today's target practice pics

[Milt1]

Some days are going to be better than others on the range. Depends on how much sleep you got the night before, how many cups of coffee that morning, how nervous or how rushed you may feel on a given day. Lots of factors that affect one's shooting!

 

[ATLDave]

If the nose dips down when when you hit a dry chamber, that’s called a flinch. How could he notice the nose dipping down while you’re firing and the gun is under recoil?

If the observer has his eyes open, large flinches can be seen during firing.

The thing that makes a flinch a flinch is that the downward push comes before the recoil. If the downward input comes during recoil, that's just called recoil control. It's the pre-ignition flinch that causes accuracy problems. It's usually as fast as a human blink, so it takes a lot of visual processing speed by an observer to see it in real time, but it's absolutely there.

 

[whughett]

Knew a guy, pretty good shot but didn’t do a lot off it.
His theory: Practice is a way to re-enforce bad habits. Sometimes I think he may have a point. .

 

[MechAg94]

One thing I finally "learned" the last year or two is the importance of high visibility sights. Maybe it is because I am losing my near vision with age. Fiber optic front sights or the brightly colored dot on the front sight make it a great deal easier to maintain concentration on my sights when firing off a magazine. Without that, it is easy to get sloppy. I maintain much tighter groups with better sights even with the same gun.

Also, in the little bit of competition shooting I have done (practical pistol), the main thing I remember is putting the bright red dot on the target and firing. The fiber optic sights make it easy.

 

[buddyd157]

One thing I finally "learned" the last year or two is the importance of high visibility sights. Maybe it is because I am losing my near vision with age. Fiber optic front sights or the brightly colored dot on the front sight make it a great deal easier to maintain concentration on my sights when firing off a magazine. Without that, it is easy to get sloppy. I maintain much tighter groups with better sights even with the same gun.

Also, in the little bit of competition shooting I have done (practical pistol), the main thing I remember is putting the bright red dot on the target and firing. The fiber optic sights make it easy.

i just did a search, one great set of sights i am seeing demonstrations on are the, True Glo Bright Sight TFO

 

[ATLDave]

i just did a search, one great set of sights i am seeing demonstrations on are the, True Glo Bright Sight TFO

Most people (not all, but most) shoot best with a single small fiber (or glowing) dot in the front sight and a plain rear sight. Other sight configurations exist and have some benefits for some people, but most shooters would be well served to try the fiber-front/plain rear combo early in their sight experimentation.

 

[buddyd157]

Most people (not all, but most) shoot best with a single small fiber (or glowing) dot in the front sight and a plain rear sight. Other sight configurations exist and have some benefits for some people, but most shooters would be well served to try the fiber-front/plain rear combo early in their sight experimentation.

can a person install those sights or is it advisable for a gun smith to do it?

 

[ATLDave]

It depends on the gun and sight(s). It can be a good deal harder than a number of common gun modifications. It's not complicated, but having the right tools and the right touch helps.

 

[Howland937]

A decent but inexpensive sight pusher and some YouTube videos will handle most of them...

 

[buddyd157]

ok, i had both guns with me like always. i shot off 150 rounds for each gun, in 2 sets of 75 per target....i use 2 targets per 75 rounds, each gun.

i am only going to post the "better" hits for each gun, rather than all 4

this was the CZ the first volley of 75 shots......(the second volley of 75, i was a bit sloppy, and had some shots down and low into the #6 area) also, the new rubber grips made it easier to grip and felt great



this next one, is actually the second volley of 75 shots for the Glock 17...(the first volley of 75, i was all over the place)



with some help from the range officer, i was getting closer to the red center

 

[Howland937]

Seems better than the last ones you shared so it seems to be going in the right direction. Curious though...have you considered just firing 5 rounds at a time? Take a picture, then 5 more and so on. See if the strays are toward the beginning, end, or mixed throughout your range sessions?

 

[J-Bar]

Reduce the size of your aiming point. Put a sticker dot on the paper and use that, slow fire one at a time.

Then what does it look like?

Target at 51 feet (maximum for this range), shot one-handed bullseye style, using a S&W .22 LR revolver in single action mode. Not great, not terrible.



Your groups are better than many I see at the range, so don’t be discouraged. But I bet you are capable of shooting smaller groups.

 

[Howland937]

That's what I was getting around to too. Smaller number of rounds, then smaller target.

 

[lionking]

Some days are going to be better than others on the range. Depends on how much sleep you got the night before, how many cups of coffee that morning, how nervous or how rushed you may feel on a given day. Lots of factors that affect one's shooting!

This very true, some days the mental or physical focus or both are just off. Not to hijack the thread away from the OP but here are a couple of example targets of mine at 10 yards firing a shot about every 5 seconds , the one target I even noted on it "feeling off" to remind myself the day I did it when I was testing different ammo in my Beretta 92. The 2nd pic is what I do when I am more in tune.
View attachment 900401
View attachment 900402

 

[buddyd157]

Seems better than the last ones you shared so it seems to be going in the right direction. Curious though...have you considered just firing 5 rounds at a time? Take a picture, then 5 more and so on. See if the strays are toward the beginning, end, or mixed throughout your range sessions?

no, i do not take the camera with me, i take these targets home, place them up to a windows so the light shines thru the holes.

i do not have a phone that is modern, i have to pull a 35 foot trailer behind my car, for all the string i need to make a call....(j/k)

seriously though, i have an old style flip phone that can take pics, but i do not have the adapter needed to download to my puter. and i have a low use plan, so i cannot email pics either.

i was in single action, so every time i'd shoot, i'd look at the target. the range guy said, go to double action, shoot about 5 times, THEN check your progress.

that seemed to work this time around, with both guns.

in my case, the strays were different per gun. either before or after, i was not consistent with the strays

 

[Howland937]

i was in single action, so every time i'd shoot, i'd look at the target. the range guy said, go to double action, shoot about 5 times, THEN check your progress.[/Q poopUOTE]

I was kinda hoping you're looking at the target the whole time you're shooting...if not, what ARE you looking at while you're shooting? Lol

At this point I don't think I'd change much since you're not doing badly by any means...maybe just focus on a smaller area...make a 1" black dot in the center of the red?

 

[buddyd157]

I was kinda hoping you're looking at the target the whole time you're shooting...if not, what ARE you looking at while you're shooting? Lol

At this point I don't think I'd change much since you're not doing badly by any means...maybe just focus on a smaller area...make a 1" black dot in the center of the red?

i was told to blur out the rear sights, and blur out the target (once i get a bead on it) and then focus on the front sight only, then fire away...before, after each single shot, i'd look at the target, and of course have to refocus all over again, this is when the range guy said to go into double action once i get going...then look at the target, and start over again.

next week, he said try shooting D/A 10 times in a row, and then check the target.

i will indeed try that black dot as you mention.

i did buy 2 black marker pens....already lost one......i hate when that happens, don't you..?????????

 

[buddyd157]

Some days are going to be better than others on the range. Depends on how much sleep you got the night before, how many cups of coffee that morning, how nervous or how rushed you may feel on a given day. Lots of factors that affect one's shooting!

you know, i search the web now for various shooting related videos and information..

ok, so i found at the very least 3 videos, when the shooter missed the target. i didn't feel so bad after seeing those videos.

like you, the range guy(s) have said basically the same thing "some days are better than others", then i related back to them, after 48 years of trucking (and years before that as a mechanic) there would be times, i could NOT back into am loading dock to save my life.... and the feeling of being a rookie driver, is how one feels, when he "can't find the hole"......lol......(and do not say "add hair onto it".....cuz that don't always work either..).....lol...lol

 

[peeplwtchr]

Are you trapping the trigger after the first shot, and on subsequent shots? You should be. Doing a full pull every shot can cause this.

Keep your eye on the front sight only, not the rear sights or the target.

If you are gripping too hard with your right hand, shots will generall go low left. Grip with handshake pressure, and apply a tighter pressure with your left hand. If you grip too hard with your trigger hand, your trigger finger can't move as fluidly. This is all reverse if you shoot left handed.

If you are presenting (Draw) and firing, you need to do all of the above, plus take the slack out of the trigger before you shoot. The trigger should be trapped before you extend fully. These steps will resolve 98% of grouping issues. I learned this through hours and hours of Present/Fire training with a former Sniper and Frontsight instructor.

The differences you get between guns are likely not recoil related unless you are shooting vert fast groups. The difference probably lies in that you have not learned trigger control for each of the triggers you are shooting. Stick with one gun and learn that trigger before you go skipping around. I know all these things from making all these mistakes. I still would be if I didn't find this instructor.

I do go against the skipping around rule in one way. I use a 22lr pistol for 80% of my training because I train for hours each week, and it saves me hundreds in ammo cost. However I started this once I learned my carry 9mm trigger. After a few hours training on my 22 I end each session with my 9mm, 100 rounds, so it's fresh in my mind.

The attached pic is a very, very good day, presenting and firing, with 2 center mass shots off in less than 2 seconds, including the draw. a following head shot within 2 seconds later. Accuracy nowhere near my instructor.

Keep in mind this is after about 200 hours of range firing, 20 hours of instruction. Key is training first, lots of practice second.

 

[peeplwtchr]

Some days are going to be better than others on the range. Depends on how much sleep you got the night before, how many cups of coffee that morning, how nervous or how rushed you may feel on a given day. Lots of factors that affect one's shooting!

All true. I find that I am far less accurate if I am hungry as well.

 

[Howland937]

All true. I find that I am far less accurate if I am hungry as well.

I find I'm far less of everything except grouchy when I'm hungry.

It's sounds as cliche as anything you'll ever hear, but the whole "aim small, miss small" does have merit.

 

[buddyd157]

Are you trapping the trigger after the first shot, and on subsequent shots? You should be. Doing a full pull every shot can cause this.

i do not know what that means...trapping?

Keep your eye on the front sight only, not the rear sights or the target.

that is exactly what the range guy told me, and i do just that now

If you are gripping too hard with your right hand, shots will generally go low left. Grip with handshake pressure, and apply a tighter pressure with your left hand. If you grip too hard with your trigger hand, your trigger finger can't move as fluidly. This is all reverse if you shoot left handed.

yes, this is what a range guy told me, and once i loosened my grip a bit right hand), my shoots were more centered.

If you are presenting (Draw) and firing, you need to do all of the above, plus take the slack out of the trigger before you shoot. The trigger should be trapped before you extend fully. These steps will resolve 98% of grouping issues. I learned this through hours and hours of Present/Fire training with a former Sniper and Frontsight instructor.

i do not "draw" gun is already in my hand

The differences you get between guns are likely not recoil related unless you are shooting vert fast groups. The difference probably lies in that you have not learned trigger control for each of the triggers you are shooting. Stick with one gun and learn that trigger before you go skipping around. I know all these things from making all these mistakes. I still would be if I didn't find this instructor.

not sure what you mean by.."shooting very fast groups", but for instance at the range, they really only allow one shot per second, not rapid fire...is that what you meant?

I do go against the skipping around rule in one way. I use a 22lr pistol for 80% of my training because I train for hours each week, and it saves me hundreds in ammo cost. However I started this once I learned my carry 9mm trigger. After a few hours training on my 22 I end each session with my 9mm, 100 rounds, so it's fresh in my mind.

The attached pic is a very, very good day, presenting and firing, with 2 center mass shots off in less than 2 seconds, including the draw. a following head shot within 2 seconds later. Accuracy nowhere near my instructor.

Keep in mind this is after about 200 hours of range firing, 20 hours of instruction. Key is training first, lots of practice second.

as i mentioned, i go at least 2 times per week, sometimes, if i can, i'll go a 3rd day. so far, i have up to, 14 hours of practice time in, with help from the range guy, as i ask for it.

i suppose i could (and was actually thinking about it) is to take one gun a day to the range, rather than the 2....soon, it'll be 3 as one more is on order.

thanks for your opinions, advice, and input..!! (but i still need to know what does "trapping the trigger mean", and maybe i am already doing it...or not, i'll respond when you or someone else explains what it is..

edit...i just googled "trapping the trigger", and yes, i was...this is when the range guy said release it a tiny bit, feel the click and pull again for D/A...

 

[Mauser lover]

I wouldn't practice a bunch of double action until you are confident in what you can do with that particular gun. I'd shoot the CZ exclusively, if I were you. After all, that's pretty much what I do (shoot CZs instead of Glocks)! If you want to shoot small groups, slow is the way to do it. After every shot, make a conscious effort to see your impact, choose your next impact point, reacquire your target and sight alignment, focus on your sights, and a slow, steady squeeze of the trigger. Focus on getting all of your first ten shots in the X ring (pick a number, pick a target). Then focus on your next set of ten (or whatever number you choose) into that X ring (or whatever target size you choose). As you get better, you will get more confident, and maybe eventually all of those ten shots will make it into that X ring. Mine aren't always.

Also, are you flinching? How do you know if you are, or are not? Have a range buddy load one of your magazines with dummies at random places, or load your own if you have multiple magazines to force yourself to forget where the dummies are. If your hammer falls and your sights aren't on the target anymore, you have found the problem.

If you get bored, there are drills you can do. I use the TDA Dot Torture drill, but there are many from which to choose. This one particularly is suited to firing from a draw, but there are others you can use. The big thing is that it has tiny (two inch) targets.

If you want to see how accurate the GUN is, use a rest. All guns vary a little bit, but not having it broken-in shouldn't harm your accuracy. Eventually (many thousands of rounds, usually) your gun will wear out and start producing larger groups, but if the gun is functioning, it doesn't need to be broken in, especially regarding accuracy.

 

[peeplwtchr]

I wouldn't practice a bunch of double action until you are confident in what you can do with that particular gun. I'd shoot the CZ exclusively, if I were you. After all, that's pretty much what I do (shoot CZs instead of Glocks)! If you want to shoot small groups, slow is the way to do it. After every shot, make a conscious effort to see your impact, choose your next impact point, reacquire your target and sight alignment, focus on your sights, and a slow, steady squeeze of the trigger. Focus on getting all of your first ten shots in the X ring (pick a number, pick a target). Then focus on your next set of ten (or whatever number you choose) into that X ring (or whatever target size you choose). As you get better, you will get more confident, and maybe eventually all of those ten shots will make it into that X ring. Mine aren't always.

Also, are you flinching? How do you know if you are, or are not? Have a range buddy load one of your magazines with dummies at random places, or load your own if you have multiple magazines to force yourself to forget where the dummies are. If your hammer falls and your sights aren't on the target anymore, you have found the problem.

If you get bored, there are drills you can do. I use the TDA Dot Torture drill, but there are many from which to choose. This one particularly is suited to firing from a draw, but there are others you can use. The big thing is that it has tiny (two inch) targets.

If you want to see how accurate the GUN is, use a rest. All guns vary a little bit, but not having it broken-in shouldn't harm your accuracy. Eventually (many thousands of rounds, usually) your gun will wear out and start producing larger groups, but if the gun is functioning, it doesn't need to be broken in, especially regarding accuracy.

I was just talking to my instructor last weekend about DA guns for self defense. I have never understood an advantage of old 1911 style technology over striker guns for self defense. He said you have to practice FAR more with DA guns for defense. Too many more steps and possible concerns using them. I dont own one for that reason. He brought one to the range to show me the differences in training. I gotta say, after the first trigger pull, the trigger is damn sweet. Almost made me think about buying one, but nah.

 

[Mauser lover]

The DA capability of the CZ system is what hooked me (being able to do nothing but pull the trigger when I need it). I never use it anymore. I instinctively sweep the safety off just fine. I even converted one of mine to a single action only. I'm a convert to the older style!

The striker design isn't new. It's just cheaper to produce, so more common now. Unfortunately it seems that they universally have lousy triggers! Even "good" triggers on striker guns have pretty long and mushy trigger pulls.

So... do you want to have a safety to perhaps forget? Do you want to have a really nice trigger? Unfortunately, it seems that these things are (or at least seem to be) always together. You can get a REALLY smooth DA trigger if you want to do some work, or have some work done, but it is still going to be pretty long.