tired of getting guns pointed at me in gunshops

[Onmilo]

I work the other side of the counter and i know what you are saying.
I have had more guns unintentionally pointed in my direction than I care to count.
I use my forefinger to physically push the weapons away from my midsection, and have had people get angry and walk out because I have done this.
I don't care, if you don't have the good common sense to keep from muzzle sweeping everybody in the store I don't particularly want to sell you a firearm until you have had some better training.

 

[Double Maduro]

larry starling,

<quote>if your this paronoid about firearms maybe you shouldnt be around them or go to places were there is a chance someone might point a empty gun in your general direction</quote> emphasis added.

All together now,

Rule #1. All guns are always loaded, and should be treated that way.
Rule #2. Never point a gun at anything you don't wish to destroy.
Rule #3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
Rule #4. Be sure of your target and all beyond it.

Now how many of the rules get broken when someone covers you with a weapon, even unintentionaly? To my way of thinking at least 3, if they have their finger on the trigger, then all 4.

How many mistakes does it take to make you dead?

That question falls under the heading of retorical sarcasm, but for those of you who need an answer, "1".

The only excuse for letting someone point a gun at you is if you are the guest of honor at a firing squad.

People should be made aware of their mistakes and the rules, calmly and politely at first and then with more emphasis if they do it again. If they still don't get the message it is time for either you or them to leave.


Thank you all for joining me in the chorus of the 4 rules, evidently not everyone knows them yet.

DM

 

[Tory]

Terminally (?) obtuse

"But I understand that if I go to a gun store I might have a firearm unattentionally [sic] pointed in my direction. Am I going to freak out heck no. Im a mature adult and handle myself as such. Having taught marksmanship in the military and at a local range im very confident in my own abilitys [sic] to properly handle a firearm"

How very wonderful for you. I trust for your students' sake that your firearms skills exceed those of your spelling and punctuation.

Regardless, you miss the point entirely.

All the posts above deal with what is, at best, exceedingly negligent actions; many are INTENTIONAL and repeated. ALL ARE DANGEROUS.

If, as you claim, you "taught marksmanship in the military and at a local range," you would have seen the consequences of such stupidity in the form of Negligent Discharges. That you still pontificate about your alleged skills while ridiculing those who correctly challenge dangerous behavior indicates that there is less substance to your claims than you would have us believe.

Stupidity and carelessness have a price. Better you pay it than an innocent bystander.

 

[Double Maduro]

Larry,

Having taught marksmanship in the military and at a local range im very confident in my own abilitys to properly handle a firearm.

You see, that's the problem, we aren't talking about our ability to handle a gun, none of us, after all, has ever broken one of the four rules, Yeah right.

We are worried about the idiot who is looking at guns and wants to see if the bullets his uncle Fred left him will fit in the chamber, so he drops one in when the clerk isn't looking. Then either he, pulls the trigger or the clerk doesn't check when putting it away and when handing it to the next person and they pull the trigger.

How do you think people get shot at gun shows where they don't allow live ammo?

I don't walk around paranoid, I do feel it is necessary to let people know when they are endangering my life. I consider anyone pointing a gun, even an "empty gun" at me, as endangering my life.

I was also an instructor in the military. I can't believe you would have let any of your 'cruits get away with this.

DM

 

[larry starling]

Not be insulting but I'll play your game.

Rule#1 nothing we do is worth getting hurt or hurting others.

Rule #2 a professional keeps himself and others out of trouble.

Rule #3 All accidents and injurys can and should be prevented.

Rule #4 Safety can be managed

Rule #5 You and I can make a diffrence.

good rules also.

 

[iiibdsiil]

When I bought my 500A, the guy handed it to me, I turned towards the wall and put it to my shoulder, the guy looks at me like I was crazy for not aiming it in his general direction.

 

[larry starling]

How very wonderful for you. I trust for your students' sake that your firearms skills exceed those of your spelling and punctuation.

Ok Tory you got me on that one. I guess I got in a hurry typing and made some mistakes. I guess you never make any?

 

[bad LT]

I got swept by a employee at a local store who said that he was "training to become a cop." Guess he needed more training.

 

[Double Maduro]

Larry,

I haven't tried to insult you, if I did I am sorry. Believe me if I tried I could do a much better job of it.

Rule#1 nothing we do is worth getting hurt or hurting others.

I disagree.

I believe that there are times when it is best to hurt others. Although I do agree that it is generally not a good idea to get hurt yourself.

Rule #2 a professional keeps himself and others out of trouble

It would seem that you agree that we should educate people when we see them getting into trouble.

Rule #3 All accidents and injurys can and should be prevented.

The easiest way to prevent accidents is to educate people in the proper use of the tools they have in their hands.

Rule #4 Safety can be managed

I agree, but the only way it can be managed is through education.

Rule #5 You and I can make a diffrence.

Again, I agree, but only if we say something to let the person pointing a gun at us know that that is not a good thing to do.

I prefer telling them that they are doing a bad thing, and teaching them what they are doing wrong, and usually this works. But I sometimes wonder if some wouldn't learn faster if they were taught the 4 rules while looking down the barrel of a .45.

Probably not. Even though motivated, they would probably have a hard time concentrating and then there would be the terrible smell.


DM

 

[Farnham]

I'm going to have to agree with Mr. Starling on this one.

I "LOVINGLY" placed him in a choke hold and told him that I have been shot twice and do not wish to make it a third time and if he were to point that weapon at me again I would remove his testicles, by hand.

I don't go around intentionally pointing firearms at people, but if you were to attempt this on me (or any of a number of the people on this board, I suspect), you would most definitely have gotten your third gunshot wound. And most likely your fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, and so on, until the threat is stopped.

Some nimrod at the counter waving a gun in your direction is enough to make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up, but jumping someone in a gunstore is just asking to get your ticket well and thoroughly punched.

In answer to the question, I've noticed getting swept more often lately just from spending more time at the gunshops and shows...stupid C&R bug...

S/F

Farnham

 

[fespo276]

I know I am a newbe....but......Larry...

First:
The apostrophy in the word "students'" is actually correct. The plural possessive of "students" (more than one) is, in fact, "students'," not "student's."

Second:
Rule #1: "All guns are always loaded."
Rule #2: "See Rule #1."
Rule #3: "There aint none."

 

[Librarian]

It isn't just gun shops.

Went to see a local production of "The Night of the Hunter"; one scene involves two women characters in succession handling a rifle: aiming at a male character, handing the weapon from one to the other. The gun handling on stage was terrifying - some lever-action piece sweeping the audience stage right - I wanted to dive behind the seats and shout "Hey! Lady!".

I emailed the director immediately after I got home, with a change in blocking that would at least keep the weapon pointed at only the actors. Didn't go back to see if they fixed it.

BTW, the word is 'apostrophe' - no letter "y" in it.

 

[larry starling]

D**M, My 5th grade teacher was right. One day I might need what she was trying to teach me.......LOL enjoyed this thread

 

[cowboybobb693]

Farnham and the rest of you that have me in your crosshairs.
You don't know me nor do I know you, you have no idea about my level of training, military service etc.... but, if you were to read my ENTIRE post you will notice that I asked him THREE times not to point the weapon at me. Now if you or any other member of this board were to continue to point a weapon at somone after being warned this many times I'm sure that you should/ would take remedial training in weapons handling.
Your statement that I would be ventilated numerous times is really an uneeded comment.
So in summation gents please read my ENTIRE post PRIOR to jumping in my ass. The response to the perceived threat was appropriate, I'm not paranoid nor do I fear weapons or gunstores/ gunshows or any other place where weapons are handled/ sold/ traded.

 

[Waitone]

Once is a mistake.
Twice is stoopidity.
Thrice is deliberate.

 

[Teufelhunden]

I simplify the 4 rules: Guns are dangerous; treat them as such.

Simplify, simplify, simplify. -Henry David Thoreau

-Teuf

 

[Double Maduro]

Teuf,

I like it.

DM

 

[jefnvk]

fespo, I'll put this a bit kinder than paul. People simply don't take the time to proofread on forums. If you try to correct everyone, you will go insane. Life has been much better for me since I have stopped trying to correct everyone on the iternet.

As for the topic, I must have much more sense than many people. I'll comment as the guy on the other end, as I was today. Picked up a Yugo refurb K98 today at the sporting goods store. Did the usualy check to see if it was empty, turn the safety on, etc. Flipped it upside down to check out the markings, immediately noticed I was pointing it in someone elses general direction (mind you, not directly at the person, certainly not aimed at them, or even pointed while shouldered). Immediately pointed the muzzle at the ceiling as I continued.

As for paul, you and the others that pound on someone for making a correction make me want to puke If it bothers you, what he said, ignore it.

 

[MikeIsaj]

Cowboybobb693;

I asked him THREE times not to point the weapon at me

Your so focused on being offended you don't get the point. I don't care if you asked him three hundred times. If you can walk away from the situation, that's what you do. You do not assault people if you can avoid it, and your assault is not justified if you had the ability and opportunity to walk away. I am not attacking you, I'm trying to keep you out of prison. Unload the chip from your shoulder and take some friendly advice. You did the wrong thing.

I can't imagine myself sweeping you three times. But I can imagine with your apparent temperment that I could easily offend you. If you were to put me lovingly in a choke hold, I would put you down hard. Things would be cracked or broken, I would be on top and a positively loaded gun would be at your head, until the police arrived to arrest you. I would see you go to jail for assault right after a trip to the emergency room to check out the broken things. You see, in your anger you forget that you don't know me either!

Get a grip, turn off the testosterone pump, learn to control the anger. Until then please leave the guns at home.

 

[Farnham]

but, if you were to read my ENTIRE post you will notice that I asked him THREE times not to point the weapon at me. Now if you or any other member of this board were to continue to point a weapon at somone after being warned this many times I'm sure that you should/ would take remedial training in weapons handling.

You're sort of right, cowboybob, if I were to continue pointing a weapon at you and you told me three times to knock it off, I'd definitely seek some weapons handling training. However, you weren't talking to me.

If instead of warning the aforementioned nimrod (who may or may not be as understanding as I am) for the third time, you go to "choke him out" and he plugs you, he is absolutely justified in shooting you until you stop kicking, gargling, and bleeding.

Military service or not, you might want to do a quick review of deadly force. You might be able to claim he threatened you by covering you with the muzzle, but YOU escalated the situation. I'm pretty sure that the clerk that thought it was funny when you were the last man standing would have gladly testified, "Your Honor, cowboybob just went flat nuts and tackled the accused, and the accused put a couple hundred grains of self defense in him, BOB JUST WENT CRAZY!!!"

And yes, I read your entire post, and yes I caught that you told him 3 times, but just because the guy appears to be an idiot doesn't justify you attacking him. Call me crazy, but I can differentiate between Nimrod looking at a pistol in the gun store and Gangbanger/Thug/Ex-wife planning on doing me harm. And Nimrod jumping me in gunstore is definitely intent on doing me harm. Don't take it personally.

S/F

Farnham

 

[SalukiFan]

"Unloaded" guns

I was listening to Tom Martino's radio show (he's a consumer advocate if you haven't heard him) and a guy called in with quite a story.

He had purchased a brand new .22 rifle from Walmart, taken it home and when he went to check it out, realized that it was LOADED. Thankfully, he had had the sense to treat it like it was loaded when he was at the store and after he got it home. It turns out that the people at the factory had forgotten to unload the rifle after the test-firing!

Personally, I always double check the gun to see if it's loaded myself, even if the clerk just checked it in front of me. Checking plus using the 4 rules makes sure no one gets hurt...

 

[Ryder]

Perhaps the limited amount of handling that non-hunters get explains some of what you guys are describing? I know that hunting sun-up to sun-down while actually carrying a firearm adds up to a lot of safe gunhandling practice in a hurry

I have examined guns in large crowds without sweeping anybody. I don't see any excuse for that, ever. I also carry pistols crossdraw and have to wonder who these people are that theorize you can't draw from that carry position without sweeping others. They don't even carry that way. What entitles anyone to voice an opinion on what I might do? Real genius at work there.

I've been unintentionally swept by others and I have no qualms on informing them just how stupid that is in a way they will take notice of but I'd never physically attack anyone for it. I believe the reason I tell them is so they don't shoot somebody else. Viewing that would bother me significantly but guns don't scare me personally and yes I've been shot.

 

[Elmer]

I certainly understand the anger one feels when a firearm, loaded or not, is pointed your way.

I've never "choked out" someone for doing it at a gun store, or at the range. Having taught firearms to police recruits, I'd have choked out quite a few students.

I have, however, grabbed the gun away from those who continuously violate the pointing rule, including those who have done it to me in gun stores, or at gun shows. This, in itself, has created some pretty heated confrontations. Explaining I was a police officer usually calmed down the situation, but it hasn't happened to me since I became a civilian. I suppose I could be in for a boxing match if I try it today. Leaving the store probably would be the best idea, if the management doesn't handle it, or is the violator.

Now pointing a gun at me that I know to be loaded.... At a range or anywhere else.... We'll be having some form of confrontation, with the possibility of some very loud noises......

 

[Tokugawa]

maybe we all need to get biz size cards printed with the four rules and start handing them out to the "perps"- on one side in big red letters- "PLEASE STOP POINTING THAT WEAPON AT ME !"

 

[Elmer]

Sounds like a good idea!