The time has come to punch someone in the nose!

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Glad to hear that your wife passed the tests. It sounds like the instructors giving the class have their heads up their behinds. Punching someone out is not the answer in this case. I know, I know, it sure would make you feel better. You sound like a reasonable man and your wife sounds level headed, despite the fact some moron insulting her and your Mitchell. These instructors make money by the amount of people attending their classes and the best way to REALLY hurt them is to make sure you and your wife tell everyone you come across to STAY AWAY FROM THEM. Hit them where it REALLY hurts......their wallets! A letter to the owner of the range will help out too. Think about it for a second........If you had a business that made money. Which would hurt you more, taking a punch in the face or losing your business. Want to hurt them, hurt their business. Take that "dagger" and stick it in deep and twist it every chance you and your wife get. :evil:
 
:(
I'm very sorry to hear of so many negative matters on what is supposed to be a serious, educational, but nonetheless special occaison for your wife , and you as well.

Perhaps a documented acct of instruction, range behavior, and the mis-use of your gun is in order. Should not be difficult to get the other ladies to support. I'm sure a " qualified" person(s) can provide documented instructions on the proper use of the Mitchell and the repairs that resulted.

I'm sure the persons whom actually run the range would be receptive and interested. I would hope so - as Advertising is expensive. Negative advertising from patrons , students and spouses...one cannot put a value on or know how many persons will hear the Negative reviews.

Bad enough some competitiors are not always "friendly" competitiors.

I am sorry...for the both of you.
 
I agree i would note it all down and see if you could get soem of the other people in the class to come forward and complaine to the people who run the place
 
For some reason, this has me falling out of my seat...I've never heard that saying before. Hopefully you won't mind if I add it to my notebook.

I can't remember where I got it from - I like it too. It's right up there with "You only know what you know". :)

4. On several occasions, he answered questions with, "When I was a cop, if you tried that I'd have shot you dead." Apparently he started every sentence with "When I was a cop..." Wonder why he left the force?

I doubt he left it - he probably was a wannabe. No one around him and a gun for 5 minutes would let him be a cop. I hope. :)
 
"the story of the guy at the range..."



The best range stories start out like this. I don't know if such a moron deserves to get bopped in the nose... but yeah... you gotta do something about him. Stupidity is infectious and someone else might catch it from that guy.
 
Confucius says....

Confucius says.....The difference between a wise man and an idiot is the frequency in which they open their mouths.

Having said that, I think it's a VERY good idea that you make a point of getting the attention of the range owner on the misinformation that these simpletons are doling out. If they aren't competent enough to give instructions on proper gun safety and care then they should not be in that position.

If I found out that my children were being taught that gasoline was not flammable, I can assure you that I would be forced to take action as this type of information can be quite dangerous. The same could be said with this "instructor"
 
I think a face to face meeting with upper management is in order. Submit, in writing, a list of all transgressions, along with names of those involved and those witnessing.

Remind them that a satisified customer will tell their closest friends. An unsatisfied customer will tell EVERYBODY.
 
KRAUTGUNNER ,

Thanks for the heads-up.;) I corrected my "slip" ... :scrutiny:


Okiecruffler ,
Glad your wife is done with the stand-up comedian, although I doubt someone like that would ever get the hint that nobody is laughing.

I'm appalled to read the comments made by the attorney. Not surprised, I suppose, all things considered with the comments made by the other simpleton ... but appalled, nonetheless.

Does that range actually KNOW what these people are saying? Does the range need the money that badly? I'd drive quite a ways to patronize another range if they're aware and unconcerned. Firearms, and less sense than God gave a goose, are a BAD combination ...

I've mentioned before that I assist with a significant majority of the CCW classes at my agency, either running the range portion, and/or filling in as the classroom instructor if the head instructor is unavailable. I've got to say, that if I ever said even a pale reflection of some of the things I've read in your postings, I'd be assigned out counting chicken droppings somewhere ... and checking for the white spots.

There's no excuse for rudeness, clearly inappropriate comments ... ("because you don't have a penis we have to make up for it somewhere." ?!?! :fire: ) , and personal bias in these sort of things. We've had women ask these very reasonable sorts of questions, and it's very easy to explain how a male attacker, possibly possessed of overwhelmingly greater strength, might easily pose a greater threat of imminent risk of serious bodily injury or death to a less strong female, than another male of more equal physical stature, under some circumstances. This naturally starts the questions about similar circumstances involving older people attacked by younger, etc., etc. In other words, it starts the class THINKING about some of the information being presented, especially regarding the basic laws governing the lawful use of deadly force, and the conditions which MUST exist before the use of deadly force might be considered reasonable and lawful. The classroom is an ideal place to ask these sorts of questions ... although we always emphasize that seeking legal advice from a practicing attorney might be a very preferable and wise thing to consider.

A problem with someone's choice of a .22 to bring to the class?

Granted, I've seen far more .22's repeatedly malfunction during these classes than I've seen complete the classes without malfunctions, but for the most part the majority of the malfunctions could reasonably be attributed to either cheap, less-than-top-quality ammunition, or "less-than-optimum" owner maintenance ... both of which are fairly easy situations to help someone learn about properly resolving without being rude and unprofessional. I've seen some outstanding marksmanship with a couple of older .22 pistols, too ...

Okay, I DID politely question someone's selection of a .22 SHORT for a defensive handgun, once ... but I was polite, and genuinely curious about his reasons. His choice, not mine ... and that's something both of us can live with, so to speak, right?

I've very politely and respectfully ... NOT snide, condescending or in a derogatory manner ... asked folks if they're aware of the potential functioning problems with using .22's for lawful defensive purposes because of the variable quality of some ammunition ... and stressed the importance of using the best quality .22 ammunition they could find, and to shoot enough of it to become confident it will offer the optimum functioning in THEIR guns.

For my part, I want folks to get the most out of our classes ... feel they're being treated in a respectful manner by folks whose wages are paid from taxes ... and have an opportunity to demonstrate their reasonable proficiency on a range where they not only feel safe, and can easily understand what I expect of them during the course of fire, but feel respected and fairly treated, as well. I also enjoy it when they stop to shake my hand on the way out and tell me they enjoyed the experience. (Okay, so I REALLY try to make groups of people with loaded guns feel at ease and non-threatened. I admit it. :uhoh: :D )

My dad was born in Oklahoma ... and he taught me to be polite around armed folks ... and not poke sticks at idiots. It doesn't make them any smarter, and might make them a damned bit more annoying ... :neener:

Feel a little sympathy for the range idiot. This is probably as good as it may ever get for him ... He hasn't by any chance reproduced, has he? :scrutiny: :what:

Just kidding ...

By the way, every so often most of the instructors, myself included, break out our personally owned .22 pistols ... mostly Rugers & a couple S&W M41's ... and practice, practice, practice.

Best regards,
fb
 
OKiecruffler,
Call your state NRA reps and explain your situation. They can find out if this guy is a certified range instructor. Nobody should be giving any instruction if they are not registered with the NRA or a proper agency in your state. If he is registered, I would speak to someone in authority and have them observe this individual while he is giving his next class. If his actions are as negative as you say, then something should be done to remove him from any future training classes.
Instructors are not there to berate trainees.They are there to train people in the proper handling and safety procedures while using firearms. This isn't boot camp. The people who take the time to be properly trained don't need to have someone berating them.
The primary subject that is taught at these classes should be safety,not the caliber of firearm, the manufacturer, or how many rounds are placed on target, it's safety. Advanced classes are usually taught after trainees have the safety aspect down pat. Is this instructor following proper procedure?. If not, he could be causing a problem for the trainees.
good luck, and be safe.


SILENT ONE
 
Find someone who is takeing the class. Give them a digital recorder. IIRC they can record 5hrs or more. Get rid of idiots like that.
 
I know of only one range in OKC - the one on I-40 at Meridian but I see you're in Del City. Where did this happen?
 
I wouldn't punch him. You forfeit a lot that way for the privilege of teaching him a valuable lesson. You're supposed to get paid to teach people lessons. ;)

You are doing the right thing, though, by not helping them stay in business with your money. They'll say stuff like that to a reporter or something sooner or later.
 
What rayjay and silentOne said.

If you want to hurt him, do it right. Go after his job/business. If he is not a certified instructor, he should not be laying a hand on a person's gun in this class. If he is not a certified instructor, take away the range's privilege of teaching this class. If he is certified, go after his certification. Make him squeal.

Trying to teach him something will not work. To teach, you have to have someone willing to learn. He is stupid. Stupid people cannot be taught anything.
 
Well, there are other ranges in Okla

My favorite is the range out at I-40 and Banner road toward El Reno, But the one that everyone has guessed, H&H, is the only one around still giving regular CCW classes. Like I said, I won't spend another dime in that place, and I have two guns to buy this week. I have been informed that this is no longer my concern, the wife is taking care of matters. Poor devils, would have much less painfull to let me punch them in the nose. We figure the instructor has to be an NRA instructor, so she's starting there, but it looks like she's taken up a whole new hobby. I think she would have let the whole thing slide if it wasn't for the anti-female attitude of all the macho guys involved. As she said on our wedding night, "Just because you have one, doesn't mean you get to be one."
 
Last time I ran into some one like that, he asked if my wifes Beretta went "whop, whop, instead of bang, bang." Sorry to say that it didn't end well, and I wasted a lot of money on anger managment classes.
 
quote:
Remember - stupid people don't know they're stupid

This came out a while back, I still love it though. Cheers,
Shawn
 

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I gave up trying to "educate" the dumb a**'s of the world. They've got you out numbered. Hope this "instructor" wins the Darwin Award. Your wife sounds like a classy lady.
 
I think it is your civic duty to see this man removed.

Think about all the well intentioned people he is harming - the potential shooters turned off by this "expert" and the women who are discouraged by his sexist remarks.

People in his position are THE face of the shooting world to newbies and in that light, he is the devil.

Write it all down in as dispassionate, clinical tone as you can manage - see if you can get some other students to sign it as well and then send it to the range owner/manager - and then go after his cert status.

Let me also tell you that when I was younger, I was financially victimized by a criminal who should have been in prison - he embezzeled from another company but they withheld charges in lieu of payment - guess what? He embezzled from me to pay them by his deadline to stay free! - my point is, just because you do not have to go back and see him, you still have a responsibility to do something about him before he hurts more people.
 
He immediately hits the slide release and drops the slide. Then he dry-fires my pistol that I spent 6 long careful hours getting the ding out of from the last numbskull who thought dry-firing was a good idea. Then he starts pulling on the rear sight bracket while telling the wife that it's jammed closed.

I'm not terribly knowledgeable about these things, but would one dry firing damage the pistol again?

If so, I frankly think you SHOULD go in and talk to management about this, show them the pistol, and demand compensation. Two reasons, one, money talks of course, and hitting the owners in the pocketbook (both by refusing to go there or shop there, and by demanding payment for any damage to the gun) will have a big impact on this guy's career.

Second, it sounded from one of your followup posts like he is making all these students dry fire. If so, he is likely screwing up their guns too, and many may not know any better. Not fair to them to leave this bozo on charge. Not your problem, I suppose, but consider it your charity for the week.

patent
 
"I'm not terribly knowledgeable about these things, but would one dry firing damage the pistol again? "

On this pistol, yes. Some rimfires, Rugers I think, it is perfectly safe to dry fire. On Mitchells, and many other rimfires, if there is no round in the chamber the firing pin slams against the chamber face. When I bought this pistol I finally had to get out the diamond files and file the ding out of the chamber so the gun would feed. I don't like filing on a guns anything, let alone the chamber. You also run the risk of breaking a firing pin, and they aren't much fun to replace. Besides, it is considered, at least in my circle, VERY bad form to dry fire someone's weapon without their okay.
 
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