This is why I break the rules.

[TheArchDuke]

Last night I was at work (best buy) manning the security cameras. An employee came up to me and told me about a suspicious character. He told me that as he exitted his car, he changed into a very baggy shirt and put on a belt. He was wandering around aimlessly from department to department (usually people at least know what department they're looking to shop in) and to top it off, his buddy was parked right outside the store with the engine running. I followed him on the camera for about 10 minutes. I saw him stuff something in the front of his pants under his shirt. I assumed it was one of our products so I sent someone over to "offer him some assistance". He was visibly nervous even on camera. He asked about FM transmitters and then changed the subject to camcorders before my coworker could answer the first question. After a minute or two, he wandered off by himself again. It looked like he was trying to find a place to ditch whatever he had in his waste band. I sent a manager over to openly confront him. On the camera I saw her walk over to him and ask him what he was hiding under his shirt. He shook his head as if to say it wasn't stolen.
He then lifted his shirt and revealed that is was "only" his foot long knife!

We promptly escorted him out. Nothing bad happened but it sure made me glad that I break company policy by bringing my own knife to work every day.

That isn't the first potentially bad situation we've had this week. We've actually had a few. That same manager (a small woman, probably no more that 110lb.) was threatened with violence in the parking lot a few times. It's been a crazy week.


All of that to say, what would you have done if the situation had escalated when the manager confronted him? I was almost completely on the other side of the store watching on the camera.

 

[heypete]

Being that you have no effective means of immediately intervening in the situation, I would do the following:

1) Immediately call the police.

2) Use the cameras to get as high of a resolution photograph or photographs of the individual. Security footage is notoriously grainy when shown on TV; having the foresight to get a better picture would be useful for the police.

3) If possible, get a photograph of the accomplice outside, and try to get a picture of the car and license plate number.

4) Keep video recording the situation with the individual inside as well as the accomplice outside. Even if they flee in the vehicle, keep recording to the best of your ability (e.g. did the car turn left or right out of the exit?).

You're all the way across the store, so you're not likely to be of direct assistance. In a situation like that, try to be the best witness you can, gather and preserve as much evidence as possible.

 

[TheArchDuke]

Hmm. I disagree and that's because there are a few details I guess I should have pointed out.

1. The desk that I'm at is directly infront of the only exit. I am literally standing at the doorway so if he fled, he'd be running through me.

2. The kid and my manager (again, tiny tiny female) were almost alone in the audio section. It was late so there weren't many other people around. No one in that department but them.

3. I'm probably the only other person in the store with a knife. Safety box cutters don't count. They close automatically and have a guard which reduces the blade length from about 3/4 of an inch to about...nothing.

The kid didn't seem like the type of person who would actually use violence but if he had been, I don't know what I would have done. I certainly would have felt awful for letting my boss confront him alone. Not like I could have known he had a sword in his drawers haha.

 

[Imaginos]

Do Nothing, Not Your Job.

You are not paid to take any action greater than you took. I am quite certain that your job description does not include tackling a knife wielding nutball who is running from the store even if he has a safe over his shoulder.

I can certainly sympathize with your feelings and desire to take some form of action. However, in the greate scheme of things you would be more use in applying first aid and being a good witness than you would trying to stop him.

If you were injured taking aggressive action, there is a really good chance your medical bills would only be covered by workman's comp and you could find yourself out of a job. If you took a knife to him, you WOULD be out of a job post haste.

In your shoes, I would have dialed 911 as soon as the knife was exposed, and quickly located the first aid kit and some saran wrap.

 

[TheArchDuke]

But my manager is my friend. I don't care about store money or my job when compared to her well-being...or anyone else's for that matter.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

fire extinguisher

can be your friend. its not oc but it does get their attention. and i had great results once with a kryptonite bike lock once. but don't get killed over property. just use it to get safe

 

[sicario103]

Hmm from what I understand, you're some sort of security guard?

Well, both heypete and Imaginos got right on the money.

I don't know what type of training requirements you had for that job, but I'm sure you're not trained or qualified to take drastic actions against the guy especially if it can turn out to a knife fight with the guy at the store. Hell, how physical can a segurity guard become legally?
The manager might be your friend and all but you might just aggreviate the situation and endanger her even further. Just imagine what might have happened if you had confronted him? He would have probably drawn his knife? And most likely so would you...... 1. You put your manager in danger. 2. You put yourself in danger also. 3. You would most likely lose your job for carrying a blade for work. And finally 4. You could even face criminal charges... all that for mp3 or whatever...

Instead of carrying a knife, you should consider a a retractable baton or a flashlite
Just call the cops..... I guess your in some sort of mall? I'm sure there's a cop somewhere in or around it inhaling a donut or sipping on a free coffee lol

 

[shotgunkevin]

Not to sound sexist, but I've got to say I'm not enamored with sending a female to "openly confront" a suspicious person. You'd already witnessed him concealing something on his person, and logically thought it was merchandise.
Assuming store policy or your job description prevent you from approaching the person inside the store, are there any men that could be sent in future incidents, preferably a pair? Two men directly approaching one presents a formidible psychological deterrant, and might dissuade the suspect from taking any violent action.

 

[sicario103]

hmm well for a situation like that: shoplifting.... I think sending a female employee is not such a bad idea. Call me sexist if you want but I find it less .... how can I put it.... less threatening than sending a male employee that could further escalate the situation.

 

[shotgunkevin]

he wandered off by himself again. It looked like he was trying to find a place to ditch whatever he had in his waste band.

The situation had already escalated. The man's actions prove that he was not an ordinary shopper.

That isn't the first potentially bad situation we've had this week. We've actually had a few. That same manager (a small woman, probably no more that 110lb.) was threatened with violence in the parking lot a few times. It's been a crazy week

my manager is my friend. I don't care about store money or my job when compared to her well-being...or anyone else's for that matter.

I personally would look for other alternatives to sending a petite lady into a risky situation, even if it was clearly petty shoplifting. We've all heard of even uniformed armed guards being injured and killed by shoplifters desperately seeking to escape. And in point of fact, this man wasn't shoplifting, he was adjusting his weapon.
I fully understand that at this particular store, during this particular shift, there may not be anyone else in authority to take action. However, if I were in ArchDuke's shoes, I'd ask store management to consider having sufficient managerial staff to resolve future incidents.

 

[Hanzo581]

I don't know the laws is CA but here you have to wait to confront a shoplifter after he or she has exited the building. And most stores around here have a policy that a security person is terminated for making a "bad stop" meaning they stop a suspect that turns out to not have item/items on their person at time of stop, and you have to make sure that you have seen, plainly and clearly, that a piece of merchandise was concealed by the suspect.

 

[thebaldguy]

Let the police handle those dangerous situations. I know your employer doesn't care enough about your safety. I'm guessing that such a large knife is illegal to conceal. Call 911 and give a good description. Don't ever risk your life for Best Buy; it's not worth it.

 

[Darth Muffin]

I'd call police fist. I would not get involved in confronting the guy.

Do you have access to the PA system? Make an announcement to the bad guy that you have him and his friend in the parking lot under surveilance and have some great pictures to give the police and suggest that he leave.

This might panic other customers and employees, but if things seem to be going badly and the manager's wellbeing is in serious danger I think it's worth it.

 

[Byron Quick]

How big is your knife, friend? Knife against knife, the odds are you're going to get cut. If you've got a three inch blade and your opponent has a foot long blade, the odds are you're going to get very badly.

I'd rather have a garden rake. Or some other weapon with greater range than a person armed with a foot long blade.

Heck, I'll take a Rubbermaid plastic garbage can lid to use as a shield and the cord and handset from a phone over a knife against the guy.

Breaking the rules is one thing. Getting into a fight with a guy armed with what is almost a short sword is something else entirely. Friend, if that is why you break the rules, you need to buy a big life insurance policy and make the most loved person in your life the beneficiary. You won't have to pay the premiums very long.

Exactly what training do you have in knife fighting? I've had a fair bit. Enough to know I don't want a knife if you have one. I want a gun. Or a pile of bricks. Or a garden rake. Or a chain. Or a six foot 2X4. If I were being attacked by a knife wielding assailant, about the only way I'd draw a knife in response is if that was all I had and I was trapped in a cul de sac.

It sounds as if you need some training. If you have had training dealing with knife fighting, you need to forget what you think you know and go get some good training.

 

[Shweboner]

Well thats quite the dilemma...

Now you cant just go out and kick this guys ass for acting funny and carrying a knife.

you think he is stealing, so you call the manager. yeah she is tiny, but in these situations you cant send the stock guys out to talk to him. She is the only choice.

So you cant leave your area, she might need some back up...

Next time I suggest you call some ppl in other departments or ven the stock room, ask them to go hang out near the area that the mgr is confronting the guy. your badguy will be less confrontational when there are a few more employees 20 feet away.


OR

since you like to break the rules carrying your knife anyway... why not carry a pistol? You get fired either way, what have you got to lose?

 

[Phenom]

Forget the knife, get a chainsaw and go Leatherface on their rearends

 

[TheArchDuke]

All good advice.

Let me clear some things up (even though I am coming around to your side a bit).

I am not a security guard. We don't have security guards, we have "Loss Prevention team". All they do is watch the cameras and check receipts at the door. I am an inventory guy from the back room. It's our responsibility to cover the LP guy's lunches and breaks so we're trained in LP. But that doesn't include getting physical. We're not allowed to physically touch anyone to keep them from leaving...that includes people who openly walk out with a TV or something.

Like someone guessed correctly, I'm not allowed to leave my desk for any reason.

Another thing, when I said "I sent" my manager over, it was more like she walked up, looked at the monitor and said "Well, why didn't anyone talk to him about it?" and walked off and I stood there blinking and said "oh...uh...ok".

Total type A personality....unlike me.


Our policy when we see someone shoplifting is to offer them customer service and try to spook them which is what I had been doing up until that point.

I wasn't about to draw my knife just because he revealed his. I guess there would technically be nothing I could do if he drew his knife on her and I was atleast 25 yards away with a dozen shelves in between. You guys are probably right.


Oh and the reason I don't carry a pistol is because it's not only against bes buy rules but it's against the law for me to even OWN one haha. I'm only 20.

I wouldn't risk my life for best buy but I would risk my life for another human being if I thought it would do any good. I guess in this situation it wouldn't have.


Thanks for the advice.

 

[Cybert]

I have this to say about breaking rules. I will defend the person of myself and those I love way beyond the extend of the law.

 

[TheArchDuke]

Yeah that saying about being judged by 12 men rather than being carried by six rings true, but I have no way of aquiring a hand gun until november. But rest assured, a brand new baby eagle will be my birthday present to myself.

 

[Jeff F]

I second the fire extinguisher, dry chemical at five feet or closer right in the face, pack the nose and they are going down hard puking all over the place.

 

[ec-10]

*so I sent someone over to "offer him some assistance"*


My new cell phone is one of those pay as you go models from Best Buy. I hardly use a cell phone so why pay $50/month with a two year contract? I am aware that certain criminal elements use these types of phone.

I personally happen to love Best Buy. I have been know to kill an hour in the local Best Buy without even thinking about it (just browsing the different departments). I went there the other day to pick up a minute card for the phone and to generally browse around with the intent of finding a DVD worthy of adding to my collection. I grabbed the minute card first and then started to meander through the store. I held the minute card in such a way that it was always in full view of the employees and the security cameras. These cards are small and would be easy for a thief to pocket (not that they would work without activation at the cash register).

I was in the store for maybe twenty minutes and had about ten employees ask me if I "needed help" or "can I help you find something". This is very unusual for this store. One of these employees was a manager who walked all the way across the store to confront me. I was in the camera section and I noticed this guy walking at a fast pace from behind the service counter at the front of the store.

I finally made a movie selection and headed for the cash register. I paid for the card and the movie. As I walked toward the exit the security guy looked at me and offered a "have a good night sir" in a monotone voice. Just to mess with him, I winked and walked out.


From now on I will grab my minute card on the way to the cash register thank you.

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Archduke, is your knife a folding knife?

Also, I've never heard of a foot-long folder, so I assume the shady character had a fixed-blade concealed? That's illegal CCW in CA and you could have had the cops bust him for that alone.

 

[TheArchDuke]

EC-10,

Yeah that's why we don't just ask "Hey, what do you have in your pants?"

If they're shop lifting hopefully they'll stop. If they aren't, they'll think we're unusually nice...in a creepy way.

The security guy is supposed to say goodnight to everyone...he sounded bored because he probably was haha.

 

[TheArchDuke]

***qoute***
Archduke, is your knife a folding knife?

Also, I've never heard of a foot-long folder, so I assume the shady character had a fixed-blade concealed? That's illegal CCW in CA and you could have had the cops bust him for that alone.
***qoute***


Yeah mine is a folding knife.
His was sort of like one of those black ultra tactical ninja tantos.

Like this only shorter:

 

[Autolycus]

So when your 21 are you going to carry a pistol? You said you dont carry because its against Best Buy rules before you even mentioned its against the law.

So I take it you are more concerned with Best Buys policy. Anyways isnt the knife also against Best Buys rules?

My advice would be to call the cops. Its their job not yours. I would also advise planning on carrying the knife if your going to get into some sort of confrontation and pull it due to the other person having a knife. Are you trained to fight with a knife? If not I suspect OC spray would serve you a lot better.

Even so you should not be confronting anyone as it is against your company policy and its not even your job. You might be better off just letting them run out with a few DVDs or CDs. And just get a description of the guy and the car he got into for the cops.