This is why I break the rules.
- Thread starter TheArchDuke
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TheArchDuke
Member
"You might be better off just letting them run out with a few DVDs or CDs"
I said I didn't care about best buy property. My concern was for my manager's safety.
NOPHILLY,
Yeah I've seen the light haha
I said I didn't care about best buy property. My concern was for my manager's safety.
NOPHILLY,
Yeah I've seen the light haha
And here I thought they wanted to help me.
Now I know why I am asked if I need some help about five to ten times when I shop at Best Buy. I usually go into Best Buy to kill some time while other people are shopping at nearby "boring" stores. Since I am not really there to buy anything, I tend to just walk from one department to another. Now I know that they only asked me if I needed help because they thought I was nicking things
. Next time I go in there I think I will do the pick and drop (pick something up and start walking with it, then when I go through a blind spot I set it down and keep walking), keep the guys on their toes 
. Hmm, it is sad how bored one can get while waiting for the ladies to finish shopping.
Anywho [waits for praises for getting back on topic], I think you handled the situation the best you could. Confronting the guy with a knife would have been unwise. In the event that he stabbed your friend, the best thing you could do was call 911 and then go and try and stop the bleeding (heavy pressure) until proper care can get there. Maybe also get someone to write down the plate number and model/color of the get away car. That with the video you already took, should help the police out a lot.
Now I know why I am asked if I need some help about five to ten times when I shop at Best Buy. I usually go into Best Buy to kill some time while other people are shopping at nearby "boring" stores. Since I am not really there to buy anything, I tend to just walk from one department to another. Now I know that they only asked me if I needed help because they thought I was nicking things
. Next time I go in there I think I will do the pick and drop (pick something up and start walking with it, then when I go through a blind spot I set it down and keep walking), keep the guys on their toes . Hmm, it is sad how bored one can get while waiting for the ladies to finish shopping.Anywho [waits for praises for getting back on topic], I think you handled the situation the best you could. Confronting the guy with a knife would have been unwise. In the event that he stabbed your friend, the best thing you could do was call 911 and then go and try and stop the bleeding (heavy pressure) until proper care can get there. Maybe also get someone to write down the plate number and model/color of the get away car. That with the video you already took, should help the police out a lot.
TheArchDuke
Member
Haha well we're also supposed to try an contact every customer and offer help so that might have been it haha. But we keep sending people over if the guy is suspicious.
Valkman
Member
If you can't do what gak suggests (which is the WAY) I would rely on good customers like myself to pull my legal firearm and stop said criminal type for you. Unless I'm fixated by a big-screen plasma, of course. Then you're on your own!
Not your merchandise why risk the poor little girls life and your own life for a company that will not back you if you make a bad stop.
Let them take anything they can carry and hold the door for them if you have to and call 911 that's all you are required to do by the signs of your employer. (IE they did not supply you a gun) What do they expect you to do tackle an armed shoplifter? Die for their stuff? I do not think so, they are not paying enough for that.
Let them take anything they can carry and hold the door for them if you have to and call 911 that's all you are required to do by the signs of your employer. (IE they did not supply you a gun) What do they expect you to do tackle an armed shoplifter? Die for their stuff? I do not think so, they are not paying enough for that.
Best Buy's employee handbook does not specifically say that weapons are prohibited. Instead, it lists them, among other things, as "innapropriate behaviour", which could result in termination or other action. Not exactly cut and dried, but unlikely to be interpreted in your favor, either. The corporate campus in Minnesota is heavily posted and metal detectors are in use.
gunsmith
member
I used to be in armed security in CA
I would say a baby eagle isn't your best option for in store ccw.
A pocket rocket is your best bet.
A .25 berrretta or some such. If you can find a .380 keltec used
or a really small glock that might be suitable too.
I have been stabbed twice, the first time my opponent brandished a knife and I elected to fight him anyway (I will never do that again) 2nd time a long story.
Knife wounds really REALLY hurt. I would have backed off and called the cops, what if he didn't want to go??
In CA a concealed fixed blade is a felony, while if you legally own a pistol (if you buy one legaly in CA it's defacto registered) it's a misdemeanor (carrying concealed) ...a flashlight like a big maglight can be seen as a deadly weapon (depends on the cops/DA) if I were you I wouldn't use one in a fight (found that out the hard way) a big pepper spray like they use on grizzly is my preferred less then lethal then gun. CA law is that an impact weapon like an asp, big maglight, billy club, base ball bat are all felonies.
Get your guard card and when you turn 21 get an armed guard card to go with it.
It makes CA gun ownership easier and you'll be exempt from the "safety certificate"
I would say a baby eagle isn't your best option for in store ccw.
A pocket rocket is your best bet.
A .25 berrretta or some such. If you can find a .380 keltec used
or a really small glock that might be suitable too.
I have been stabbed twice, the first time my opponent brandished a knife and I elected to fight him anyway (I will never do that again) 2nd time a long story.
Knife wounds really REALLY hurt. I would have backed off and called the cops, what if he didn't want to go??
In CA a concealed fixed blade is a felony, while if you legally own a pistol (if you buy one legaly in CA it's defacto registered) it's a misdemeanor (carrying concealed) ...a flashlight like a big maglight can be seen as a deadly weapon (depends on the cops/DA) if I were you I wouldn't use one in a fight (found that out the hard way) a big pepper spray like they use on grizzly is my preferred less then lethal then gun. CA law is that an impact weapon like an asp, big maglight, billy club, base ball bat are all felonies.
Get your guard card and when you turn 21 get an armed guard card to go with it.
It makes CA gun ownership easier and you'll be exempt from the "safety certificate"
CONFRONT is different from RESTRAIN. You dont need *anything* to confront someone. Simply walking up to a guy and telling him not to steal your stuff doesnt require a burdon of proof. Now if you actually put your hands on him and arrest him for doing so, that is a completely different story.
Im actually having a hard time figuring out what this guy did wrong. The OP states that he didnt steal anything, and his only crime was carrying a knife, something that the OP himself confesses to doing as well.
I walk into Best Buy all the time without any clear idea of what I am looking to buy and I end up wandering around, its a fun place to browse, and sometimes i purchase something I didnt think I needed untill I saw it. I guess I would scare the crap out of you since I generally carry a knife AND a pistol while I am doing this.
hirundo82
Member
I'd like to point something out to the posters saying they might be sexist for saying that you shouldn't have sent the female manager to confront the guy. It is not about gender--it is about size. By the OP's admission, the manager is a small woman.
I doubt anyone would advocate sending a 110 pound man to confront the guy either. If the manager were 6 feet tall and an accomplished martial artist, no matter which gender, it would be a less bad (but still not good) idea.
But the problem is disparity of force, not gender. It just happens that women tend to be smaller than men and therefore at a disadvantage in a physical confrontation, if all other parameters are equal (training, available tools, mindset, etc.).
I doubt anyone would advocate sending a 110 pound man to confront the guy either. If the manager were 6 feet tall and an accomplished martial artist, no matter which gender, it would be a less bad (but still not good) idea.
But the problem is disparity of force, not gender. It just happens that women tend to be smaller than men and therefore at a disadvantage in a physical confrontation, if all other parameters are equal (training, available tools, mindset, etc.).
I think the most important thing to remember in this situation is that there was no concrete verifiable threat to life, but if there was and I was behind a desk in another room:
If it were me, I would have immediately called the police. I also would feel inclined to get involved in the situation in order to protect another, but given "my" location and means of defence, my intervention would have been ineffective. Therefore I would have called law enforcement, been the best witness I could, and stayed put.
If I was legally carrying a handgun, I would have done the same thing. I believe that those who threaten the life and property of others should be killed, but the fear of criminal and civil litigation compels me to only use deadly force or the threat of deadly force only if I have no other choice. In this particular situation, I would have had another choice--to call the police.
If it were me, I would have immediately called the police. I also would feel inclined to get involved in the situation in order to protect another, but given "my" location and means of defence, my intervention would have been ineffective. Therefore I would have called law enforcement, been the best witness I could, and stayed put.
If I was legally carrying a handgun, I would have done the same thing. I believe that those who threaten the life and property of others should be killed, but the fear of criminal and civil litigation compels me to only use deadly force or the threat of deadly force only if I have no other choice. In this particular situation, I would have had another choice--to call the police.
DrDremel
Member
Judging from the description and your open willingness to break the rules of your job, I don't think you are a good candidate for your position. The fact is that carrying a weapon is considered innapropriate behavior by your company. I am sure carrying a gun on the job is against campany policy and may be illegal as well. The person in question did nothing wrong. In fact, he was doing nothing less than what you yourself were doing. Carrying a knife. He may have been concealing it poorly, or carrying one that is larger than legal, but essentially there is no difference. You are not a cop, or ever a security guard or "loss prevention" employee. It is obvious that there has been little or no training in the legal aspects of your actions.
As for protecting the manager, that is not your job nor is it always going to be possible to protect her in the store due to the size of the store. Having a gun, while you are in another part of the store would not give her any more protection either. If someone were to start slashing with a knife, you would not have time to make it to them in time to do anything but confront the attacker after they have wounded or killed their victim unless you were already nearby which in this instance you were not. Also keep in mind that a gun does not always win over a knife in close quarters. If ther person were trying to steal, pulling the knife or gun would have the possibility escalating the situation, possibly increasing the chances of youself and the person you were hoping to protect to get hurt.
What if the person you described was carrying a handgun? If I were in the store, legally carrying, and was fidgeting with my belt because my gun was uncomfortable and was confronted by you or your manager asking to see what is under my shirt, would you draw if I lifted to show my handgun? Since you asked to see, I would not be doing anything illegal or threatening. You would have no probable cause to draw. If you were to draw, I could sue for your brandishing a weapon, It would involve your store as well since they are responsible for your actions. You may have to pay for your own defense, and would surely be fired. This would make any chance of another job harder to get, may result in the loss of your CCW if you have one. If you didn't have a CCW, this may result in you not getting one in the future either.
I would suggest you need training in the responsible use of a firearm as a civilian and the proper use of force. Being that you are in Califonia, it would seem probable that you would have no chance of escaping prosecution. Before you get the handgun, get a CCW. If you can't get a CCW, realize that almost any situation short of someone already physically attacking you will result in jail time and that you will be facing charges no matter what.
I think best response was stated earlier:
"Duct tape trauma plates to your chest, and maybe shield the manager with your briefcase while your partner assembles and loads the store-issued breakdown NEF single-shot 300 WinMag with an 18" bbl."
As for protecting the manager, that is not your job nor is it always going to be possible to protect her in the store due to the size of the store. Having a gun, while you are in another part of the store would not give her any more protection either. If someone were to start slashing with a knife, you would not have time to make it to them in time to do anything but confront the attacker after they have wounded or killed their victim unless you were already nearby which in this instance you were not. Also keep in mind that a gun does not always win over a knife in close quarters. If ther person were trying to steal, pulling the knife or gun would have the possibility escalating the situation, possibly increasing the chances of youself and the person you were hoping to protect to get hurt.
What if the person you described was carrying a handgun? If I were in the store, legally carrying, and was fidgeting with my belt because my gun was uncomfortable and was confronted by you or your manager asking to see what is under my shirt, would you draw if I lifted to show my handgun? Since you asked to see, I would not be doing anything illegal or threatening. You would have no probable cause to draw. If you were to draw, I could sue for your brandishing a weapon, It would involve your store as well since they are responsible for your actions. You may have to pay for your own defense, and would surely be fired. This would make any chance of another job harder to get, may result in the loss of your CCW if you have one. If you didn't have a CCW, this may result in you not getting one in the future either.
I would suggest you need training in the responsible use of a firearm as a civilian and the proper use of force. Being that you are in Califonia, it would seem probable that you would have no chance of escaping prosecution. Before you get the handgun, get a CCW. If you can't get a CCW, realize that almost any situation short of someone already physically attacking you will result in jail time and that you will be facing charges no matter what.
I think best response was stated earlier:
"Duct tape trauma plates to your chest, and maybe shield the manager with your briefcase while your partner assembles and loads the store-issued breakdown NEF single-shot 300 WinMag with an 18" bbl."
TheArchDuke
Member
I'm not going to carry a gun into my store, ever. For two reasons, it's too risky and I plan on quitting soon.
Carrying a small folding knife is usually over-looked even though it's technically against the rules. A lot in the inventory team carries one because the store box cutters are terrible.
Also, I know there was no reason for me to draw any kind of weapon or to even confront him with anything other than "what is that under your shirt?"
This was a WHAT IF thread. I thought that was pretty clear.
I wouldn't have thought much of this situation if it weren't for the fact that the knife was illegal to carry concealed and the kid knew it AND the fact that his friend was parked right outside with the engine running. He technically didn't break any of Best Buy's rules but according to another poster, he was committing a felony and we don't want that in our store. He's lucky we DIDN'T call the cops. There's a difference between what he did and what I do. I know philosphically there is no difference but technically he was committing a crime and we just wanted him to leave.
Carrying a small folding knife is usually over-looked even though it's technically against the rules. A lot in the inventory team carries one because the store box cutters are terrible.
Also, I know there was no reason for me to draw any kind of weapon or to even confront him with anything other than "what is that under your shirt?"
This was a WHAT IF thread. I thought that was pretty clear.
I wouldn't have thought much of this situation if it weren't for the fact that the knife was illegal to carry concealed and the kid knew it AND the fact that his friend was parked right outside with the engine running. He technically didn't break any of Best Buy's rules but according to another poster, he was committing a felony and we don't want that in our store. He's lucky we DIDN'T call the cops. There's a difference between what he did and what I do. I know philosphically there is no difference but technically he was committing a crime and we just wanted him to leave.
Not to be critical...but, I'm really curious why you/the store didn't call the police. Here you have a guy who is likely a thief and perhaps worse, and he is illegally carrying a 12" knife concealed. He might have a long criminal history... and he probably went down the street to victimize someone else.
It's against Dominos company policy for me to pack heat, but I do anyway. Who are they to tell you you can't defend yourself?
Besides, whats the worst they can do, fire you? Pfft, you can get another job. Since random body searches are not conducted, theres no reason they should ever find out, lest you have to deal with a horrible situation.
Besides, whats the worst they can do, fire you? Pfft, you can get another job. Since random body searches are not conducted, theres no reason they should ever find out, lest you have to deal with a horrible situation.
gunsmith
member
i did the domino's
delivery gig too,one of my co workers shot someone (legal shoot)...
there was a delivery to a bad hood and I volunteered,they said
"one of our other employee's already shot a guy, we don't want to make it two"
they ""knew"" but only told me ""official"" policy was don't carry
delivery gig too,one of my co workers shot someone (legal shoot)...
there was a delivery to a bad hood and I volunteered,they said
"one of our other employee's already shot a guy, we don't want to make it two"
they ""knew"" but only told me ""official"" policy was don't carry
Lupinus
Member
I carry a folder every day to work
At least three times a week we end up dealing with a hood rat trying to rip us off or giving attitude when asked/told/escorted from the store. And none have gotten down to throwing punches but plenty have gotten attitude and come close a few times.
At least three times a week we end up dealing with a hood rat trying to rip us off or giving attitude when asked/told/escorted from the store. And none have gotten down to throwing punches but plenty have gotten attitude and come close a few times.
Well, I learned something valuable! EC-10's post just told me how to get service at Best Buy! Just pick up a small item and walk around in a few departments...
A manager will come over and ask if I need help. No more waiting around for 30 minutes, hoping a clerk will help.
I'll definitely have to try this. I need to start looking suspicious...
I feel so empowered...
A manager will come over and ask if I need help. No more waiting around for 30 minutes, hoping a clerk will help.
I'll definitely have to try this. I need to start looking suspicious...
I feel so empowered...
Sort of. He lives in California and is violation of the concealed weapon law. Yeah... the law might be wrong, but such laws are frequently enforced (and with good reason) when dealing with shady individuals who are behaving strangely.
silverlance
Member
good job.
I don't know why so many are ripping on him for not calling the cops, not "sticking to his job and let the well paid manager deal with the problem", etc.
1. Call the cops? This is a manager's call. He DID tell the manager. Did she decide to call the cops? No. He then did the next best thing. Going over the manager's head and calling the cops would have gotten him fired for sure.
2. Let the manager deal with the problem alone? Not acceptable to me. I CANNOT BELIEVE I AM HEARING THIS FROM THR MEMBERS. Would you folks have also "let the pilots / stewardesses / airline company" take care of the problem on a hazy morning in September? Besides, he KNOWS this girl. Sure, maybe it's the brass balls talking or the white knight syndrome, but if I sent a girl that I am a friend of out to get slashed up alone while I hid in the back I'd never be able to hold my head up again.
In hindsight the only thing I can say is that while a knife is a great tool it is a horrible weapon unless you plan on sticking someone who's unarmed. Complement that knife with a 2oz (to make it cal legal) can of OC. Also memorize where weapons of opportunity are (fire ext, brooms, fire axe, curtain rod).
And, carry a cell phone so you can make the call when the SHTF.
You're in CA like me, so no CCW.
Might want to consider a new job, too. Being a working stiff sucks.
I don't know why so many are ripping on him for not calling the cops, not "sticking to his job and let the well paid manager deal with the problem", etc.
1. Call the cops? This is a manager's call. He DID tell the manager. Did she decide to call the cops? No. He then did the next best thing. Going over the manager's head and calling the cops would have gotten him fired for sure.
2. Let the manager deal with the problem alone? Not acceptable to me. I CANNOT BELIEVE I AM HEARING THIS FROM THR MEMBERS. Would you folks have also "let the pilots / stewardesses / airline company" take care of the problem on a hazy morning in September? Besides, he KNOWS this girl. Sure, maybe it's the brass balls talking or the white knight syndrome, but if I sent a girl that I am a friend of out to get slashed up alone while I hid in the back I'd never be able to hold my head up again.
In hindsight the only thing I can say is that while a knife is a great tool it is a horrible weapon unless you plan on sticking someone who's unarmed. Complement that knife with a 2oz (to make it cal legal) can of OC. Also memorize where weapons of opportunity are (fire ext, brooms, fire axe, curtain rod).
And, carry a cell phone so you can make the call when the SHTF.
You're in CA like me, so no CCW.
Might want to consider a new job, too. Being a working stiff sucks.
Bob R
Member
This is the Best Buy you want to go to if you need help.....then again, maybe not.
http://www.improveverywhere.com/mission_view.php?mission_id=57
If it were known he a had a "foot long" knife stuffed in his pants, I doubt anyone would have gone out alone. Maybe not gone at all and called the police. By he time they got there most likely the knife carrying guy would have been gone with a 42" plasma TV.
You did all you could given the circumstances. I wasn't there, you were, and you made the call as you saw fit. You can monday morning Q-back it all you want and come up with lots of alternatives. That is easy, being there, going through it and going home with all your parts that night is all that matters.
bob
http://www.improveverywhere.com/mission_view.php?mission_id=57
If it were known he a had a "foot long" knife stuffed in his pants, I doubt anyone would have gone out alone. Maybe not gone at all and called the police. By he time they got there most likely the knife carrying guy would have been gone with a 42" plasma TV.
You did all you could given the circumstances. I wasn't there, you were, and you made the call as you saw fit. You can monday morning Q-back it all you want and come up with lots of alternatives. That is easy, being there, going through it and going home with all your parts that night is all that matters.
bob
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