Timber Ridge Safes or RSC ...whatever you want to call it

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I'll second what A1abdj has stated in the previous post. If you are looking at an RSC in a showroom, try this to get an idea of the quality of the door. Close the door & throw the bolts. Then move, if possible, to get a good shine on the door from the showroom lights. Then, pull on the doorhandle hard a couple of times. If it's a sheet metal wrap, not a plate door, you're likely going to see that light shine change as the door warps.

900F

 

[skynyrd1911]

FWIW, I bought a TimberRidge made by Liberty at Gander Mountain because it was the best that I could afford . I'm happy with it for my use. Alot better than nothing. Mine is not glossy. I shopped around and yes there are alot better safes out there, but when you only have $500 or $600 to spend your choices are limited.

 

[Ala Dan]

My Liberty Colonial Series (RSC) serves my purpose, of keeping out my
soon too be 2 year old grand-daughter and the "smash and grab" type
thieves. Its out-of-sight, and well hidden within the home. Its rated
for a 1200 degree fire, for 45 minutes I believe? But, that doesn't
protect the items inside from water damage. With all the extra
security that I have in (and around) my home; I believe I will be
O.K.~! My RSC from Liberty is the Forest Green with gold accents.

 

[bjthejob]

So where's the best place to put a safe? My home has a split finished basement with a crawl space that's too low for a safe. What are my options? Is the garage out of the question? Laundry room is ok but space is limited since we have a second refridgerator in it.

Thanks in advance for your advise.

 

[JeepCJ]

Here's a little information about the Timber Ridge Safes built by Liberty Safe.
The Timber Ridge safe is built just for Gander Mountain, it is a good safe, it is constructed of 12 ga. steel with locking bolts on the front and back of the door, and has a 30 minute fire rating. For the price, this is a very good safe. As mentioned in a previous post it does have just the outer layer of 12 ga. steel on the door with an additional plate of steel that runs across the door to support the locking mechanism. Liberty Safe does offer a full line of safes in all levels of security and fire protection. Liberty Safe offers safes in 12 and 10 gauge, and also 3/16" plate steel, and fire certifications up to 2.5 hours certified by Omega Point Labatories. Liberty Safe also offers safes with full back plates of steel inside the composite door with which spans the full length of the door, with upto 1/4" steel. Liberty Safe also has a great warranty, if your safe is ever damaged due to fire or attempted break-in, Liberty will repair or replace your safe at no cost to the customer, this also includes covering lock smith bills if needed and Liberty will also cover the cost of the freight to send the safe back to the factory and then back to you.

When looking for a good safe, ask about the construction of the safe, ask how many edges are welded, The Liberty Safe's have a uni-body construction where only one of the 4 outside edges are welded, the other edges of the safes are bent to form the body. Another thing to inspect when looking for a good safe is to find out how many layers of fireboard are used. Place your hand in the ceiling of the safe and see how thick the insulation is. If your hand goes right to the top of the safe it probably only has one layer which will give you about 15 minutes or less of fire protection, also inspect the inside door jamb, most companies don't insulate the door jamb at all. Most companies use 1 to 2 layers of fire board, where as Liberty uses up to 4 layers.

Hopefully some of this information will help you when you decide to make your safe purchase.

 

[CB900F]

Jeep;

I gotta say, it sounds like you are affiliated in some way with Liberty. Is that so?

Funny, the Liberty catalog I've got says nothing about 1/4" plate in any of their doors. What catalog do you have? Personally, I've also never seen a Liberty with any plate steel in the door, and I've seen a lot of safes.

Underwriter's will not, repeat not rate any container built with less than 1/4" plate on all 6 sides, as a safe. Even the Liberty Washington or (gasp!) the HARLEY DAVIDSON models don't qualify according to the information published by Liberty that I have.

Comment?

900F

 

[JeepCJ]

The Presidential model has 1/4 inner plate in the door, this information can be found in the 2006 Liberty Safe brochure. As far as the UL rating the safes have is a "Residential Security Rating". The safes are also tested by Omega Point Laboratories for the fire protection.

My original post was never meant to become a heated discussion, I was only replying to the original post, which asked if the Timber Ridge safe was a good safe. Yes.... the safe is a good safe for the price, if you want a better safe, there are other safes that Liberty offers that may suit someone needs a little better.

JeepCJ

 

[CB900F]

Jeep;

You didn't answer my original question. An oversight, or a deliberate pass?

900F

 

[JeepCJ]

CB900F,

Yes, I've been selling the product for several years.

But, like I mentioned in my last post, I'm not wanting to start a heated conversation, just trying to answer the original question of this post.

Also, to answer the last question that BJTHEJOB asked..... several people place their safes in the garage. If you choose to place your there, I would going with a granite textured finish, they don't tend to stand out as much as a gloss color would, and be sure to bolt it to the floor regardless of the weight.

JeepCJ

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Is the garage out of the question? Laundry room is ok but space is limited since we have a second refridgerator in it.

'Fridge into garage, safe in laundry room. Problem solved. Keep the safe in the house whenever possible.

 

[JHG]

"I was wondering if timberidge safes by liberty are made for Gander Mountain"

In reference to the original question ... Timber Ridge is the exact same safe as the Liberty Colonial. Timber Ridge is just the name used for Gander Mountain. They wanted their own line. This is according to a Liberty Safe Rep that I talked to today. My son works there so I purchased one today using the Employee Family 20% discount!

 

[unchrtd635]

timber ridge safes

look at the safe door.... does your safe have a UL listed security container sticker? was it fire tested at a independent laboratory? this is what sets a better than average security container apart from the rest. I have serviced numerous brands of security containers as a locksmith and I can tell you that liberty makes a pretty good product. AMSEC, Liberty, Cannon, and even Granite Security (winchester brand) are all sufficient. If you have tools and time you can get into any safe... the timber ridge brand offers a lot of security for the money. Make sure you place it correctly and bolt it down. Bolting the safe down is one of the most overlooked aspects of the security. these are pretty good safes and will provide adequate protection on your valuables in the event of a fire or burglary.. i have opened,repaired after both.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I simply have to take exception to the post by unchrt635. If you've read the entire thread above, I'm sure you'll understand why, but I'll clarify.

I too am a locksmith, working in an ALOA and SAVTA shop. The second professional standards organization is a subset of the first & stands for Safe And Vault Technicians Assn. My specialty is the sale of safes, and of course, the servicing of them also.

"look at the safe door.... does your safe have a UL listed security container sticker? was it fire tested at a independent laboratory? this is what sets a better than average security container apart from the rest." The U.L. RSC sticker means that, to put it bluntly, the container you're looking at is a sheet metal box, it is not a safe. The RSC designation, in short form, means that the box is proof against forced entry by one person, using common hand tools, for five minutes. Common hand tools, no power tools, no lever length exceeding 18 inches. In other words, a hammer and a screwdriver.

An independent laboratory fire test means nothing. Not A Thing, unless and until you know the standards under which the test was conducted. Until you know that, you can't compare the Omega Labs test information against the Pyro 3000, or U.L. 1 hour test. IMHO, the U.L. one hour test is the only one that counts.

I've said it before, and I'm saying it again. If you buy an RSC, buy the least expensive one you can find that has the features you want, there's no substansive difference in protection among them. RSC label and independent fire testing notwithstanding.

The full criteria of both the U.L. RSC designation and the U.L. 1 hour fire test have been published here on THR previously. If you want the data, it certainly should be available using the search function.

900F

 

[unchrtd635]

sure enough

please note that a person with proper training time and tools can and will get into any safe... that being said most home invasions or burglarys that happen.. the persons commiting this crime will not be trained, have the time, or have little more than burglars tools ie... hammer, screw driver, crow bar. think about it.. you and I understand drill points,relockers, drop points, mounting orientation of the lock body, but the guys that broke into my house did not even touch the Timber ridge safe or get the contents, they were more interested in the hd dvd player and my flat screen.. no problem they are cheaper now then when i bought the first time. just saying anything is better than nothing and the guys looking at Patrot, Wichester, Fort Know, Amsec are no more safe from guys with training that those that buy a Timber ridge.

Also some safe or RSC are tested with one therm in them while laying on their backs... this gives false fire ratings, omega point usually has 7-9 therm s in them and your pretty safe at what they are rated for on the sticker on the door, just like everything this is a guide. dont store cans of gas next to your safe or RSC.

 

[CB900F]

Unchrtd;

Those unfortunate lads who go to "charm school", and are turned out "fully rehabilitated", will go through an RSC like grass through the goose. Check out the "Security On Sale" DVD. If you're in the safe business, you should have no problem obtaining a copy.

A first time crackerhead, yeah, an RSC is probably good enough. If his buddy was just "fully rehabilitated", the two of them are in a Liberty type construction RSC in under two minutes.

900F

 

[unchrtd635]

Texas;

Like a1abdj, I'm in the business. I'm a professional locksmith who specializes in safe sales. I've not heard of Timberline.

Liberty: They get no respect from me. None. They are a triumph of marketing and offer very little real security. Especially when price is factored in.

900F

YOUR WORDS,

just curious what you sell and recommend. i can understand you dont like the liberty line or timber ridge for that matter... fair enough, if you have the means by a better safe... what s at your house or shop??? also do you think the safe offers no real security, how about the house that burns down.. just asking.. throw a little fuel on the fire... i like it!!!

 

[Grayrock]

For all of you "in the business"- I want a secure box to store my firearms and my wife's scrapbooks. I want it to keep out MY kids and the gang bangers that might come in my house. I want it to protect my stuff if I have an average house fire. I want it to hold at least 18 long guns. What is the cheapest "REAL" safe you sell that would fit those criteria? Safe, now, mind you- not an RSC.

 

[Grayrock]

Anyone? Looking to compare costs of reals SAFES to RSC's.

 

[quicktime]

I too would like to know the cost associated with a real safe versus an RSC.

 

[a1abdj]

There are a lot of variables that relate to a cost comparison like this. When you are looking at "real safes" you have a number of construction methods and actual ratings as they pertain to the security of the unit.

However, since the AMSEC and the Liberty have already been mentioned in this thread, I will compare a real AMSEC against Liberty's highest priced safe.

The Liberty Presidential 50. The outside dimensions are 72 x 42 x 27. This safe uses a 3/16" steel plate body with a door construction using a solid 1/4" sheet. It has a 2.5 hour, non UL, fire label and weighs 1,565 pounds. The retail price on this safe is $4,259 (2006 price sheet). This safe carries no burglar rating.

The AMSEC RF6528. The outside dimensions are 72 x 35 x 29. This safe uses a 3.5" composite body (steel and concrete) with a door construction using a 2.75" composite construction. It has a 2 hour, non UL, fire label, and weighs 3,455 pounds The retail price on this safe is $7,590. This safe carries a UL TL-30 burglar rating, which is what you will typically see in your jewelry stores. This rating would allow an approximate insurable rating of $300,000.

In real life, the Liberty sells for around $3,500 and I sell the AMSEC for $5,300. We sell used TL rated safes, large enough for guns, starting in the $2,000 range.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

The comparable Graffunder, size-wise, is the B7240. That's also 72" H X 40" W X 27.5 D, and weighs in at 2100 lbs. It's constructed of A36 high tensile steel throughout. The door is a solid 1/2" steel plate. All the other sides are 1/4". The frame is 3/4". The sides, top, and bottom are backed with 1.5" of a concrete-based proprietary insulation. The concrete is backed with 16 guage steel. The burglary rating is "B". The Graffunder company has told us that it meets the U.L. one hour fire standard, but it is not U.L. stickered. That's 1700 f for one full hour, every minute at 1700.

I have two in my shop now. The fancier model on the floor is being offered at $5400.00.

My personal safe is also a Graffunder.

900F

PS, A1abdj, it's my understanding that the Liberty has a 1/4" thick anti-drill plate in the door, but the door itself is the standard Liberty composit construction. In other words, the plate is only about an 8" square, and that's the only plate steel in the RSC. As I'm not a Liberty dealer, I'm perfectly willing to be corrected if the door is indeed solid plate.

F

 

[a1abdj]

A1abdj, it's my understanding that the Liberty has a 1/4" thick anti-drill plate in the door, but the door itself is the standard Liberty composit construction. In other words, the plate is only about an 8" square, and that's the only plate steel in the RSC

You may be correct. The catalog that I am looking at says:

4 layers of 5/8" fireboard in ceiling and walls, 2 layers of 1/2" and 2 layers 5/8" in door with full 1/4" steel inner door plate.

This could mean a 1/4" sheet of steel covering the full door, or a small piece of steel that is a full 1/4" thick covering the lock. I haven't had the opportunity to look at the inside of many of the Presidentials, as they don't sell many of them here locally. If I ever have the opportunity, I'll let you know what I find.

 

[Grayrock]

In real life... I sell the AMSEC for $5,300

So if I like go down to the local Academy store and buy the biggest RSC they have for $900 and then buy the size that fits inside it for $700- what kind of fire and burglary rating is that? A safe inside a safe for $1600- well Ok- RSC inside an RSC. Seriously- that is doable- what effect would that have on the ratings?

 

[a1abdj]

So if I like go down to the local Academy store and buy the biggest RSC they have for $900 and then buy the size that fits inside it for $700- what kind of fire and burglary rating is that?

Still no rating, although it would double the time needed to break into it (which would still be measured in minutes).

If it were that easy, then banks, jewelry stores, and government buildings would all be using gun safes instead of what they currently use.

It is simply a matter of getting what you pay for. You do not need a $5,000 safe for a $5,000 gun collection. However, if you expect serious protection, you have to spend some money. If you have a $50,000 collection, then spending $5,000 on the proper safe shouldn't be a problem.

 

[piste]

Would love to see a relatively simple and clear explanation of the difference between a "safe" and an RSC and why I should care. TIA.