Thinking about a .25?

[grampajack]

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/pro...per-solid-aluminum-case-50-pk-859665005833.do

Oath ammo makes a solid copper 25 ACP. Couldn't find any gel tests of it though. Wouldn't trust it personally, but if I had to carry a .25 ACP for some reason this is probably what I would use. I've yet to see a copper bullet that didn't outperform a lead one in penetrating hard stuff, like a human skull for example.

Price isn't bad either! It's only a few dollars more per box than FMJ.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Compared to the general run of .22 LR rimfire ammo, the general run of .25 ACP ammo is more dependable to go bang and cycle after sitting in a drawer for a year.

 

[Kendal Black]

I'd love to have a little Beretta 950. Nutnfancy surely loves his and comments on how fast and accurate it is when dumping a mag into a target, almost like a little machine gun.

(Emphasis added.)

Hefty .22LR target pistols, such as the bull barreled Ruger Marks, exhibit this to a greater degree--and I wouldn't pick one of those for defense use, either.

There may be circumstances that make a pocket .25 the best choice, such as severe problems with the hands and wrists that make it impossible to shoot a bigger caliber. Absent such concerns I suggest a gun firing a better bullet.

 

[Sarge7402]

I've never even heard of pewter bullets before. Isn't pewter pretty soft?

Heck, I didn't even know pewter had lead in it, but I guess that makes sense. But people used to eat on it for crying out loud! I knew this old couple when I was little that had a huge collection of pewter tableware.

The test I remember was against bullet resistant vests and the pewter bullets just sailed right thru

 

[grampajack]

The test I remember was against bullet resistant vests and the pewter bullets just sailed right thru

Apparently pewter is 98% tin, with some copper and antimony mixed in for hardness. I have a very difficult time believing that pewter is harder than solid copper. What caliber was the bullet? If it was a rifle caliber then that's to be expected; lead would have sailed right through as well. If it was a pistol rounds, then I would imagine it was only a level II vest. Even a solid copper bullet needs to be going about 1700 fps and have a good sectional density to penetrate a level III vest, assuming it wasn't something ridiculous like a 50 AE.

 

[Kendal Black]

Lots and lots of .25 ACP: The Lercker full auto. 20 round magazine. A dead end development. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lercker_pistol
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/lercker-machine-pistol/

Photo: Forgotten Weapons​

 

[.308 Norma]

Compared to the general run of .22 LR rimfire ammo, the general run of .25 ACP ammo is more dependable to go bang and cycle after sitting in a drawer for a year.

Do you mean the current "general run" of .22 LR rimfire ammo? Has the dependability of .22 LR rimfire ammo gone downhill lately? I'm asking because I don't think I have any .22 LR ammo that's less than a year old, and I probably have some that's over 40 years old. Now while all of the old .22 LR rimfire ammo I have around may, or may not be as "dependable" as the "general run of .25 ACP ammo," I'll bet it will all "go bang and cycle."
How much more "dependable" can .25 ACP ammo be than that?

 

[grampajack]

Do you mean the current "general run" of .22 LR rimfire ammo? Has the dependability of .22 LR rimfire ammo gone downhill lately? I'm asking because I don't think I have any .22 LR ammo that's less than a year old, and I probably have some that's over 40 years old. Now while all of the old .22 LR rimfire ammo I have around may, or may not be as "dependable" as the "general run of .25 ACP ammo," I'll bet it will all "go bang and cycle."
How much more "dependable" can .25 ACP ammo be than that?

I shot thousands of rounds of .22lr when I was a kid, and duds were pretty common. It's absolutely true that rimfire is less reliable. I couldn't put a number on it, but my perception is that it's much less reliable, maybe several duds per 500 round box. Also very unreliable cycling from magazines in semi autos.

 

[.308 Norma]

I shot thousands of rounds of .22lr when I was a kid, and duds were pretty common. It's absolutely true that rimfire is less reliable. I couldn't put a number on it, but my perception is that it's much less reliable, maybe several duds per 500 round box. Also very unreliable cycling from magazines in semi autos.

Yeah, well I too shot thousands of round of .22LR, .22Long, .22Short, and .22WMR when I was a kid, grandpajack. And I'm still shooting them today. My perception is that rimfire ammunition is extremely dependable, and "several duds per 500 round box is absurd. I will admit to unreliable cycling of .22LR ammo in some semi-auto pistols, but not in my Ruger, nor any .22LR semi-auto rifle I own now, or have ever owned.

 

[grampajack]

Yeah, well I too shot thousands of round of .22LR, .22Long, .22Short, and .22WMR when I was a kid, grandpajack. And I'm still shooting them today. My perception is that rimfire ammunition is extremely dependable, and "several duds per 500 round box is absurd. I will admit to unreliable cycling of .22LR ammo in some semi-auto pistols, but not in my Ruger, nor any .22LR semi-auto rifle I own now, or have ever owned.

I don't know, all I can say is we've had very different experiences. I couldn't even begin to tell you what brands I used over the years, whatever was cheapest at walmart at any given time. I don't shoot much .22 anymore, though. But the consensus for many many years has always been that rimfire is substantially less reliable than centerfire, and my perception was always that that was true. You would think someone somewhere along the way would have done a study on it.

 

[.308 Norma]

You would think someone somewhere along the way would have done a study on it.

You'd think so, wouldn't you?
My wife bought a little Walther .22LR pistol about 10 years back, and that thing was the worst auto-jammer I've ever seen with cheap ammo that had plain lead bullets. And it wasn't all that much better with more expensive, platted bullets - at least one jam of some type or another with every magazine full. The gun always went "bang" the first time she pulled the trigger, but she only had about a 50% chance of getting a second shot.
On the other hand, back when Idaho (where we live) was wall-to-wall jackrabbits for a few years, on Saturday mornings, we'd go out on the desert with our 10/22s and burn through a 500 round brick of cheap .22 ammo in a day, without a single jam. The truth is though - a five hundred round brick usually only accounted for less than 50 rabbits. That's because it was more fun to shoot them on the run by "walking" our lines of fire up on them while shooting as fast as we could pull the triggers.

 

[Tallball]

"Compared to the general run of .22 LR rimfire ammo, the general run of .25 ACP ammo is more dependable to go bang..."

That is the only reason I would use a 25 for SD over a 22. If someone couldn't handle recoil, why not 32 S&W long? I would use that instead every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

On the other hand... I sure wish I had a 25 caliber pistol or revolver with a long barrel and good sights. If 22lr ever disappears again, 25 can be reloaded. But I don't know of a 25 that would be a suitable substitute for a good 22lr plinker.

 

[Tacoma]

....and yet no one volunteers to stand in front of one with a catcher mitt.

FWIW, the LGS in my town had an accidental discharge by a customer some years back. The gun was a .25 and the single FMJ round caught another customer in the chest. That unfortunate guy went down on the spot and never got up.

Not saying I'd take a.25 into combat . Just pointing out that there is always data to sway anyone's opinions in either direction.

 

[CDW4ME]

Recent shooting in my part of the woods. Guy attacked a property owner and, after firing a couple of warning shots into the ground, the property owner shot him in the forehead with a .25 auto. Bullet did not penetrate the skull; went under the skin and around. Did stop the fight, however. The shootee died the next day from bleeding on the brain (subdural hematoma). I'm sure that there are exceptions, but it seems that a .25 will kill you about as fast as a snake bite.

Death the next day, or significantly later like snakebite, is not my criteria for self defense.
Whether the attacker dies is not part of the equation either.
I want a deadly attack on me stopped ASAP, that is my criteria, most likely achieved with a (or more) really good 9mm +P HP or better.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Millions of 1000 pound plus steers have been killed with a single 22 long rifle shot to the head. It doesn't change the fact that it's a squirrel gun.

 

[Swing]

How about two .25 ACP rounds at once? Kidding. But there is this weird thing.



I kind of like it from a strictly bizarre-o standpoint and nothing else.

 

[kozak6]

Most .25's are antiques or junkers (or both), and are often of dubious safety.

Unless you have a rather extraordinary carry need that can only be met by a Colt Vest Pocket or similar, you'd probably be better off with something lighter and more modern like a P32 or LCP.

 

[bannockburn]

Swing

Thanks for the S333 video. Some sort of weird pepperbox technology going on there. If this actually gets to market (there's also the matter of one pull of the trigger firing two rounds=mini machinegun to the BATFE?), I would think a .32 or .380 version would make for a more effective caliber choice.

 

[Jim NE]

To me, the .25 is just a "fun to own" gun. I have two - both FIE Titans. One I paid $139 for, and it works pretty good. No jams or issues at all. The other I paid $43 for, and it's a much stiffer operating example that came without a mag. The mag from the first gun would not function on the second gun, so I found another mag, and the second gun seems to work with that mag. No real issues any longer. These were made by Tangfolio, so they seem to be much better designed than the old Ravens I owned as a "kid."

I personally think it's neat to have a gun not much bigger than a cigarette lighter bouncing around in your pocket. No doubt my LCP is a more viable pocket carry, but even it's not as small as my Titans. They aren't for defense, but could be used as such if a baseball bat isn't available.

 

[MedWheeler]

S&W629 writes:

I would be better armed with a good rock..than with anything in 25 caliber.

Not me, for a few reasons. For one, I actually practice shooting, even with .22/.25-caliber handguns, far more often than I practice defensive rock-handling. That may differ, I admit, than your practice habits. I feel more confident in my own ability to drive off or incapacitate an attacker with a .25ACP pistol than with a rock. Another reason is that far more attackers (virtually all of them, actually) will cease being a threat far more readily if confronted and shot or shot at at by someone with a .22/.25 caliber handgun than if their intended victim wields a rock.

I'd much rather carry even my Jennings J-22 when out and about than a rock, or even six rocks, stuffed in my pockets. But that's just me, I guess.

(As I mentioned before, though, I do not carry any of my .22/.25 caliber guns as a primary defensive tool, as my P32 fits virtually all of my deep-conceal needs, and I usually go to the PF9, anyway.)

 

[Deaf Smith]

As Jeff Cooper said, "carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you."

A Kel-Tec p32 in .32 ACP is smaller than most .25s. I have one and it works very well.

Deaf

 

[thedeal]

Nobody who is serious about self defense carries a .25 as a primary weapon. It's likely very few people even bother carrying a .25 as a secondary or even third (4th, 5th, 6th...) option. There are just too many good options in better calibers (.380, .38, 9mm) in lightweight or compact firearms to consider a .25. Of course a .25 can kill if the shot placement is specific and the conditions "just right" or even accidental.

But...well...just no.

 

[Odd Job]

Two things:

1) The face and forehead are complex bony structures and can deflect a handgun bullet of service calibre, not just a .25. I've seen it happen a number of times.
2) I would pick a .25 over a .22 pistol for reliability reasons.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

I wouldn't want to depend on a .25 acp as my only means of protection. If it came down to a rock or a .25 pistol though I would take the .25. I would also prefer the .25 to the same or similar sized .22.

I like the small pistols for whatever reasons...

Beretta Bobcat .25

Beretta Bobcat .22 lr

Colt .25 acp

NAA

I do have some .32 and .380 autos as well but not for this thread

 

[LoneGoose]

bannockburn, that's a sweet little Browning.