fun if that's what it takes. I like fun, and won't deny it myself.
JRH6856
Member
Most price increases are due to creeping inflation and few people really notice until the stop to thing what they paid 10 years ago for the same item. Right now, inflation is 2%, so no, for most things I don't expect prices to rise more than 2% by next year. And some may even drop. So pay now, pay later, it's pretty much the same.
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