This is how guns get banned out here

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well, at least you live with two 20yo girls ;)

Your analysis was very true btw !

One thing is for sûre.. I wouldnt stay longer than needed in California ;)
 
Much of the attempt to regulate guns more tightly comes from the left's core belief that people need to be protected from themselves, and that it can be done through more laws (e.g. seat belt, anti-smoking, etc.). Any time a high-profile event happens, like these shootings in Switzerland or like Enron in the US, the legislators feel like they need to do something to show their concern. Never mind that existing laws were broken. We need more laws to prevent people from breaking existing laws. That's how we end up with tighter gun regulations and laws like Sarbanes-Oxley that increase the cost of doing business. The losers in all this are the majority of the people who are law-abiding. Guess what? People who want to break the law will do it, regardless. I see it as the OP sees it: it's the price of living in a free country.
 
Most Swiss people, don't see guns as a right, since it was never written clearly in our constitution..
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This is your first step, then. Get organised, and get the message out. Use your proud militia tradition as a foundation. Put ads in the papers, on the radio, on television, even on the sides of buses. Encourage people to buy firearms, to go shooting, to honour their traditions. And then go one step further by advertising the proposed addition to your constitution.

Call and write to your representatives. Call them EVERY DAY if you have to. It is not the silent majority who makes policy, it is the obnoxious and vocal minority. Become that vocal minority. Good luck and I hope that your fight for your rights is won. :)
 
It'll be a real shame to see Switzerland lose its proud tradition, got to think the French are somehow involved, well also the English, Germans, and so, and that's close enough to being French at times for the most part nowadays unfortunately. Then we get these fools here in the U.S. who want us to be like Europeans. I'll pass thank you.
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Trust me when I say that a lot of French (and German, and English..., for that matter) people are getting sick and tired of their own governments and the European rule-making machine. Now, if you ask me, who votes for those governments ? Then "new" French/English/... citizens of these countries, mostly refugees from such havens of freedom and democracy such as (Nothern) Africa, Eastern Europe and so on. Case in point: the two main opposing parties of gun ownership in my own country have, proportionally, the most voters of foreign origin (and not because of their anti-gun POV, but because of their "redistribute the wealth"-policies).
 
The only downside to this, is that the NRA get his strenght from the 2nd Am. of your constitution, which is CLEAR-
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apparently it is not... we have so many politicians who don't see the last part of the 2nd amendment because they refuse to its not funny. when a senator from Oklahoma asked soytomayor (spelling?) how are right to privacy which is not necessarily wrote into the constitution is looked as an inalienable right, yet the 2nd amendment is clearly spelled out, is looked as a right not necessarily for the people? she jumped through loops not going to answer that question. Stop those anti's now, and STOMP them out of commision or your country will begin a slow trek to slavery. the first steps in making the populace the peasants is by only allowing the government to be armed. In the U.K people no longer can tell a cop no to a search without a warrant, how long till they can no longer say "NO" to the government without getting thrown in jail?
 
Speaking of ridiculous things in the UK, their nanny state is going well beyond the imagination of comics like V for Vendetta. The government is now trying to mandate that no beer be served in a glass glass at a bar because it can be used to strike someone, and the government is setting out to design a plastic cup that all bars must serve in...........
 
Lykoris.

You would NOT want to see the reaction in such a fiat was issued..............oh yeah, some would comply, but such an order would only succeed in making an awful lot of criminals. The reaction in some areas of this Nation would be truly violent, and speaking as a retired LEO I assure you that I would NOT want to be on any seizure team!

I cannot imagine the West Virginia hillbilly, or the Texas brush rat easily surrendering his arms...........After all, just note the number of U.S. States that're throwing down the gauntlet with 10th Amendment overtones incorporated in legislation.............those amount to direct challenges to our Federal Government.......which has forgotten that it possesses ONLY the powers specifically enumerated to it!

Our ancestors scraped flints at red coats..........I rather imagine that crosshairs on blue helmets'd (or those that do their bidding) be little different.
 
He's a liar. It was premeditated. He didn't just end up "sighting a girl 85 yards away". He had to know what he was doing when he was doing it. He stole items. Premeditated. If this vote happens, this situation could still happen again. It's about a disturbed individual who is a murdering thief. Laws don't stop this type of person. Laws will only restrict the law abiding folk, not the already crooked people.
 
Sounds like Switzerland should tighten up it's immigration policies. Just because someone receives asylum doesn't really make him "Swiss".
Tell me, Shung, which ethnic group commits most of the violent crime in Switzerland?
 
Clearly, stats shows that criminal are found the most amongst people from Balkans (ex yougoslavia, albania, kosovo) and north africans (algeria, Marocco) -

Unlike in France, such ethnic statistic are allowed in Switzerland, and come straight from the Swiss Federal Office for the Statistic..

Last time I checked, more than 70% of the people in our jail were foreigners (that we rarely expel) , and this do NOT take into account foreigners with swiss passport.

Btw, the guy did not receive asylum. He was adopted by Swiss parents, so he became Swiss. and I feel it's fair.

btw, I do not want to bring racism in here. I know and i have friends from both Balkans or north africa, and they are great people, and law abiding citizens..

it's just that statistically, their people are more inclined to criminal activities.
Just like young people are statistically more involved in car accident.. this do not mean that all young people are bad drivers..
 
Shung, I'm curious....the men in your country that have a military rifle issued to them to keep in their homes, how are they required to store or secure it? Any specific requirements? I mean, they can't just hang them on a wall, can they? And are they issued ammunition too?
 
No specific requirement, but strongly advised to store the gun and the bolt assembly separately, possibly locking the bolt assembly. And anyway, you are responsible of what happends with your issued rifle.

As for ammo, we were used to be issued a 50 rounds sealed ammo box since WWII, but after the precise shooting I was talking in the 1st post, left parties made such a pressure on the army and parlament, that the issued sealed ammo box was taken away from soldiers these last 2 years.. I got mine in 2003, and had to turn it in in 2008.

The goal of this ammo box, was to allow each soldier, in case of war/mobilisation, to ensure his own safety while joining his unit.
 
Living with girls isn't as great as it sounds. I could go on about this, but I won't.

And I'm working on getting out of CA, but I'm already 3 years into my degree at Davis and would be incapable of paying for private school...not to mention I don't mind living here, aside from our ridiculous laws.

I'm just curious, can you purchase ammunition freely in Switzerland? Or is it heavily restricted?
 
Shung
not all correct actually.. a couple of years ago, a law permitting the possession and use of a firerarm to defend yourself in your home was accepted in Italy.. and I think that Slovakia or another eastern country allows people to carry guns with a permit.
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I had heard about the 'castle doctrine' law in Italy but as I don't speak Italian never read it from a government site.

I believe they are the exception more than the rule. I don't know about Slovakia but the Czech republic allows CCW for civilians.

You will see that Schengen is a taste of what is to come vis-à-vis the E.U. if the Swiss decide to sign up for any further agreements. Case in point the EU constitution, dutch voted no, the french voted no so they rename it the lisbon treaty and change the laws in holland/france so the people cannot vote. Ireland then votes no(only country that under national law required a referendum by the people of Ireland....which blocks the lisbon treaty being adopted. They have forced a 2nd referendum in Ireland due for Oct 2nd for the population to vote again...and no doubt again and again and again until they get the YES vote they desire (do you know how many times the Swiss voted on Schengen until they said yes? ). The British labour government promised the people a vote but changed their minds as the British people will also be opposed to it. The people of Europe(Holland, France, Ireland, Britain amongst other various countries) are not being listened to at the present time, I do not see that changing in the foreseeable future. There is NOTHING democratic about the E.U. - it is becoming the equivalent of the politburo of the former U.S.S.R.

Firearms ownership is always demonised through association in the media - Swiss firearms ownership primarily associated with the military and as the cold war ended decades ago and everybody loves everybody else in Europe we don't need a Swiss militia anymore etc. The anti-gun movement will associate firearms with whatever gives them the most leverage in the mind of the public for their agenda.

Generations go by and before you know all you have left is an o/u shotgun or a bolt rifle that accepts one cartridge at a time(said cartridge being non-military so ammunition is more expensive so even less people participate in shooting).

I also remember reading that the issue of ammuntion for the swiss service rifle was never intended as 'permanent' and only given to civilians during times of unease e.g. outbreak of WWI and WWII, then the cold war.

Given the past 100 years of historical conflict in Europe and the fact that human nature has not evolved since the stone age I would still be apprehensive about the future. I think its highly unlikely for the foreseeable future but it is a possibliity.
 
Castle doctrine (in your home) in italy is a reality. This was accepted after too many home invasions and agressions- And you are right about Cz Rep. It was a lapsus from me.

I know about all the votes and REVOTES about the treaties (maastricht, lisbon etc), and I still hope the Irish people will have the "guts" to say no again.. On the other hand, Ireland got many advanatages from the EU for 10 years now, and their vote wasn't a nice reward for the EU.. ;) - Some people like the french or the British didnt even get to vote on the matter..

We are now the only 2 or 3 generations in europe that didnt know/live a major war time (and that is not even counting the civil wars in the Balkans) in Europe, for about 2000 years..

What leftiests/idealists/utopists do not understand is that we are at peace, sure, but it's only a matter of WHEN and not IF, the next war or crisis time will come back in europe, as History tends to just repeats itself, ever and ever.. And as someones liked to say apart Nazism, Communism, Fascism, guns and the use of force, never solved anything...

I also remember reading that the issue of ammuntion for the swiss service rifle was never intended as 'permanent' and only given to civilians during times of unease e.g. outbreak of WWI and WWII, then the cold war.
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You of course know what they aim at by 1st removing the ammo... They (the anti) promised the people (Army, Swiss shooting fed, etc) that accepted the ammo taken away deal that they wouldnt ask anything more about the guns.. Well, now they are arguing widely that without the ammo box, the rifle has become USELESS (nah kidding) and therefore should be stored in arsenals as well..

I'm just curious, can you purchase ammunition freely in Switzerland? Or is it heavily restricted?
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If you own a gun legally, you can buy all the ammo you want.. hundred thousands rounds if you can afford it.
 
It'll be a real shame to see Switzerland lose its proud tradition, got to think the French are somehow involved, well also the English, Germans, and so, and that's close enough to being French at times for the most part nowadays unfortunately. Then we get these fools here in the U.S. who want us to be like Europeans.
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Boo hoo! those evil French people can't stop plotting against your freedoms!
Seriously, France is well placed regarding gun rights when compared to its european neighbours. Educate yourself before talking nonsense, and stop listening to right-wing propaganda about how evil the French are.
 
Don't worry Shung, I know when you're being ironic.

Everybody knows no country in Europe can beat Switzerland when it comes to gun rights & culture, but too few Americans are aware of the fact that France is quite alright when compared to the UK and many other European countries. There is a huge community of hunters and sports shooters are also well represented.

Even though guns are heavily controled, anyone still has the possibility to ensure the safety of their home by getting black powder guns without any hassle.
I don't know any country in Europe besides Switzerland where you can walk into a gunshop, and buy a black powder firearm (although obsolete, it will get the job done alright, we had a story about a bar owner who killed a burglar with a single bullet a few months ago), powder and ammo without any single piece of paper except for an ID to prove that you're over 18.
 
shung, if you and enough friends go out and talk to people every day, you may be able to convince enough people having weapons is infinitely better than not having weapons.

what is the usual voter turn out?
 
Ok just my $.02, take it for what it's worth. What is the only tool that lets a 105 pound girl fight off a 300 pound rapist. The only equalizer is a firearm. Last time I checked a map Switzerland is smaller than all 3 of its neighbors. The only reason they havent come beating down your door is your neutrality and the fact everyone has a gun! IE: no raping and pilledging the little guy with steel! It is part of the reason Mexico told Hitler he was crazy for wanting them to invade the US from the South durring WWII. Every redneck has a shotgun, was the close aproximation. People who arm themselves are not push overs and everyone knows this. Look at what happened in England when guns where outlawed. Violent Crime spiked, because the criminals knew they wouldnt be opposed by a well armed individual. Now the politicians are in hot water and being attacked along with their elderly constituencey who votes. Now they want them back!
 
I know that France has some great laws Barman, no doubt about that ! 8th category of guns (BP) is one of them.. other than that, you have no restriction on suppressors and lasers (that we have..) ! It's not the best part in europe for owning guns, but far from the worst..

btw, do you know what happened to that bar owner ? i think he was assaulted by 3 people, one of them being armed with an ax and being very threathening.. He's the guy charged with something ?

Thx for your support and ideas guys. We will fight !

btw, what does this mean =?

what is the usual voter turn out?
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sorry, my english sucks..
 
ah ok, I see.. depends on the subject actually.. I suspect this one to be pretty voted.. but actually, we never vote on a single matter.. most of the time there are 4 to more subject we have to vote for at the same time.

The result of this vote will be highly dependent on the possible shootings around the world 2 or 3 months BEFORE the vote, that is for sure. Public opinion thinks and vote with its heart, not it's mind..
 
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