Things HAVE changed since Vietnam!

[telewinz]

A young friend who is a vet from Iraq got back Saturday. While we were at the range today a complete stranger walked-up to Jason and thanked him repeatedly for his service to our country. I was so proud to be an American! Be sure to thank ANY serviceman you meet, up close and personal.

Jason is an MP with 10 Iraq KIA's to his credit. He has some very strong opinions (shared by his unit BTW) about our current weapons. He feels (from experience mind you) that the M16A2 and caliber are USELESS and are a disappointment in combat. His opinion of the Beretta and the 9mm are the same. He said their is serious talk of the Marines going back to the M14. I could go into great detail about the graphics of the shots and wounds but I won't, the .223 couldn't get the job done and the M16A2 is too sensitive to dirt. I don't care for the M14 myself but if thats what our forces feel they need, then get it to them! This ends the debate about the M16 as far as I am concerned, nice cop gun but thats all. BTW I own 3 AR's and an M1A, I'm not bashing.

 

[Devonai]

Firstly, I'm glad to hear that he made it back safe and sound.

Next, if he considers his issue weapons to be "useless," how did he get ten KIAs?

 

[Ala Dan]

Another vote for the M-14

They make those 1,000 yard shot's real easy; just ask
any Viet-Namese with some age on him!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[telewinz]

10 "Confirmed" KIA's and a BSM for valor. Believe what you will. One required 3 shots to the HEAD and still lived to be taken to the hospital. This isn't theory its practical application, if you won't listen to frontline troop reports, what will you listen to? The WEAPON and CALIBER are INADEQUATE! But it killed 50 dogs just fine!

 

[coverdog]

Didn't anyone show him how to doctor up those tips on the .223 rounds?

 

[telewinz]

How do you "doctor-up" the 223 to make it effective and why in the World should we have a combat round that needs doctoring? Its magical, it will blow the paw off a dog.

 

[Moparmike]

I was looking at some .223 rounds the other day in the store, and finally realized just what everyone was bitching about. Personally, I wouldnt want to go into combat with those piddly things, unless all I was fighting was coyotes.

 

[Dan Morris]

Only complaint I had with the M14 was the roller bearing on the bolt. If you didn't keep it well lubed....lubriplate.....it would strip off! This was mostly TRW made. Got stickey in the field! This was in the 60's.
Dan

 

[Lumpy196]

There are no plans for any branch of the military to go back to the M14.

 

[telewinz]

There are no plans for any branch of the military to go back to the M14.

And their are no plans to go back to the .45 either but both are already serving in Iraq. THEY are the weapons of choice.

 

[SPFDRum]

Your young friend is correct. I carried a M14 while on the boarding party and it was 100% effective. Even during a sandstorm.

 

[Gmac]

I luv the M-14 ! Had one in RVN til they pried it out of my hands and gave me a Mattie Mattel p.o.s.! IMHO the .223 is a damned adequate Poodle cartridge!

 

[duckfoot]

Being a fella with quite a few friends in the corps coming back from the sandbox fight part II all are telling me that they were picking up AKs and using them as much as they could get away with. One 0311 that I went shooting with last month made to comment while shooting my STG-58 of "wish I had this over in the sandbox". Unlike most Marines this SSgt is not prone to boasting.

 

[Byron]

Allow me to address the two topics of this post. I was a grunt in Nam, 4TH INF 68-69. My 16 worked flawlessly and the M193 round was lethal. That being said, I feel the post addressed the returning troops from this war. Go out of your way to tell any person in uniform Thank You. I returned in Oct 1969 and found family and friends turn on me. I was 21. I made my way and will remember the hurt the protesters caused. We had a medic in our platoon that was a consienous objecter. I had no problem with that as he was out there in the middle of it with no rifle but extra medical supplies. Now, I am the old man welcoming all in uniform. I speak as a totally disabled vet from my war. May God Bless and protect our Troops and may they suffer no injustice. Byron

 

[telewinz]

Amen

 

[AZTOY]

While we were at the range today a complete stranger walked-up to Jason and thanked him repeatedly for his service to our country. I was so proud to be an American! Be sure to thank ANY serviceman you meet, up close and personal.

I just came home from Fort Gorden for x-mas and i had my Class A on .
At the airport i had strangers come up to me and thanking me for serving.

I just got of Basic and have not even finshed AIT let!

PVT Berki

 

[SodaPop]

Still haven't seen the Brits switching back to FALs.

 

[Zundfolge]

If the military wanted to replace the M4/M16 with a .308 I don't think the M14 is the best choice for modern combat troops ... its too bulky, heavy and long (would hate to have one in tight urban CQB type environment).

I could see them going with something like this though

http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=SA58OSWNFA&storeid=1&image=sa58osw.gif

 

[SodaPop]

To get the most out of .308 you need a big, long, bulky ect..................

A FAL hacked down to a 16inch carbine is a 7.62x39 in different skin.


I vote for the FAL variant because of SIMPLICITY which is something that lacks in modern firearms.

 

[G21NE]

So I guess what we're getting at is the switch to 62 grain (M855?) ammo was a bad idea?

Also adding weight to the original design with the heavier barrel and the "jam it in tighter if it don't fit" forward assist.

I guess trying to make a light, select fire 200-300m range carbine into an all purpose rifle without changing the ammo was not the best idea?

 

[Preacherman]

I'll be watching the new Remington 6.8x45mm. round with great interest. If, as claimed, these can be fired through existing M16/AR15 platforms with only a change of upper, using existing magazines, it might just be what this rifle needs to make it a truly effective combat weapon.

 

[Kestrel]

The M855 IS inadequate. I don't understand the people that defend it. The M16 is a very ergonomic platform and easy to shoot, BUT - it is not reliable in sandy conditions. Unfortunately, the answer is to have to clean it constantly. What do you do in the middle of a fire-fight and the wind is blowing sand on you and your weapons?

I'm also curious to see the 6.8x45. Should be an improvement. Yep, it can be integrated into the M16 platform, but what about the HK XM8? Is this integration into the M16 platform going to be a stop-gap, until the XM8? Is the HK weapon THAT far off? I'm sure if the 6.8x45 is adopted, the Hk will be chambered in it (or anything the US tells them to). The plant being built in Columbus, GA is going to be building the XM8, by the way. I don't know that the XM8 is the answer, either, though.

I actually like the FAL, too...

Steve

 

[Onslaught]

This is a true story I thought I'd share...

My parents' neighbor across the street went in for "Part Deux". He's out of Ft. Benning and drives an M1. His wife works at the International House of Pancakes. A couple months ago, she was working, serving some HIPPIE LIBERAL MOTHER SUNOFA (pardon me). He had a couple friends with him, and he asked her what she was wearing that yellow ribbon for. She told him that her husband was in Iraq. The guy started bad mouthing everything from the President to the Military, and then told her that her husband was a murderer and he hoped he got killed in action!

I was told that she slapped him and I have no reason to disbelieve it. According to the rest of the story, he turned red in the face, reported her to the manager, who took care of their bill but told her he didn't blame her a bit, just please don't do it again.

That's the story as best I got it from my Father, who was across the street frequently checking on her and their dog while her husband was away.

He's home now, and doing just fine. His wife no longer works at the IHOP. I've see him in his yard a few times, and thought about going over to thank him, but I honestly wondered if he'd just think that was just plain "cheesy".... Apparently not, and I'll be sure to do that next time I see him.

 

[JShirley]

There were folks outside the main gates at Lewis, most weekends, holding signs thanking us.

I usually teared up.

There are no plans for any branch of the military to go back to the M14.

Actually, the sooper high-speed gee-whiz IBCT's (Stryker Brigades) are considering throwing them back into the mix for their Squad Designated Marksmen.

Some Spec Ops are using the 16" DSA carbines. Preacherman, I'm pretty sure it's a 6.8x43mm.

John

 

[G1FAL]

The navy still uses the M-14. Few things are as funny as watching a security drill with four squids running around the ship, two or three with 9mm Berettas, maybe one shotgun in place of a Beretta, and an M14. I'm thinking to myself "*** they gonna do with that thing in the confines of this ship? Unless the bad guy is in the hangar bay, the chow hall, or up on the flight deck?" And I was on an LHD, which has quite a bit more room than the smaller ships, such as the LSD's or destroyers. They also use them when in a less-than-friendly port, such as Dubai. Its kind of redundant, really, that they would do so, as there were already at least two Marine machineguns set up on the ship, and at least one sniper team, along with some rifle-totin infantry. But hey, its their ship....I would go the extra mile if it was mine, too.

One of the Marine battalions I was in, they told us if the balloon went up, we could take whatever personal weapons we wanted to, just remember that we were the one that had to carry it. One actual quote: "You can carry a samurai sword if you want, but YOU'RE the one thats carryin it." (I thought long and hard about getting one of those small chainsaws. Good for opening doors, or someone's chest in HTH) Had I known about the FAL then, I would have made sure I had one available "just in case".