I'm trying to learn more about safes as well. I don't need the highest state of the art safe (RSC whatever we are going to call it) but I would like to get my moneys worth.
For the last few years, the AMSEC BF series has been my first choice for safes in their price range. For the money, it's hard to beat the AMSEC.
There has been some decent comments about Liberty Safes and of course some bashing as well.
I personally don't have a problem with the products Liberty offers. I do however have a problem with their deceptive marketing practices. I believe that they purposely mislead consumers, and engage in other shady behavior. They are not the only gun safe manufacturer to do this.
I've read other pages that point out "things to look for" when shopping for safes and Liberty is recommended on some of those pages. However, those same pages also recommend a minimum of 10 gauge (as suggested here to) but the Colonial safes are 12 guage. I'm going to go look closer at one today.
Some of these people who make suggestions on what to look for in a gun safe have some good suggestions. Some of them make suggestions that sound good, but yet aren't based on any truth. These suggestions are often based on what these manufacturers claim to be important.
Let me give you a good example. Browning uses boltwork in some of their safes that is resistant to punching. On the surface, this sounds great. On a 12 gauge safe, it doesn't matter, because a thief could tear a hole in the safe with much less effort that it would take to even attempt a punch attack.
Gun safe companies tend to employ a lot of features found on real burglar rated safes. The reality is it adds to the price of the safe, and offers no real additional protection. This would be similar to installing 20 dead bolts on your sliding glass patio door.
Now I realize that given time anything can be opened/cracked etc. Honestly, I believe your everyday thief is going to take what they can and run and probably not even bother the safe. That's what you hope for at least. It's gotta be better than having them locked up in a carrying case or sitting freely in your closet.
This is true.
Liberty seems to offer one heck of a warranty too. They will repair or replace it for free if it is damaged in an attempted (or successful) robbery. They'll even replace it for fire related damage. Additionally, they'll ship the new one to you (free) and take the old one away (free). Of course you need to have the police report filed and all, but I expect that.
Many other companies offer this as well. The reality is that your homeowners or renters policy will pay for the loss. Your safe is no different than your door, carpet, and TV as far as your insurance is concerned. It's all personal property.
Additionally, the Liberty warranty is fully transferable to anyone... even the next people you sell it to - not just "in the family". This is since 2005.
Have you ever seen the movie Tommy Boy with Chris Farley?
Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted, why do they put a guarantee on a box? Hmm, very interesting.
Ted: I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's how I see it. A guy puts a guarantee on the box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside.
Ted: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Ya think if you leave that box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter.
Ted: What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the Guarantee Fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy, but we're not buying it. Next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser and your daughter's knocked up, I seen it a hundred times.
Ted: But why do they put a guarantee on the box then?
Tommy: Because they know all they solda ya was a guaranteed piece of ****. That's all it is. Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for right now, for your sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality item from me.
Ted: Hmm. Okay, I'll buy from you.
Tommy: Well I... What?
Then there's the idea that the Liberty shops around here do all of their own work. If something goes wrong, it's fixed.
This is very rare. Most Liberty dealers are not locksmiths, and are only retail stores. I do the delivery work for the local Liberty dealer because they are not equipped to do so themselves. I also do a lot of warranty work for Liberty. Again, they don't make a bad product, they just don't tell you the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Of course nowdays, who does?
Based on this information, it seems like Liberty really takes care of their customers... not just for the first year, but for life. This is pretty important and if their actions are as big as their words - that goes a long ways.
Based on my personal experience doing warranty work for them, they are a standup company. They do take good care of their customers.
Now, you are quite some distance from me as I am in the Northwest. However, you list a 22 and 30 gun safe by Zykan Diamond Series. The specs are these seem to be solid and the price is definitely reasonable. However, I see no information about your warranty and how it would compare to that of Liberty.
Each manufacturer offers their own warranties on top of the warranties offered by the lock manufacturers.
In the case of the Diamond, the safe has a 1 year warranty. The mechanical locks are typically warrantied by the manufacturer for 1 year, and the electronic locks can vary from 90 days to a year.
Regardless of who makes the safe, the warranty only covers the warrantied items. When your electronic lock fails on your safe 10 years after you buy it, the lifetime warranty does not cover it. That warranty covers the safe...hinges, boltwork, handle, etc. In some cases these companies will cover those items as a good will gesture, but are not required to. Just like cars, wear and tear is not covered. What is typically covered is defects in manufacture.
I also don't see anything about your shipping costs, support or otherwise. Do you have distributors at all throughout the US... do you ship throughout the States?
I can quote shipping based on your zip code (if you want, you can PM me with that information) and offer phone support myself on anything that I sell.
I am very particular with what I sell, because I do not like receiving those angry phone calls. Of all of the Diamonds I have sold (over 1,000 at this point), I have had only one problem serious enough to cause a problem. In that case the manufacturer contracted with a local locksmith to correct it, and all was well.
There are lots of problems safes can have through lack of maintenance, but problems with new safes are very rare.
While reading over this thread, there are lots of claims about RSC's (I call'em safes - most people do) having been poorly designed or worthless etc. There has been reference to these safes being opened in the same amount of time that it would take to smash in a door and so on.
There's a YouTube video recently posted in another thread on this forum which shows a Liberty Centurion being pried open in 1 minute 45 seconds by two guys with pry bars.
I did a search and in fact found a "video" that showed what appeared to be this. However, it was a Chubb safe that was made of 1.1mm sheet metal, hardly 1/10".
Your right. 1/10" is actually 2.5 mm, but in this case, it's doesn't really matter. This would be similar to saying you can rip one sheet of paper, but couldn't rip 3 sheets together.
You probably couldn't open a 12 gauge safe with a can opener, but it can still be opened like a can.
There's another reference to a video showing a guy flexing the door of a Liberty safe. When I think flexing - I think a considerable bend... like what you could do with a school/gym locker. There was other reference to seeing the reflection change based on pulling on the handle. That shows some give, but hardly flexing. If there is in fact a video of someone "flexing" a Liberty door, I've love to see it.
I've never seen a video, but I have in fact flexed a door using my knee up against the middle. Liberty uses wrapped doors. The doors on the lower end units are the same thin metals used on the bodies. They wrap it around a sheet of gypsum to make it look thick. Their highest end safe (sold as a Liberty) only has 1/4" plate in the door. Their National Security safes have thicker doors, but that design was not theirs...the bought out National Security.
We can all say anything we want to say. It doesn't make it true. It may be, but proof (especially when it comes from one competitor slamming another company) really helps.
One of the problems you have in this business is the secrecy kept by those entrusted with others' security. I know of all sorts of ways to defeat safes easily, but I can't always tell people what they are. They have to trust that I'm leading them in the right direction for the right reasons.
Most people in the gun safe business have no experience with safes. I'm a commercial locksmith that only deals with safes. My opinion is based on real life experience. You can ask anybody that I've dealt with in the past...I'm overly honest, even to the detriment of the products I sell.
