Tiny Estonia Prepares For Insurgent War With Swedish Rifles, Plus Swedish Arms History

[Speedo66]

Interesting article about Russia's tiny neighbor Estonia's thoughts on possible war against the bear. Fears that although they are NATO members, the US and others will back off if it's only them involved. They've seen the Ukraine invasion and how no help was given.

They are shown training for insurgency as they have no pretense of fighting Russia toe to toe. Here's the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/w...-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well

Turns out they use the previous generation Swedish AK-4, in NATO 7.62x51 (basically .308). Seeing that I knew nothing about Swedish rifles past their wonderful Mauser models, I decided to do a little research on modern Swedish weapons. Turns out their current rifle is the AK-5, made by FN in the current NATO caliber, 5.56x45 (basically .223). Although Sweden is not a member of NATO, they lean more to the west in political thought. Like every small country in the region, I'm sure they realize Russia could have their way with them any time it wanted to if no help was given.

Here's an interesting article on the development of the modern Swedish battle rifle: http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/ak/ak4_5/ak5_history.htm

 

[Acera]

Something similar to that would be a great idea here, however I think it would cause a huge s-storm.


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[Destructo6]

The Swedish AK4 is the Swedish flavor of the HK G3. The forward assist depression in the portion of the bolt carrier exposed by the ejection port is one of the Swedish differences. This depression is not uncommon with the HK33, but not common on the G3.

The AK5 is the Swedish FN FNC.

Both fine weapons.

 

[Open Carry Jenkins]

Something similar to that would be a great idea here, however I think it would cause a huge s-storm.


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It already has: think about the various non-aggressive "militia" movements and how they're vilified in the press.

I think there are a lot of lessons for American shooters to learn from what's going on in the Baltic states. I just hope we never need them. The bit at the end of the article in which a Estonian soldier talks about his service overseas and the effectiveness of IEDs and other asymmetrical tactics is chilling.

 

[Malamute]

NY Times piece has paywall.

I just recently saw a news item about the militia in Poland, they were being encouraged, realizing that their official military wasn't sufficient in case Russia decided it wanted to come back and run the show again.

This came up in a search, its older, but similar.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-poland-militias-idUSKBN0MG24I20150320


ETA: found it http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/27/europe/poland-militias-russia-tension/

Interesting that some were carrying M4/M16 type weapons.

A public service type announcement and info pamphlet from Lithuania on what to do if Russia invades came up as a similar story to the Polish piece.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/28/europe/lithuania-war-manual/?iid=ob_article_footer_expansion

 

[Acera]

NY Times piece has paywall.

Not for me, loaded just fine and I am not a member or pay for their content.


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[Malamute]

Not for me, loaded just fine and I am not a member or pay for their content.


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May be how I have most cookies shut off that it isn't allowing me in. I got a sign in page when I went there though.

 

[RX-79G]

It already has: think about the various non-aggressive "militia" movements and how they're vilified in the press

Probably because we don't share a border with an aggressor state, and some of the militias have "white power" connections.

The games Estonians are playing would be great for US disaster preparedness.

The G3/AK4 would be an excellent rifle for an insurgent army - tough, doesn't break parts, super reliable and very accurate to take advantage of 7.62's range.

 

[Malamute]

I agree with the idea being good for the US, I don't know if any particular gun would be good or bad, in and of itself, (especuially some with internet or gun magazine legends that ascribe near mythical reliability status to. Id say anything that's easy to use, generally reliable, parts are available or easy to improvise, and ammo is available for.

I was somewhat surprised to see some of the Polish militia guys using M4 type guns. I would have figured that AKs would be about all that's easily available, and M4 types would be hard to get, as would ammo, but apparently not. Also surprised they are allowed to own many military type guns. Good for them.

 

[primalmu]

I was somewhat surprised to see some of the Polish militia guys using M4 type guns. I would have figured that AKs would be about all that's easily available, and M4 types would be hard to get, as would ammo, but apparently not. Also surprised they are allowed to own many military type guns. Good for them.

Poland is a NATO nation, meaning 5.56 should be plentiful.

 

[Malamute]

Right.

Somehow makes perfect sense,....

 

[Tirod]

We have over 25 milllion prior service men and women, 10% or 2.5 million who were combat arms and trained in a lot more than range marksmanship. At one time there was one in ten who had served in the military, now it's one in one hundred.

We have at worst over 300 million weapons owned by 55 million Americans. The CMP sells Garands, but only because of a current bias against full auto ownership. Nonetheless we can and do buy full auto guns, it requires some paperwork, and a $200 tax stamp.

The National Guard may be financed and trained by the federal government, but it does answer to the State governor. Not every state would necessarily go along with some federal policies - MO state law at one time expressed that the State would stand against Federal law enforcement attempting to deprive citizens by unconstitutional acts.

Not to forget that 95% of the Sheriffs in NY are on the record as defying any enforcement of the SAFE act. Much less the citizens of NY, CA, and other states simply ignoring any requirement to register or turn in their firearms.

We already have a lot of ground work laid to protect us and resistance is already going on. All you have to do is look.

 

[RX-79G]

Tirod, what does your post have to do with a little Baltic country's civil defense? Are you suggesting the US is close to an internal rebellion, and that the "war" will be between active duty military - that will obey any unlawful order - and veterans who will decide to side against them?

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Interesting they have added IED training for their militia. In Afghanistan and the first Kosovo war Russians were very vulnerable to IEDs. They learned a lot and are in a much better situation now as demonstrated in the second Kosovo war. However, IEDs are still a big force multiplier for an insurgency.

501,000 lamp posts . . .

Mike

PS. Totally off topic but Estonia has some of the most gorgeous women anywhere in the world!

 

[agtman]

The games Estonians are playing would be great for US disaster preparedness.

I agree, ... but you do understand that the "ordinary joe" in the U.S. - being anywhere from sadly overweight to near-obese - joining the local militia for "play & prep" games against an invasion scenario would likely keel over from a cardiac infarction after the first morning's drills?

On the other hand, maybe that's actually somehow a positive thing?

 

[Speedo66]

It's not just civilians with a weight problem.......

http://www.businessinsider.com/fat-...litary-to-totally-redesign-combat-gear-2012-9

Ex-Army myself, not looking to denigrate any branch, strictly for informational purposes.....and maybe a little humor.....
http://fareastcynic.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/army-motivational-poster.jpg

 

[Phaedrus/69]

They're probably wise to prepare. If Russia invades the US and NATO may well leave them swinging in the breeze. A certain presidential candidate that rhymes with Drumph has already indicated that he wouldn't honor our treaty commitments of our NATO allies (or would extort money out of them for the service- like most things he says it's hard to make heads or tails of it). Russia would likely bank on the the fact that the world doesn't want to risk war over a small country that's not a big economic trading partner.

 

[lemaymiami]

Since this is a firearms site the info will be of great interest...

As far as the "bear" is concerned - nothing Estonia is doing will slow them down for one moment if they decide to re-take Estonia -or any other former soviet bloc country..... Their only calculation will be how difficult it would be and what if any consequences will result.... At present they face little if any consequences from the rest of the world -just ask the Ukrainians... That may change in the near future but that's a decision that will be difficult to come to for the west. Wish I were wrong about this , by the way....

 

[dekibg]

So WW2 Nazi-supporters and Jew-killers are now nervous about possible Russian invasion ? OK...
Arizona Mike, I am not aware, but how Russia was ever involved in fighting in Kosovo wars ( part of Yugoslavia/Serbia) ?

 

[Art Eatman]

Left guns; went to politics. Uh-uh.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I want to be Estonian.