thinking of building an AR

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interesting.. hows the nickle boron compare to nitrided for low friction and ease of cleaning?
 
Easier on low round count, it just wipes off with an oily rag.

When it's baked on after 1000 or 1200 rounds then it's still kind of a pain.

The NiB bolt carrier group requires less lube. I still don't think it's a bad idea to run it wet though.
 
i am going with 16" afterall.. it eliminates an added variable when i go to compare it to my 16" AK.. also lets me use a real stock and no SBR

my question now, what do you guys thing about AR stoner and voodoo innovations 16" M4 contour melonite 5.56mm barrels?
 
The Stoner chrome lined barrels for a few dollars more seem to work well and I have one that prints just over 1 moa. I have friends that bought the melonite barrels and have case sticking problems and chambering issues generally. The Stoner M-4 barrels are probably the most barrel you can get for around $100 IMHO.
 
I've done a few builds and am happy to share what are the best components I've run into along the way. Specifically:

Trigger: The Geissele SSA-E trigger is quite good. Like most top-shelf things, it's a bit spendy. http://geissele.com/super-semi-automatic-enhanced-ssa-e-trigger.html

Forearm: The best fore end/hand guard I've had a chance to use and purchase is the BCM KMR handguard. It is almost impossibly light, narrower than most and feels really good in the hand. Hard to find them in stock though. I don't care that it's a keymod design. Most keymod components are absurdly priced, and I don't like sticking a lot of things on my AR. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-KMR-KeyMod-Handguard-s/184.htm

Stock: I'm not a fan of adjustable stocks. They all feel like there's some wobble in them, and I just don't see the need. ACE makes some that are extremely solid (it is an excellent blunt object to use as you see fit) and reasonably lightweight. There's a short and long model. http://riflestocks.com/store/product94.html

Buffer spring: The JP buffer spring is a nice add-on. Very solid and doesn't sound like you have a jack-in-the-box in your rifle every time you fire. It's also spendy. http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPSCS-15

GL
 
what are your opinions on gas blocks?.. pin on, clamp on? most i find tend to be clamp on and im not sure if i want a flip-up sight or a solid front sight/gas block
 
That largely depends on your fore-end plans. The new slimmer style rail tubes seem to preclude the clamp-on style unless you stop the rail short of the gas block. (What's the point, then?)

The alternative there is to use the kind with set screws, but most folks say to dimple the barrel where the screws will hit to lock it down tight.

My preferred choice is the original taper pins, but you either have to get a barrel with a standard FSB and cut it down (like I did) or order one set up like that, which you can from Daniel Defense and probably others.
 
i definitely want a simple pin on gas block and front sight, reliability is my goal and pins are much mroe secure.. maybe put on a tube style railed forearm.. you know, something like this rifle.. may even just settle for a "drop in" style forearm.. you know, keep it simple and more along the lines of an M4 carbine

unfortunately it seems like pin on blocks are much harder to find

AR-15-1.jpg
 
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question though.. will the bayonets even fit on the 16" barrel with the M4 gas system or would it require a mid length gas system for that to work?.. and it would be cool if i could find a flip up version of that same sight.. but.. im guessing then the front site would be more prone to losing zero
 
There are a lot of good BUIS (I like the Magpul version) and they're every bit as secure as a fixed gas block version.

The bayonet? (Really? OK :D) I believe you'd either need a real 14.5" M4 barrel, or a full-length rifle, or a 16" middy...maybe. Not sure about the last one.

Kind of down there on the list of worries pretty far. About even with "how does my rifle smell."
 
well, i have no use for a bayonet outside of pissing off liberals just because i can, but i guess the lug alone is enough?.. i really like the way the pinned on front sights look, even the flip up ones too so its more of aesthetics thing, ive never really liked the look of having a low profile gas block tucked underneath an extended forearm

i guess ill either go with the fixed A2 sight or i'll have to get a low profile gas block to go under a free float forearm, those really seem to be my two options unless i can find a pinned rail gas block
 
Get a USMC bayonet. It's a bit longer.

Really, unless there's something you just have to have that you can only add to your AR yourself, I think you're better off finding a complete upper and snapping that on a lower (possibly one that you assembled yourself).
 
goon said:
Get a USMC bayonet. It's a bit longer.

Really, unless there's something you just have to have that you can only add to your AR yourself, I think you're better off finding a complete upper and snapping that on a lower (possibly one that you assembled yourself).
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nah, too boring to just buy something, i could just buy a lot of things but then it wouldnt give me much to do

i looked at that usmc bayonet.. looks a lot like my kabar

anyway.. those of you who use red dots and have a fixed A2 front sight.. does this interfere with your red dot at all? does it get in the way or does it co-witness? and which do you prefer?
 
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eeh.. i think im going to KISS it and just go with the pin on A2 gas block and front sight, and the non free floated forearms.. i can worry about adding accessories or customizing or updating later on,

first priority is to run the AR through a series of tests to compete against my AK.. these tests will include reliability, accuracy, ease of repair, durability, weight, and handling through a variety of realistic tests including drop tests, dirt tests (not dumping it inside which is unrealistic, but dropping it in dirt), maybe some distance shooting, timed target shooting to test handling, i can easily judge east of repair on the fact BOTH rifles would have been built and assembled from parts on 80% receivers

i'll probably judge each rifle in each test on how many starts they get out of 5 to determine which is the overall best rifle for me.. if it does in fact turn out the AR-15 wins, then and only then am i going to worry about customization and upgrades

so, 16" to match my AK, fixed pinned gas block and front sight, fixed rear sight on the rail, regular "drop in" handguards, probably the M4 style collapsible stock, A2 flash hider, and im going to spend a little time with it to get used to it first before beginning such tests to get a good feel of its limitations and maintenance cycles
 
justin22885 said:
anyway.. those of you who use red dots and have a fixed A2 front sight.. does this interfere with your red dot at all? does it get in the way or does it co-witness? and which do you prefer?
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No, it doesn't get in the way.

With an A2 front/fixed the way I've set it up on both my 16 in AR's is a 100% co-witness and then I just fold down the rear sight the vast majority of the time. Not much sense in having a dot if you're going to run irons on top of it, but it doesn't change anything really. You can still see fine, there's just more clutter.

With a 100% co-witness on an A2 front it looks just like dotting a lowercase 'i'.
 
i should be able to drill and pin on a typical clamp on gas block for added security, right?.. so if i wanted to put an A2 sight on now and decided to put on a different one later i should be able to drill that clamp on to match the pins of the A2 to make sure it never moves?
 
If I wanted something that could be purchased instead of built now would be the time to buy it due to a current softening of the market for AR-15's.

If you want something unique or with top quality parts build it.
There is one flaw with starting out with an 80% lower.
The flaw is that you will never know if any failures you encounter are the fault of your chosen system or due to a problem with the lower receiver.
Purchase a lower receiver as your control and shoot it for 1,000 rounds or more.
If there are no failures then everything can be transferred over to an 80% lower.

As far as the gas system operating correctly everything starts with the gas port diameter. A properly sized gas port will not beat up the shooter or the gun and will cycle reliably.
Search and you will find proper gas port sizes for different barrel and gas system lengths.

I have 2 14.5" carbines, one with a properly sized gas port and a mid length gas system and another with an oversized gas port and a carbine length gas system.
The difference in recoil impulse is surprising. An adjustable gas block can be used to slow down the gas system.
Another option is the Vltor A5 system which I have never tried but many people swear by.
I use a Magpul UBR buttstock which is heavier but it balances the rifle perfectly with my mid weight barrels. For me balance is more important than overall weight.

Best of luck whichever way you decide to go.
 
nah, too boring to just buy something, i could just buy a lot of things but then it wouldnt give me much to do
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Buying a complete upper and assembling one from parts is a difference of 20 minutes. My suggestion is to base the decision on economics & whether or not a complete upper offers what you're looking for.

i should be able to drill and pin on a typical clamp on gas block for added security, right?.. so if i wanted to put an A2 sight on now and decided to put on a different one later i should be able to drill that clamp on to match the pins of the A2 to make sure it never moves?
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Good luck. Drilling a new barrel to pin an existing FSB is one thing. Trying to get the holes right in a new FSB/GB to match the existing barrel would be quite a challenge even for some of us with a lot of machining experience and equipment. You'd have to hold thenths through a block of steel with a rather small drill.

I've never had a problem with set screw style blocks, even without dimpling or drilling the barrel. I wouldn't want to set screws holding a standard FSB, but a low profile gas block is not going to be subjected to the hits a regular FSB is, especially with them typically being under the hand guards. Loctite 271 is good to 500*F, and a generous application in the screw holes will push some of it between the barrel and block, creating a very solid fit. Also easily removed later with a blow torch.
 
browning..that picture doesnt look all that bad.. looks like even a folded down front BUIS takes a big chunk of the picture out.. youre really not losing much if any picture on the fixed A2 front sight vs a flipped down front BUIS.. so im just going to keep it simple and stick with the A2 fixed front sight

that said, i dont think im all that concerned with free floating.. if i was building a 500+ yard rifle.. or say a 20 inch 6.5 grendel upper, maybe, but essentially an M4 carbine? is it really all that important to go free floated? probably not
 
I'd say not. For my uses, the biggest benefit is having the extra tube length for gripping, and not having a hot gas block right there where I want to wrap my fingers. (OUCH.)

Having the tube separate from the barrel and gas system, and long enough, means I can use any of the more efficient grip/stance techniques rather than being limited to keeping my hands back from, and off of, the FSB of a short carbine.

The M4 carbine was a positive milestone in the AR/M16 development story, but it isn't really the mature form of the system. Just one step along the way.
 
On my 16 in AR's one is free floated and one isn't and I really haven't noticed any difference in accuracy. I mean none.

The farthest I've shot those two is about 300 yards, but 9 times out of 10 it's more like somewhere in between 60 yards and 150. Depends what you're doing with it.

For the flipped up front, dot and folded down rear it looks like this.

AD556283-36E8-4FF7-9526-330259B6F3E1_zps9humunlw.gif

I got so used to having an A2 front that when using a dot sight that even on my AR pistol that does has a flip down front I'm mostly running the front flipped up anyway.
 
Sam1911 said:
I'd say not. For my uses, the biggest benefit is having the extra tube length for gripping, and not having a hot gas block right there where I want to wrap my fingers. (OUCH.)

Having the tube separate from the barrel and gas system, and long enough, means I can use any of the more efficient grip/stance techniques rather than being limited to keeping my hands back from, and off of, the FSB of a short carbine.

The M4 carbine was a positive milestone in the AR/M16 development story, but it isn't really the mature form of the system. Just one step along the way.
Click to expand...
what in your opinion is the mature form of the system?
 
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Well... I'd always cop out and say the system will never be fully evolved. :) I mean, there's always some next step out there somewhere, right?

But I think it would be generally acceptable to say that the system is improved by extending the forward gripping surface and shielding the operator's hand from hot parts (float tubes can do that well). And some pretty simple improvements to the collapsible stock (like the MagPul versions, or other) are clearly better than the M4 standard unit. And it is simplicity itself to use a fire control system that is more conducive to accuracy than the varied (but usually a little lousy) stock trigger. There are far better muzzle devices than the A2 flash hider now, giving marked improvements to rate of aimed fire and control. Few folks really, REALLY want a 14.5" barrel, and the high-speed type have mostly moved back out past 16" to settle around 18" for an optimal barrel length.

And those are just the "bolt-on" improvements. Then you could get into modifications to the cartridge fired, adjustments to the controls layout (e.g. something that could eliminate the desire/need for the B.A.D. lever) and so forth.

So the M4 was a worthwhile step along the path, but was sort of the state of the art about 20 years ago, but a LOT has happened in that 20 years.
 
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