Thoughts on the new triggers for the AR

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george burns

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There see to be several new trigger systems for the AR platform. Some are called Binary, Tac com, echo, etc. Any thoughts on these for Home Defense scenarios? Or just plain range fun?
If it's been covered sorry, just point me to the thread. I did a search and didn't find it.
 
Ahh, the tactifool triggers.

IMHO, A binary type trigger would be very dangerous in a home defense roll, for the average shooter.

On these style triggers, you press the trigger for one shot then release and get a second shot instead of just a reset.

This means if you were to pull the trigger inward, then discover the threat has ended after one round, you must KEEP THE TRIGGER PULLED then activate your safety BEFORE YOU REMOVE YOUR FINGER from the trigger shoe with a binary reset. Failing to do so, will result in an unintended round being fired on reset. Not a good thing.

Stick with a Geissele, if you want an upgrade trigger for your AR15 platform and leave the gimmick triggers for the mall ninjas.
 
Calling "tactifool" & "mall ninjas" is not very high road commentary.

Since as far as I know, all these trick triggers cost more than a Geissele and thus are impossible to recommend for any serious usage.

For range fun, they might help you shoot near machine-gun fast and have more control than with a bump fire stock. If thats what you want, they might help. But skilled shooters can run a Geissele as fast or faster.

The Tac-Con is a normal ~3.5lb trigger whose "gimmick" turns what would normally be a bug into a feature -- it has a special safety selector that has a third position that introduces "trigger slap" (like on a poor Century AK) to give tactile feedback that you can pull the trigger again. It might help you shoot faster if just starting out, but there are youtube videos showing a Geissele outrunning it.

But IMHO shooting machine-gun fast is advanced fun requiring a seriously safe shooting space, I think a bump-fire stock is a cheaper way to scratch that itch unless you've the means for the real deal.
 
As far as a quality reliable "match type" AR trigger, Geisele is hard to beat. We replaced the triggers in our M110 sniper rifles with these, and they have done very well. I have them in both my Larue rifles. I have used, and seen fail, triggers from JP and Jard. For HD, given the predictable ranges and engagements, I don't think these triggers are necessary, and if anything could be a liability. Remember, the US mil does just fine in training and combat with simple factory drop-in units in their M4s and M16s.
 
The only non GI trigger I trust from personal experience are the Geissele 2 stage variants. They are excellent triggers from a user standpoint, quality is top notch, and they are safe and forgiving. There are other triggers that get solid reviews as well but Geissele is pretty much what everyone else is judged by when you deviate from GI triggers.

I can't stress the safe and forgiving part enough. Super short resets are a no go for me in a duty type rifle, or even one I am going to use for matches and range fun. A trigger that will reset I'm such a short distance that it will bump fire is not safe. There is a certain crowd, who gets derogatory nicknames that I won't use (because I've been banned enough lately...), that love these defective triggers because they are close to full auto. Except without the safe positive control that a true full auto trigger provides.

These types can frequently be found on YouTube doing reviews even though they don't have basic mastery of fundamental rifle marksmanship. They can also be identified easily on public ranges and in gun shops all across the land. I shall not disparage them for their shortcomings because I don't wish to be banned, but they are not my favorite people.

My advice for upgrading an already serviceable AR is to pit a Geissele 2 stage trigger in as your first order of business after selecting a good sighting arrangement. Between a good optic, or good irons, and a top notch user friendly trigger the carbine or rifle becomes much much better.

After that my priority is to free float the barrel if not already done from the factory. Then I might change the muzzle device to a brake/compensator or hybrid compensator/flash hider. The A2 flash hider is perfectly serviceable, but there are other good devices that cam enhance recoil control much better that are worth looking at.

I will also encourage all of you to get out to a class or a match and actually run your carbine or rifle. I think we'd all be better off setting the gun up to be no frills functional with a good trigger and good sights with a few other upgrades and then running it! Lube it up, load it up and then go out and shoot, shoot, shoot. Practice and proficiency will make you love your rifle a lot more than some gizmo trigger that will make the gun cycle faster.
 
Those super ninja triggers are great for burning ammo in a gravel pit. For stressful home defense? Nah, no thanks. Too much is at stake to risk accidental discharge or sending out uncontrolled bullets. I dont care what the marketing says, these triggers are less controllable than full auto and full auto offers nothing to home defense but negatives. All my opinion of course.
 
For home defense? I think not, exactly for the reason you state, you have to juggle the trigger and safety if a second shot is undesired.

A pull trigger is legal. A release trigger is legal, and used, by some, for the harmless purpose of blasting clay pigeons. So a selectable pull and/or release trigger falls under the rubric of one shot fired by a single operation of the trigger.

It is a little do-si-do around the NFA and we shall see how long it is before another letter issues. Perhaps you redesigned the trigger by pulling it. Or releasing it, in which case they have us, there! Sort of a Malayan monkey trap.

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Release triggers on shotguns have been used for decades.

Considering the application involved, if you need to shoot to defend yourself, the only "trick" to using them is to stop firing with the trigger in the forward position.

Now, how hard is that?

What we have are some who think change is dangerous and who can't accept that there may be an application for something like this. First, let's go to having full auto at all - its LEGAL. What we are really looking at is the NFA interfering with our 2A right to set the standard in owning our own militia rifles. But since that scares some people who can't accept others acting responsibly - and the vast majority of FULL AUTO owners do so, even more than the average automobile driver - what we get is some who would trade off YOUR freedom for THEIR security.

Second, if the application for rapid firing didn't exist, there would be no full auto. But it does, as some of the more recent public outbursts of violence have shown. Not only during race riots but also those stupid macho contests between bikers and "cagers" where in one event they dragged the driver from his car and beat him.

BTW, I have an AR pistol and I don't think I need to transport it in my daily driver - yet. But who am I to tell you that you shouldn't? Seems like I would be sticking my nose in your business.

Point being, the triggers and application are legal. Now, why would you bother?

First, I have noticed that the anti binary comments involve Giesselle triggers as a standard of what is right and proper for use. I find it ironic as they also offer full auto variants for those with the money. Second, it's about social posturing. "I have one and you don't." "Mine is better than yours." Yes, they are nice and a great option for precision shooting in competition. However, professional grade triggers for COMBAT use are the what we get by the millions in M16's. Nobody has discovered some intense need for a trigger in the hands of soldier defending his life or demonstrated that it will make the enemy "moar dead." What they can and do is leave their issue full auto trigger they use in their miispec 2MOA gun on semi - most of the time. But they do have the option for full auto.

Legally we don't at this time due to the extreme high costs of legal full auto guns. But we do have ingenuity - the same kind that invented holes in blades and assisted opening, the same thinking that got around the racially biased switchblade laws that were passed to disarm inner city gangs. All that was simply an anti-arms campaign by the left to demonstrate proof of concept that it could be done with guns, and here we are listening to the same thinking about binary triggers.

Point being, do you ever need to use one inside your home in defense of your life and family? Maybe not - but the same argument is made about having guns AT ALL. Again, who says you can't? It's legal, and like a laser, or even the A/C on your car, you figure out when to use it when it will be the most help.

Taking into consideration that the situation is one where your home defense has completely failed to keep the intruders away from your property and outside your home - own it, we are talking serious levels of denial and poor decision making - you are now confronted with a multitude of people who are threatening your peace and safety. They are surging thru your front door when you appear at the hallway with your binary equipped - what? Shotgun? There are more of those sold every year than binary triggers in AR's. Are you going to use the feature or not?

Well, make a decision, it takes less than three seconds to run 21 feet and attack you.

I would worry about it after the thugs are laying all over the floor and furniture. We each use what we think best. If you decide to put broken glass and razor wire on your compound wall, would I tell you "oh no don't, the neighbor kids might get cut up climbing over it for their ball?" Well, look at the neighborhoods where it IS done and tell me what the kids are told not to do.

Unfortunately we have a society where they weren't disciplined and now we are discussing whether binary triggers are a good option for home defense. I will tell you they are an option - but the money should first be spent on armoring the exterior of your property to prevent leaving you with the last ditch choice of flipping the safety all the way over to "full auto." Priorities come to mind. $500 for some driveway alarms and security window film would be a better up front expense. Not opening the door when someone rings the bell would be even cheaper - most intrusions start with a "condition white" sense that nothing bad is going to happen.

If your home defense plan is executed and in practice, and you are down to choosing what trigger in your personal weapon you will use for your last stand, then I would recommend a binary trigger. Better high rate firepower than half rate - to give it a different perspective. It is "official issue" and there are times and places it can benefit you. Just consider that it's an expensive embellishment on the firearm for a very small probability of use for your personal defense.
 
I have a couple of AR's with Geissele triggers and they are awesome, they are in my serious hunting and target AR's. I also have RR 2-stage triggers in a couple AR's, they are nice too.
With that said I also put a deposit down on one of the Fostech Echo triggers for the AR I use for pure giggly fun with abusive mag dumps and torture testing. Do I want it to hunt with or home defense? No, this is just for play and just cause I want it.
 
World of difference between demandingly something is outlawed and offering ones opinion on its usefulness. On its face the binary trigger looks like just another gimmick in the gimmick rich environment of the AR 15.
In terms of triggers I'd opt for one that offers enhanced precision rather than enhanced consumption with regards to ammo. Manipulations that require fine motor skills to make safe are also a detriment IMO.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
Having listened to the comments, I will at some point, "as the prices fall".,adopt one of these to an AR pistol with a laser sight for close work. Also having experienced a push- in, invasion, decades ago "which I won't go into", It would sure appear that standing back and pulling the trigger several times would work better than fumbling around with a single stage trigger that has to be pulled every time you need to discharge a round.
Having never thought that this option would become legal, it never entered my thought process as a possible addition to my safety plan.
If nothing else it would scare the bejesus out of a group of idiots.
But now it is clearly something to keep an eye on, as I don't see this lasting too long.
We have legislators saying they want to ban everything on one hand, and on the other, new and unique accessory’s being passed through on the other. The entire process is screwed up more than before.
 
As far as a quality reliable "match type" AR trigger, Geisele is hard to beat. We replaced the triggers in our M110 sniper rifles with these, and they have done very well. I have them in both my Larue rifles. I have used, and seen fail, triggers from JP and Jard. For HD, given the predictable ranges and engagements, I don't think these triggers are necessary, and if anything could be a liability. Remember, the US mil does just fine in training and combat with simple factory drop-in units in their M4s and M16s.
I have SSA's in all of my guns. If you learn the gun and the trigger reset you're not going to need much else.
Short cuts can take you to places your personal experience and skill level aren't ready to go.
 
All you need in an AR trigger for home defense is a safe trigger that fires once with each pull of the trigger. There are so many more important things to worry about.

These days there is a huge choice of AR triggers out there. I think a discussion about how some of those different triggers function, and how dependable they are, would be the better discussion.

For range fun. Really doesn't matter a bit. Buy anything you want. Don't like it, try something different. At home in a self defense situation you are not match shooting, you are not running and gunning in a "game", you are betting your life on your equipment, and all it really needs to be is safe and dependable with a decent feel.
 
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The binary triggers have no effect on safety if you lift your finger after every shot. Who walks around with the trigger depressed anyways? And the 3rd position of the safety selector ain't going to find its self. You can use them normally in SA.

The binary's are interesting for plinking and competition. I see no need for anything other than a $50 mil spec trigger for a defensive AR.
 
I watched a review/test on a binary trigger. The tester had issues with the hammer following the BCG inducing a malfunction, in just about every magazine it would occur if he tried to shoot it "too fast".

Again not sure what the fascination is with defective triggers. I guess if you like performing immediate action drills on the range, or having your rifle not fire when you need it to they're great.
 
I prefer single stage triggers so as a result have Timney 3lb triggers in AR's. If I were to use two stage triggers it would be Geisele.
 
So Walkalong, can we ask that question here or start another post. Which is your favorite AR trigger? Do you need more than one for say HD, and competition? Or is there one that you would suggest for all aspects of shooting the AR rifle?
 
Any thoughts on these for Home Defense scenarios? Or just plain range fun?
I think they'll be subject to an ATF fiat rule change before the election, if you want my honest opinion. Might as well determine ahead of time how you'd handle that possibility, and how much monetary/legal risk you wish to take on pursuing it.
 
The G Super 3 gun trigger is still my favorite.

If you want to pull the trigger on one of these, just got Emails from Brownell's and Primary Arms, both are having "Labor Day Sales" on Geissele triggers.

Far easier to recommend getting one of these than any of the "gimmick" triggers.
 
As others said, the Geissele AR triggers are excellent, I own a couple myself. Another one to consider is the Hyperfire line. They are not cheap but they rock.
 
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