Timney Trigger Danger?

[Flynt]

I picked up a couple of Timney triggers on sale for a couple of my Remington 700's. I don't own a trigger gauge, so I just adjusted them to my preference. The directions say don't go any lower than 1.5 lb. I found that when I closed the bolt sharply the guns would dry fire. Same thing when I dropped one gun -- the other has a really thick recoil pad. I cranked down the set screws to increase the trigger weight. Anyway, is this "normal," or did I mess up? Seems like a possible safety issue.

 

[philip brousseau]

a little more sear engagement probably needed. also when you check for safety turn the rifle upside down and operate the safety to see if the pin falls. i've not much experience with timneys but have worked with 700s since the 60's.

 

[rbernie]

It is normal with almost any trigger that when you adjust the sear engagement past safe that they become very unsafe.

 

[Flynt]

Thanks for those of you who responded with constructive observations. As for the obnoxious replies ...

I followed the instructions and only adjusted the trigger weight screws. I didn't touch the sear engagement screws. I'll check in with Timney.

 

[Art Eatman]

Regardless of brand name, any time I tweak with trigger adjustment, I do the "bump test" of a drop to the floor from maybe a foot or two of height to check against an unwanted release.

 

[jmr40]

The Timney trigger is slightly wider than the factory trigger and may touch the sides of the trigger guard. If it does the trigger may not fully move forward after firing. You may have to remove a small bit of metal from the inside of the trigger guard for it to work. This may, or may not be the problem, but check it.

 

[rbernie]

I followed the instructions and only adjusted the trigger weight screws. I didn't touch the sear engagement screws. I'll check in with Timney.

Safe trigger adjustment is commonly a combination of travel and weight. If you make the spring tension too light, what might have otherwise been a just-this-side-of-safe amount of sear engagement can become unsafe because there isn't enough spring pressure holding things together. Conversely, more sear engagement can sometimes allow for less spring pressure.

It's a balance.

 

[Hookeye]

Have bought two Remingtons where prev owners had monkeyed with the triggers to be dangerous. One a supposed hunter of some knowledge.

There's no dang excuse for folks doing this.

I consider it a major sin, to trade in/sell the guns to others and not inform them of the problem.

Got both rifles at great prices and made them safe very easily.

But what if somebody else had bought them? One guy did inform the shop. They didn't want to mess with it, so I bought it. The other rifle had been traded in and nobody knew it was jacked up.

Passing along an unsafe gun.........I don't see how anybody could do such a horrible thing.

 

[Hookeye]

I've never had a problem with a Walker trigger.
The factory shorty spring is an "all or nothing" IMHO.
I change them out.

You can only set a trigger as light as it safely will go. Whatever that is, it is.

Could be 1.5#, might be more or less........but you don't go for a fixed value right off the bat and live with whatever the results (like having to close the bolt super careful so it won't trip).

That is the mentality that gets folks into trouble. And how the one guy sold me his Model 7.

I seriously doubt such folks are only unsafe when adjusting triggers.

 

[Corn-Picker]

I don't understand all the hate. Flynt recognized that the situation was unsafe and is trying to fix it. He's not trying to pass the problem off on anyone else. If we are going to chastise anyone who brings up such a subject, that's going to discourage others from coming forward, and that's not very safety conscious of us.

 

[SSN Vet]

The 700 and Timney fan boys need to lighten up...

Although the OP has been edited prior to my reading it, at no place to I see this guy blaming anybody or crying wolf.

His Timney install isn't going as planned. So rather than demonize or ridicule the guy, try helping him out.

That would be THR

 

[ljnowell]

The 700 and Timney fan boys need to lighten up...



Although the OP has been edited prior to my reading it, at no place to I see this guy blaming anybody or crying wolf.



His Timney install isn't going as planned. So rather than demonize or ridicule the guy, try helping him out.



That would be THR

Very truthful. The fact is that the high road becomes less and less high road every year. It's sad to see it happening in front of me.

 

[sage5907]

jmr40 is right on when he mentioned that the Timney triggers are wider than the production triggers and they could be rubbing on the trigger guard. I found this to be true on both their Winchester 70 and FN Mauser Timney triggers and I did have to remove some metal on the trigger guards to get the triggers to work correctly. A rubbing trigger makes for a very inconsistent trigger pull and if the trigger is rubbing it may not be moving forward to reset itself. The light trigger pull would contribute to that problem. I will be interested to see if a rubbing trigger is Flynt's problem.

 

[Llama Bob]

I don't understand all the hate. Flynt recognized that the situation was unsafe and is trying to fix it. He's not trying to pass the problem off on anyone else. If we are going to chastise anyone who brings up such a subject, that's going to discourage others from coming forward, and that's not very safety conscious of us.

I'm with you. The original post is perfectly reasonable, and the people getting mad at him are completely out of line.

 

[Kendal Black]

Personal note, not offered as anything else. I do not try to adjust triggers as light as they will go. A good field trigger is crisp, not necessary for it to be super light.

Trigger pull spec on the USMC's awesome M40 rifles is 3-5 pounds. When they had problems it was because of unauthorized monkeying to make them hair triggers. Word was passed, the tinkering stopped and so did the trouble. Do I need a better trigger than those guys? Not hardly!

For me, a 5-pound high quality trigger is fine--but then I shoot DA revolvers a lot, so any decent rifle trigger thrills me.

 

[spitballer]

Flynt recognized that the situation was unsafe and is trying to fix it. He's not trying to...

...Agreed. Touchy triggers are a serious issue: I bought a 1/4 lb one that I use for a range-only rifle but I've never realistically expected it to behave as well as a normal trigger assembly. If I put it on safe it'll fire when I flip off the safety! I'm still quite happy with this trigger at the range but I'd never take it to the field, it's simply too dangerous. Furthermore I wouldn't want to be around anyone else who's using such a trigger in the field, either! Good for you Flynt

 

[natman]

I picked up a couple of Timney triggers on sale for a couple of my Remington 700's. I don't own a trigger gauge, so I just adjusted them to my preference. The directions say don't go any lower than 1.5 lb. I found that when I closed the bolt sharply the guns would dry fire. Same thing when I dropped one gun -- the other has a really thick recoil pad. I cranked down the set screws to increase the trigger weight. Anyway, is this "normal," or did I mess up? Seems like a possible safety issue.

It's a definite safety issue and you messed up. Trying to adjust triggers without a trigger gauge is asking for trouble. Trying to adjust triggers without knowing what you are doing (as opposed to thinking you know what you're doing) is asking for trouble. You need to increase sear engagement for now, then get a trigger gauge and some instructions before you put any ammo in those guns.

 

[MistWolf]

I've adjusted several triggers without owning or using a trigger gauge and have never had trouble with any of them being unsafe. A trigger gauge will tell you what the pull weight is, but it won't tell you if the trigger is safe.

The Timney trigger I've used adjusts for pull weight, creep (sear engagement) and over travel. Understanding how those three adjustments affect the trigger pull is the first step to adjusting a Timney or a Walker trigger for a crisp, clean and above all, SAFE trigger pull

 

[Kendal Black]

You can evaluate a trigger pull using objects of known weight. (Greater than this weight, less than that weight.)

 

[natman]

I've adjusted several triggers without owning or using a trigger gauge and have never had trouble with any of them being unsafe. A trigger gauge will tell you what the pull weight is, but it won't tell you if the trigger is safe.

Sure it's possible to get it right without a pull gauge, but it's a lot easier to get it wrong. A pull gauge doesn't guarantee your trigger will be safe, it just greatly increases the odds. Use the right tools.

The Timney trigger I've used adjusts for pull weight, creep (sear engagement) and over travel. Understanding how those three adjustments affect the trigger pull is the first step to adjusting a [trigger] for a crisp, clean and above all, SAFE trigger pull

We're in complete agreement on this. Trigger adjustment is not something you should try to learn by trial and error.

 

[spitballer]

Sure it's possible to get it right without a pull gauge, but it's a lot easier to get it wrong. A pull gauge doesn't guarantee your trigger will be safe, it just greatly increases the odds. Use the right tools...

...yes, in retrospect I should have read the original post better. Adjustment should not be approached haphazardly, for sure: trigger pull should be within the manufacturer's specified range as measured by a gauge. Many gun shops can check this adjustment for patrons (mine does), but it's also incumbent upon the shooter to keep the assembly clean and lubricated so the settings will stick! I wouldn't even bother to second-guess the factory settings for a true range-only trigger, just leave it alone. Sorry if I mislead anyone but I still think Flynt deserves credit for checking with THR

 

[natman]

I still think Flynt deserves credit for checking with THR

Agreed. Diving into trigger adjustment without tools or instructions was a mistake, but he did the right thing in testing before shooting and asking before proceeding further.

 

[taliv]

Sure it's possible to get it right without a pull gauge, but it's a lot easier to get it wrong. A pull gauge doesn't guarantee your trigger will be safe, it just greatly increases the odds. Use the right tools.

for clarity, there are lots of different designs for triggers and two different ways things can be unsafe. first, if the weight is so light that the trigger lever can be accidentally pushed too easily. second, if the sear lacks sufficient engagement and can be released without moving the trigger lever.

i can't speak to the timney but in some, adjusting the weight also affects sear engagement, and so the screws must be adjusted in a particular order or iteratively.

that's one of the reasons i like the x-treme (cg jackson) trigger. it has two sear engagement screws that you set, and then the weight can be adjusted without changing the sear engagement.

generally speaking, sear engagement is set without the use of a trigger pull gauge. so the weighing the trigger is only to ensure the lever requires a reasonably intentional amount of force to move it.

other benchrest style triggers can be set at quite a low weight without compromising sear engagement, and are perfectly safe in that environment. (i can't recall ever hearing about anyone getting shot at a benchrest match)

 

[Nature Boy]

Trigger adjustment is not something you should try to learn by trial and error.

I'll disagree with that. Trial and error is EXACTLY how I adjusted the Timney I recently installed in my FN SPR. I researched first. Followed installation instructions. Did a tiny bit of dremeling on the stock for clearance, then function checked.

I adjusted the weight to what felt right to my calibrated pull force gauge (i.e., my "booger hook"). I then worked the action vigorously and noted that I didn't have enough sear engagement (same as the OP). I added more weight and repeated. Once satisfied that I had the lightest and safest engagement, I reassembled action to stock and whacked the butt with a dead blow hammer, banged the butt end on the ground several times, worked the action and safety vigorously and encountered no inadvertent firing.

Now, I call that "trial and error" and I see nothing irresponsible about it.

 

[natman]

I'll disagree with that. Trial and error is EXACTLY how I adjusted the Timney I recently installed in my FN SPR. I researched first. Followed installation instructions. Did a tiny bit of dremeling on the stock for clearance, then function checked.

If you had installation instructions and followed them, then you're on the right track.

We using different definitions for "trial and error". Perhaps it would have been clearer if I'd said "going in blind".