Too close for comfort

[durango]

Here’s a scenario, but it’s not hypothetical. This happened to me many years back (before I owned a gun or a CCW) and I think about it from time to time and wonder how I would have handled the situation if I had been armed at the time. I’d be interested in your opinions.

I was at the corner laundromat not far from my apartment on a weekend afternoon and I was the only one in the place. As I’m busy stuffing my clothes into the washer a young man (aka hood) walks right up to me, looks me in the eye and says in a calm but rather menacing manner “You the guy that was callin’ me out†(or calling me some name or something to that effect). I don’t remember the exact words. He is standing about 3 feet away from me and over his shoulder I see 2 of his buddies in the doorway looking out toward the street. I get this cold chill down my spine and figure I’m about to get rolled. I doubt I could beat this guy one on one and definitely not 3 to 1. Thankfully no weapons are being displayed. Now I’ve never seen any of them before, nor had any verbal exchanges with anyone prior to this, so in my most humble, non-aggressive voice (not too difficult since I’m not feeling too cocky at this point) I explain that I have no idea what he’s talking about and have never said anything to him before. He asks me again like he’s trying to figure me out, and I repeat myself. Eventually I say “look, I just want to do my laundry here, I’m not looking for any fightsâ€. He looks me in the eye and then leans toward me and pats me on the shoulder and says something to the effect of “OK man, no problemâ€. He and his buddies walk out. I take a few deep breaths, grab all my clothes out of the washer and head for safer ground.

Good outcome, but it really shook me up. I realized that if these gangbangers (my assumption) had wanted to hurt or kill me, I would have been pretty much at their mercy. I’m sure I did the right thing at the time, (aside from my nonexistent situational awareness), but I can’t help wondering what the proper response would have been if I had been carrying. They may have been armed but I never saw a weapon. I definitely felt threatened, but there was never a clear cut threat to my life, he merely approached me and asked a question. Never made a single verbal threat. This turned out OK but was it merely luck? If I had drawn a handgun, would this have potentially turned out much worse. I guess my question is, how close is too close if you feel that someone is threatening you. If you were in this situation and someone approached you like this, how would you handle it? Appreciate any thoughts on this.

 

[Ryder]

Man, I hate laundromats! Have to use them when I travel though. What would I have done? Taken a stance one step back and said the same as you.

Here's me in Georgia during my last laundry stop. A spot opened up by the door and I was going to move the bike closer. Can you spot the 1911?

 

[Sharpie1]

If I had drawn a handgun, would this have potentially turned out much worse.

Yes, most definately.

If you were in this situation and someone approached you like this, how would you handle it?

Exactly as you did, except I would have been armed.

If you were writing a book on how to handle bad situations such as this, advising people to do exactly as you did would definately be the best advice.

Of course, I am also a big believer in insurance, if you know what I mean. You know, in case the guy doesn't pat you on the shoulder and say, "...no problem...".

TD

 

[LynnKCircle]

You Never Know ..

A lot of times you never know when you're being paranoid or rational. Because my job involves basically sitting on my butt all day, I like to take a brisk walk during my lunch hour (I bring my lunch and eat while working!)
My job has a "no firearms" policy so, although I have a CHL and keep a pistol in my car, I don't go out armed.

A few weeks ago I really ran late and took my noon stroll around 3:30 in the afternoon. It seemed as if I were about the only pedestrian on the street. When walking back I noticed two men waiting at a bus stop. As I approached one of them began walking in front of me while the other peeled off behind.

Was it happenstance and they simply decided to go to a different bus stop? Or was it something else?

I didn't wait to find out. During a time when traffic was stopped, so there were lots of witnesses, I bent over as if tying my shoe, then took a few steps so both were in front of me. As soon as I could I crossed the street at a right angle to the way we'd all been walking. If they'd turned and followed me I really would have gotten worried, but as it was they didn't.

So was I being paranoid? Or were these two muggers who figured an older man would be an easy target, and who then realized I'd made them and decided to look elsewhere? I'll never know.

If I had been carrying, I would have done precisely the same things -- but I would have been far less nervous about possible outcomes.

Lynn Circle

 

[AJ Dual]

Sounds familiar...

Sounds like he was making up some fake street-cred for his buddies.

He probably told his friends a tale about some imaginary punk trash-talking about him, and when they encouraged him to settle the score, he had no choice but to pick out the first isolated stranger he thought he could take in a fight.

He then used your reaction to feign that you apologized for whatever story he made up to his friends about "you". Then quickly walked off before the illusion was ruined for his buddies. Either that or it was an honest case of mistaken identity.

I had the exact same thing happen to me in highschool. A kid I barely knew came up to me in the cafeteria and pushed my shoulder and demanded to know "why I was talking s--- about him". I gave him my most disgusted and confused look, stood up, happily found him at eye level with my chin, and said loudly, "I'm sorry, but am I supposed to know who you are?".

His two buddies standing off at a distance started laughing hysterically, and the kid just deflated and walked away from all of us.

I was now even more completely confused at that point. A friend of mine who sat near the goof in one of his classes had heard this guy bragging to his friends for weeks about someone trash-talking him and making moves on his girlfriend, and what he was going to do about it.

I then put it together that the kid's friends got tired of his stories and demanded some proof, so he felt forced to pick out the first random guy in a remote corner of the cafeteria he found.

Equal parts hilarious and pathetic.

 

[Dionysusigma]

Either that or it was an honest case of mistaken identity.

If so, I wonder what happened to the other guy once they found him...

He looks me in the eye and then leans toward me and pats me on the shoulder and says something to the effect of “OK man, no problemâ€...
If you were in this situation and someone approached you like this, how would you handle it?

If that's the outcome you wanted, you did everything absolutely perfectly.

 

[Devonai]

You did well. A firearm would have only served to change a different outcome. A soft answer turneth away wrath.

Knowing just a little practical martial arts would have made a difference if these guys were going to try and thump your skull, and at least give you a better legal reason should you subsequently draw your weapon. I'm 27, 5'10" and muscular so proving a disparity of force might be more difficult. YMMV.

 

[Ed Straker]

You did very well once the encounter started. Beware of 'Condition White' beforehand. Most of the time, if you face these punks down, they'll slink away. If they have a more serious purpose, look at all the improvisable weapons there in the laundromat. A seabag with a big ol' box of Gain in the bottom, or a sock with a roll of quarters... Wisk in their face beats ring around your collar...
On another forum, a guy has a tagline, 'Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.'

 

[ACP]

No OC spray on you? No knife? No walking stick or ninja stars?

I can't imagine carrying NOTHING on me for self defense...

 

[P95Carry]

If anything in that situation, if you WERE armed ... then you would have done as you did, but maybe been even more ''polite''. Having the ''ultimate sanction'' on your person does and should steer one away from trouble even more .. and certainly presentation of a piece in that situation could have been disasterous.

The main difference it would probably have made - would have been to reduce significantly your fear level - and that solely because of the ''insurance factor' We have discussed many times here how it seems most of us who carry, agree ... we may be better prepared but ... we will almost certainly be way MORE willing to defuze and escape a situation... hero stuff is not an option.

 

[durango]

Yes I was totally unarmed and quite naive at that point. Did not have much of a survival mindset. Whats more, my situational awareness was pretty much zero. If armed, I would still do everything I could to diffuse the situation. What I wonder is, if this was you and you saw these 3 enter the the laundromat and two of them park themselves at the door while the third stode over to you, would you let him get close or would you tell him to stay back. If he continued forward what would you do? He's not armed (as far as you can see) and he's just verbally confronting you. You have little to no room to back up. What do you do??

 

[P95Carry]

That last thing you mention is perhaps one of the hardest things to judge IMO .. just ''how bad'' are the ''bad dudes'' gonna be?! Never an easy answer.

If carrying tho then I think condition orange is met .. and I would try and place myself so as to see all the guys at one look ... plus position self so that piece is very accessible - max accessibility but without that being made obvious.

If then the one who approaches shows signs of threat, intimidation, or even the other 2 ... then I would place hand on piece which in itself is probably gonna be apparent to an observer . reinforce that action as needed short of actually showing the piece.

To the critical scrutineer of this who might say you were yourself being threatening ...... well, unless the piece is presented to plain view . you coyuld be scratching your butt and pretending ... no proof yet.

In this position of preparedness - well, the next move would depend on the potential BG ... and if really and truly needed . you could present quick as wink .... and have the edge.

As always, when we discuss these scenarios . so much cannot be included really, cos, they are all unique and as ever ...... circumstances alter events. We have to finally use our best judgement - at the time.



Only my personal and very humble hypothetical 2 cents!

 

[Ryder]

if this was you and you saw these 3 enter the the laundromat and two of them park themselves at the door while the third stode over to you, would you let him get close or would you tell him to stay back.

I would get something between us. A table, laundry basket, washing machine, a support pole, a dry door... Anything. It's not so much for cover as it is a line in the sand. It complicates any move he might try and gives me a slight advantage as he is negotiating the obstacle. I've done this several times before and without a word said they always know better than to cross that line. It has defused fights.

There's nothing more dangerous than a cornered "Ryder"

 

[lycanthrope]

Had you been carrying and the thug got close enough to lean in and pat you then you were in a very bad place. There is no certainty that your kind words were interpreted as sincere or if he was out to prove something to his friends. The hand pat could have easily been a knife or worse. I've seen several of these situations turn into sucker punches.

The dialogue was good, but backpedaling or using a barriar would have been a necessity with a weapon.

Anyone who has been warned and is inside arms length is a threat.

 

[Sven]

Ryder: LOL.

-

If you drew a weapon, and he drew a weapon, what would you do? He's got two guys behind him. Hope you have a spare mag - you may need it.

 

[Oleg Volk]

Weak hand up, in a placating gesture. Verbalize your non-belliegenrence. Strong hand out of sight, even if you have no weapon. Make them wonder.

 

[TonyB]

A couple years ago I was vaccuuming out my car at the car wash,when I'm inside the passenger side doing the floor when I hear some muffled cursing.I get out and there's this punk swearing at me ,calling me a "fag" and saying I parked on the wrong side of the vaccuum and he's gonna kick my a$$....I was un armed and caught by surprise so my reaction was one of "huh?".....I just kind of looked at the guy....he's in my face and all I have is a vaccuum hose....he's not huge but could probably fight.....I'm no slouch but don't want to get in a fight on my lunch hour from work.......so after a few tense seconds of me going"I don't know what the hell you're talking about..." he says"Man, you'd probably just call the cops." and jumps in his car and takes off......I'm not sure if I did anything to make him take off,maybe the fact that I didn't challenge him...or maybe because I was to surprised to be afraid..........after a woman came over and said she was sooo scared that he was on drugs and/or had a gun........I was still confused by the whole thing and said"I don't know what his problem was."
all's well that ends well,but now that I always have my CCW I'd probably only have my hand on my gun at the time....other than that I'm not sure I would'be done anything different...

 

[Aleko]

Had you been carrying and the thug got close enough to lean in and pat you then you were in a very bad place. There is no certainty that your kind words were interpreted as sincere or if he was out to prove something to his friends. The hand pat could have easily been a knife or worse. I've seen several of these situations turn into sucker punches.

I was going to say the same thing, but lycanthrope beat me to it. If someone is "challenging" me (either verbally or physically), and then makes a move to get closer and "hug" me, I'd instantly get very nervous and try to regain the distance by pushing him away or stepping back. It doesn't take long to produce a knife while going for a "hug", and you wouldn't even notice anything until after it's too late. In your situation, however, stepping back or pushing him away could have been interpreted as escalation (in his mind anyways, because his street-pride was hurt at that point), and could have led to a different outcome.

 

[WonderNine]

Luckily, I've never been singled out for this kind of stupidity. I guess I'm the kind that worries more about MY pride than someone else's, so I'd tell them to go **** their ****** and then some more, if you know what I mean.

 

[P95Carry]

so I'd tell them to go **** their ****** and then some more, if you know what I mean.

Sorry W9 .. you really need to be more specific than that!!

 

[durango]

Well hopefully it will never happen again. If it does the situation will probably be all different I suppose, but talking through some of these scenarios is very helpful in my opinion. All good advice (except perhaps telling them to **** their ******. I don't think I could have pulled that off with much style!).

 

[rayjay]

This is a great example of using your head to defuse a situation without anyone getting hurt and no shots fired. You sir, did the right thing. Even if you were carrying concealed, verbally defusing the situation is and will always the best way.

 

[Big Mike]

Read More Guns, Less Crime by John Lott. He talks about statistics on active resistance vs. passive resistance in situations like that. FYI...Mike

 

[lycanthrope]

Big Mike,

I'm way too busy to read. Can you summarize those statistics?

 

[cidirkona]

What you had was an interview.

He was trying to figure out if you were an easy target or not or if you would stand your ground. Most people at that point would let that chill in their spin turn their head away from the 'hood.' Even when justified, bringing a firearm into any situation (spare practice and competition) will only make the situation more violent and dangerous - hopefully towards the attacker. You did right in not shying away at an otherwise stressful 'orange' condition, or code 2 or whatever you want to call it.

-Colin