Thoughts on my new gun safe?

[TamThompson]

OK, I probably should have researched this more thoroughly, but I was at a gun store and had been *meaning* to buy a safe for years, so I bought a fire-lined American Security Teton model for about $735. I'm not concerned so much about whether I got a good deal as I am about whether I bought a high-quality gun safe.

I make my living as a freelance writer and I'm also trying to get my fiction stories and novels published, so one of the things that went into the safe is a zip disk of my novels, stories, and published articles, along with the guns and the usual documents.

Good gun safe? (I can't find any internet sites that rate gun safes.)

 

[dav]

It is a good safe... but.

If your house burns down, the safe is going with it. It is fire-resistant for a short time only.

A person who knows about safes can get into it in under 15 minutes. It is proof against casual theft for a long time, or professional theft for a short time only.

Real fire-proof, theft-proof safes are not available due to price to the average consumer.

You did fine considering the alternatives.

 

[TamThompson]

Dav,
The safe says it keeps the interior at 350 degrees for 30 minutes when the exterior hits 1275. We live in a nice subdivision and I'm guessing it wouldn't take the Austin Fire Department very long to get out here--they're close by. I do worry about my computer back-ups, since an ex-computer guy at the gun store told me that magnetic disks are compromised at 250 degrees...

We're not average consumers. What sort of price range would we be looking at for serious, iron-clad fire/theft prevention?

 

[BerettaNut92]

Tam, back up onto CDs as they are cheap and plentiful. Being optical they are more durable than magnetic media.

Store offsite as well (work, in-law's house, bank safe deposit box, etc.)

 

[TamThompson]

Skunk,
Can do--my husband's got a CD burner, and that thought had occurred to me. I was also planning to store another zip disk and/or CD out at our ranch.

 

[musher]

You could also buy one of the cheap fire resistant document boxes at Sams or CostCo. Put your disks in that. Put that in the gun safe.

 

[Navy joe]

Second that. Get a Sentry fire safe at WallyWorld, put the media in that, then the whole thing in the safe. If you put it on a center shelf out of contact with any of the safe walls it should stay cool for a long while.

Better yet, don't smoke in bed or shoot flaming arrows in the house.

 

[novalooker]

This is an interesting thread.

With my son walking and starting to climb stairs on his own my wife is after me to sell my guns or get them off my closet floor into a safe.

if I was just an average person, but couldnt afford even $750 for a safe, how much should I budget towards its purchase and what should I look for?

Not too concerned with fire, I have insurance and none of my guns are museum pieces, but I would like to prevent theft et al, but most important is keeping my young son away. Is a stack On like they sell at Wally World worth the investment or should I drop a couple of hundred more. Can I get something for $400 ... or am I looking at the ugly cheap and not very securing looking stack on for $120 or else I spend $750+

Like the original poster indicated there is a surprising lack of information on gun safes on the internet. I can learn more than I need to know about any other aspect of firearms, but the most important one seems to be absent.

Any a
Thanks

 

[pbhome71]

The Stack-On lock box will work for your son, at least for awhile. However, it won't help you with thief.

I think they also make a low cost safe. I don't think it offers much protection against folks coming in for your guns, but it should deter the casual thieves. You want to make sure that you bolt the safe down, though. This make it a bit harder to take the whole thing.

 

[JohnBT]

"What sort of price range would we be looking at for serious, iron-clad fire/theft prevention?"

Warning: Scary info ahead. Big bucks.

www.brownsafe.com/gun_safe.html

Look at the chart of wholesale prices at the bottom of the page and then add in shipping and paying someone to move it inside. Then go back up the page and look for the link to 'burglarly rated' for the definitions of the Classes and you'll see that $4,000 to $5,000 wholesale for an E-rated safe is just the beginning of what you can spend.

John

 

[TamThompson]

John,
Thanks for the info. It's something to plan for.

The next step, after getting a gun safe, was to decide on a procedure for what to lock up when. We have a two-story house, and I like to keep a gun or two downstairs during the day, and of course a nightstand gun upstairs, and my carry guns are one of the downstairs ones and an additional pocket gun (a Keltec.)

Basic principle I followed is that nothing that's not currently needed goes in the safe. During the day, my carry guns and a downstairs gun are out. At night, my primary carry gun and the downstairs gun get locked up, loaded, so that if I'm forced to open the safe, I grab a loaded, cocked gun from it.

I do carry the pocket gun upstairs, and keep it there at night along with nightstand gun and Mr. 12-gauge.

Going out of town, any guns not taken are locked up.

Looking at the safes, some of them came with just a key lock, some with just a combination lock, and for $100 more, a combination of key and combination lock. I thought the extra $100 was worth it for both locks (i.e., you have to use a key AND get the combination right to get into the safe. Perhaps it will slow the trained thieves down some...)

We don't have kids, and rarely have kid visitors, but if we did I'd lock up all guns except for my carry guns, which I would keep on my person (not just in my purse, but ON ME.)

 

[JohnBT]

Lock up all your heavy cutting tools (or the carbide blades at least), chisels, torches, prybars and big hammers.

The dial lock with the key is convenient for me since my large safe is in an out of the way room. Let's say I want to spend an afternoon watching ball games and working on some guns. I can dial the safe open, take a gun or two out, and then lock it with just the key. Additional trips to the safe only require the key (and turning the handle a third of a turn of course.)

Just make sure to turn the dial and lock it with the key before you leave the house or go to bed.

The push button lock would be easier to use, but I had too many people warn me to avoid it due to reliability concerns.

John

 

[Master Blaster]

Keep the safe hidden from sight, dont show it to visitors or workmen who come in to do repairs.

Get a good LOUD alarm system that calls you on your cell phone or calls a monitoring service.

If the crook has no time he wont be able to break into your safe IF he can find it.

350 for an hour with moisture will most likely destroy your firearms or anything else you keep in the safe except paper documents and they may also be destroyed.

Insurance is good.

Teach your child about guns from an early age, childproofing a gun is alot harder than gunproofing a child.

 

[madkiwi]

I have an AmSec Teton 5924. I think it was good value for the price, but I would suggest you replace the standard lock, if it isn't too late (I had to order mine, took 5 weeks to be delivered). Pay the extra $75 and get the Seargent and Greenleaf combination (Group II) instead. Mine shipped without the upgrade, AmSec admitted the error and sent the S&G lock to an authorized dealer, who then came over and installed it. First off he couldn't believe how cheesy the original lock was, he was very surprised they would sell such a POS. Second (and important for this story) he had a very hard time drilling the new mounting holes for the S&G lock. He was surprised at how tough the door was, which I was happy to hear. In case you are wondering though, the S&G lock comes with a drill resistant mounting plate. I was glad it was on AmSec's dime, it took him 3 hours to change the locks.

Our home is up to date code with sprinklers, so fire is not my worry. In addition, I have a sophisticated alarm system that phones my cell, the wife's, then my neighbor (just in case he doesn't notice the attic mounted siren pointed towards his house). I get armed response in seconds (he's a Special Agent with US Customs). The alarm has vibration sensors attached to the safe, just in case they bypass all the motions and the door/window sensors.

Think "layered protection".

madkiwi

 

[JPM70535]

Inexpensive Gun Safes are for keeping honest people at bay. Generally speaking you get exactly what you are willing to pay for.

Stack- On gun cabinets are great ffor keeping youngsters from satisfying their curiosity, but that is about all. Still, it is better than nothing.

The Sentry line of Gun Safes sold at Wally World are just about one half step up from a Stack-On. Every one I have seen with one exception has 5 active locking bolts (Pins that extend out from the safe door when the handle is turned. Sentry Safes usually have a maximum of 5 locking bolts, 3 on the side opposite the hinges, 1 top and1 bottom, and none on the hinge side. For the asking price, usually around $300, they are not a bad deal, just don't expect them to withstand a determined effort to break in.
The one exception to the above is a model called the Executive. It has 12 locking bolts (1" diameter), has a door that appears to be in the neighborhood of 3/16" with other panels made from what I think is 1/8" steel. 5 of the 12 locking bolts are on the hinge side adding much to the security factor. The price when I found mine on sale was $400+ The only drawback I noted was the weight, just a little over 300# My solution to the problem was to line the very bottom of the safe floor with lead ingots that are destined to be cast into bullets at some future date. Weight was upped to around 450#. Added to that the weight of my guns and ammo and the weight approaches 500#. It has been several years since I've seen one so they may or may not still be produced.

Of course the Safe I really want I can't afford. I forget who makes it but it looks like an Armoire and costs $3500.

 

[Highland Ranger]

Do a search on "residential security container" here; someone was a safe expert and provided loads of useful information about home gun safes.

Re your zip disk - definately keep an offsite copy. Also, suggest optical (DVD or DC) media Vs magnetic - lasts longer and is more durable.

 

[Citadel99]

Do you really think the average home burglar has the skills to break into a decent safe? My intuition is no.

Mark

 

[JohnBT]

Define 'decent safe'.

Define average crack addict.

A 4- or 5-grand safe - probably not.

The typical run-of-the-mill gun safe(a.k.a. Residential Security Container) costing a grand or two? Yep, not much to it if they have the time, the desire and some basic tools.

I've read reports on how it's been done, but I don't make a habit of describing the various methods.

Of course, with the smaller safes they can haul them off and open them later. If 2 or 3 guys moved it in it can go out the same way. That's why it's important to bolt them to the floor and wall. They might be able to get it loose, but the extra time required might deter them.

Having said all that, I'm primarily concerned about the average crackhead pulling a smash and grab.

John