tips on weak-hand-only shooting?

[9mmepiphany]

You're going to have to shoot it off a rest before you even think about moving the sight.

My rule of thumb is that you can't adjust you sight a smaller increment than the group you are able to hold.

Can we see a picture of the grip you are using?
Also, how much finger you are using on the trigger?

 

[1KPerDay]

Pistol is unloaded... click for larger

 

[9mmepiphany]

Those pictures are very helpful and really show your grip from every angle.

You're playing with the amount of finger on the trigger, because you think you are pushing or pulling sideways on the trigger...you might be, but...

Try flaring your trigger finger away from the frame at the first (the one closest to the palm) joint. When I look down at my trigger finger from above, like in pictures #6 and #10, I can clearly see the middle joint of my middle finger. You'll have to adjust how far you flare it out depending on your trigger length and ability to still reach the trigger.

What's happening is that as you contract the muscles in your trigger finger to press the trigger, they are applying pressure to the frame.

It also appears that you are applying pressure with your middle and ring finger tips...quite a bit, judging from the color around the nail beds. Your fingers should be pulling the front of the frame straight back into the pocket of your hand. It is only when you are using your left hand as a support hand in a two-handed grip that the tips apply lateral pressure. I tend to due this too when shooting under pressure and have to remember relax the tips

 

[murf]

1k,

are you having problems keeping your sights aligned when you dry-fire weak handed? or does this problem only occur during live fire?

murf

 

[1KPerDay]

Those pictures are very helpful and really show your grip from every angle.

You're playing with the amount of finger on the trigger, because you think you are pushing or pulling sideways on the trigger...you might be, but...

Try flaring your trigger finger away from the frame at the first (the one closest to the palm) joint. When I look down at my trigger finger from above, like in pictures #6 and #10, I can clearly see the middle joint of my middle finger. You'll have to adjust how far you flare it out depending on your trigger length and ability to still reach the trigger.

What's happening is that as you contract the muscles in your trigger finger to press the trigger, they are applying pressure to the frame.

It also appears that you are applying pressure with your middle and ring finger tips...quite a bit, judging from the color around the nail beds. Your fingers should be pulling the front of the frame straight back into the pocket of your hand. It is only when you are using your left hand as a support hand in a two-handed grip that the tips apply lateral pressure. I tend to due this too when shooting under pressure and have to remember relax the tips

Thanks for the tips. I realize it's difficult to diagnose things via the internet, but you've given me things to consider and work on.

murf, I note that my grip feels much weaker, my control of the pistol is noticeably less, and I'm probably moving the gun around more than I should when breaking the trigger. I dry fire and I don't notice it happening but as noted above, a dummy round would be more telling. Dry fire is helpful but your brain still knows it's an empty gun. I might be flinching more than I think.

 

[chris in va]

Cant the gun over about 30 degrees. Not 'gangsta' angle, but just enough to give a more natural feel. It really does help.

 

[1KPerDay]

I've been doing that during matches and it seems to help... at least my grip feels stronger.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Thanks for the tips. I realize it's difficult to diagnose things via the internet, but you've given me things to consider and work on.

I try to explain what effect is being caused by the technique you are applying, to help you understand how to self correct.

It isn't an exact science, as hand size and musculature play a part in what is possible, but it sometimes helps when you understand what you are trying to avoid

murf, I note that my grip feels much weaker, my control of the pistol is noticeably less, and I'm probably moving the gun around more than I should when breaking the trigger.
...Dry fire is helpful but your brain still knows it's an empty gun. I might be flinching more than I think.

The brain does know and that is why traditional dryfire isn't always the correct answer. What dryfire is best at is programing the subconscious to recognize visual cues to trigger action

If you are flinching, it is due to anticipation...especially given the first part of the above quote...you are trying to make the shot go off when you see the sights aligned on the target. What you need to do is stay in the process of seeing the sights and pressing the trigger correctly.

I've been doing that during matches and it seems to help... at least my grip feels stronger.

There is not precise amount of cant for everyone when shooting one-handed. You should be trying to work with your body as opposed to trying to make it do something.

Try this.
1. Rise your arm straight out in front of you (about shoulder level) with the palm facing downward.
2. Relax you hand and let the finger droop
3. Start curling fingers into a loose fist
4. You'll see the the wrist rotates as the finger close
5. The cant of the gun is determined by how far the wrist rotates when squeezing the gun

 

[Trisha]

You've covered everything I learned the hard way when I went through shoulder surgery:
I wholeheartedly concur with listening and learning what your body does naturally and strengthening that rather than trying to force is into an unnatural stance and demand stable muscle memory.

Slowly and meticulously running isolated range of motion stabilization exercises with a baby weight (say 5lbs - no, seriously) for half an hour 3 times a week did wonders for awakening the small muscles that support the large musculo-skeletal groups.

I would add a suggestion that I haven't had the means to try yet: maybe lasergrips would help? Then video a string at the range?

I made some inroads using 38spl loads in my .357 as a DA trigger drill to watch how I shot through the entire sequence.

 

[W.E.G.]

Get an Airsoft version of your carry gun, and practice close-range drills at home.



I still always shoot a little low-left, even with the Airsoft (which has NON-adjustable sights)



Cheaper than 9mm for sure.
...and didn't have to burn any gas or "wait for a lane."

 

[1KPerDay]

Next and possibly final attempt... I'm getting frustrated.

All shots at 21 feet. First I make sure the pistol is zeroed, 8 shots from a semi-steady rest (top target):



For all groups I try focusing on front-back pressure from the grip, no lateral pressure, good trigger position, etc.

First group, pistol canted 10-15 degrees:



Then I try holding the pistol vertical, and facing the target more directly:


Then I try canting it 45 degrees (note the very low hit on paper and one off the paper:banghead:



I gather myself for one final attempt, focus on fundamentals, etc.



I wonder if maybe it's the full-power .45 ACP causing me to suck, so I switch to the P226 9mm.



Then I decide maybe I've chosen the wrong hobby.

I shoot some .38 to work up some loads, then I try one more magazine of my .45 LRN loads at the steel plates, and hit 6 out of 8.



I think the fundamental issue is that my weak hand/arm actually is weak. the gun is moving all over the place. I can't get my sights to stay on the target long enough to get a "surprise" break. So I must be jumping on the trigger to try to make the shot.

 

[Rexster]

If your "weak" hand is weaker, make it stronger!

If your less-skillful hand is just less-skillful, start doing more with it than just shooting. Can you eat with chopsticks, using your strong hand? Good! Now, concentrate on using chopsticks in your-less-skillful hand. It does not have to be food; try picking up all kinds of things.

Eating liquid food with a spoon is another everyday task that can be tried with one's less-skillful hand. Feedback is immediate, as the broth portion of one's soup jumps ship.

Another thing to help develop ambidexterity skills is to play a musical instrument that requires one to use both hands to play.

Do you always open doors with your dominant hand? Well, start using your non-dominant hand.

The list goes on. The objective is to become more ambidextrous, overall, so that shooting with one's less-skillful hand is not such a daunting task, as shooting will just be one of many things done with the less-dominant hand.

 

[Blackstone]

Great information in here as usual. I was at a competition where I had to shoot weak handed under time pressure, and all my shots were down and to the right. Definitely flinching there. I plan starting from the basics by shooting air pistol left handed to build that muscle memory in.

 

[Hk Dan]

David, thats not true if you mind your sights. How far away were you? Those arent bad groups, so at least you're consistant!

 

[murf]

1k,

stance: are your feet squared to the target? right foot forward? left foot forward? at what angle to the target if not square?

is your weak hand your left one?

are you dry-firing the weapon to strengthen your grip and steady your aim?

are you satisfied with your one-handed strong hand shooting performance? how does your weak hand performance compare?

don't get frustrated. shooting weak-hand takes a lot of time and effort, if done correctly.

murf

 

[BCRider]

1K, those are actually not shabby at all. Elevation is mostly good but you're pushing the gun slightly to the right. Just re-check your grip to ensure the gun is centered in the web of your hand and perhaps double check that your trigger finger is mostly pulling back by hinging at the first joint out and not mostly at the knuckle. Try some dry firing with both hands to compare how your finger is pulling on the trigger.

For stance in one handed you want to SLIGHTLY cant your body by shifting the offhand foot back a touch. It also helps the steadiness of the gun to clench the offhand into a fist and press it firmly into the center of your chest. Something about forcing the muscles of the one arm to aid the other arm in achieving a higher level of steadiness.

As you found a SLIGHT cant of the gun is actually usefull. But the angle can become too much very quickly.

 

[1KPerDay]

Yeah, I've found the body cant natural... and facing the target directly to be awkward. I tried the fist but not pressing it firmly into the chest... I'll try that.

I shot my Ruger 22/45 lefty again and hit 10/10 plates for several mags so it must be either the weight and/or the recoil of the .45 that's messing me up. I'll work on it.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I shot my Ruger 22/45 lefty again and hit 10/10 plates for several mags so it must be either the weight and/or the recoil of the .45 that's messing me up. I'll work on it.

It ids very hard to give a definitive suggestion without see how you shoot, but it has been my experience that weight and recoil between two those guns doesn't make that much of a difference.

I'm pretty confident that is is either a matter of grip or trigger management

 

[1KPerDay]

It feels to me like the .45 moves around a lot more. And it does weigh more than the polymer-framed .22. But you may be right.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Are you saying it moves around before or after you break the shot?

If it is before, you need to tweak your grip.

If it is after, it doesn't affect the shot, only the speed of the next shot...that is a grip/arm geometry issue.

 

[1KPerDay]

Before.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Then we're going to need to see a picture of your grip...better yet, would be a video of you shooting.

My fist thought is that you are gripping too tightly

 

[David E]

This is why I don't participate in these threads past the initial suggestion or two.

The OP doesn't know what he's doing wrong, asks how to fix it, gets valid suggestions, attempts to apply them.....but still doesn't know what he's doing wrong. (or right, for that matter)

Any number of us could point out his problem immediately.... if we could see him shoot in person.

The OP should take a lesson from a skilled instructor. The savings in ammo costs and frustration will easily pay for the lesson.

 

[45_auto]

I used to have weak hand accuracy issues. Best thing I ever did to improve my weak hand shooting was to start using my mouse with my weak hand (I'm on a computer at work all day). I am now an ambidextrious mouser, and my weak hand only shooting is pretty much indistinguishable from my strong hand only. I figured that if I couldn't control the mouse weak-hand, how could I expect to control a pistol.

 

[1KPerDay]

This is why I don't participate in these threads past the initial suggestion or two.

The OP doesn't know what he's doing wrong, asks how to fix it, gets valid suggestions, attempts to apply them.....but still doesn't know what he's doing wrong. (or right, for that matter)

Any number of us could point out his problem immediately.... if we could see him shoot in person.

I respectfully asked for tips, and got some good ones. I will continue working on it. If you don't wish to participate in the thread, why post about how you don't want to participate? I'm sure you're an expert but I'm not at that level yet, so forgive me if I ask for advice from more knowledgeable people.