Manchin-Toomey amendment Text http://www.toomey.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=968
Use this board...well you have to do a background check.
Use this board...well you have to do a background check.
Toomey-Manchin Text Released Embrace the Suck
- Thread starter gfanikf
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I'll read the whole thing tomorrow. I'm glad that with the national deficit at 17 trillion and social security going to run out before I get there, they want to spend 100 million EACH YEAR for this bogus infringement on our Rights.
That's the least worrying thing.
Sounds like FTF personal sales are allowed, but only from your private residence?
"(7) For purposes of this subsection, the term ‘gun show or event'-
"(A) means any event at which 75 or more firearms are offered or exhibited for sale, exchange, or transfer, if 1 or more of the firearms has been shipped or transported in, or otherwise affects, interstate or foreign commerce; and
"(B) does not include an offer or exhibit of firearms for sale, exchange, or transfer by an individual from the personal collection of that individual, at the private residence of that individual, if the individual is not required to be licensed under section 923.".
"(7) For purposes of this subsection, the term ‘gun show or event'-
"(A) means any event at which 75 or more firearms are offered or exhibited for sale, exchange, or transfer, if 1 or more of the firearms has been shipped or transported in, or otherwise affects, interstate or foreign commerce; and
"(B) does not include an offer or exhibit of firearms for sale, exchange, or transfer by an individual from the personal collection of that individual, at the private residence of that individual, if the individual is not required to be licensed under section 923.".
Steel185
Member
What is expanded on "expanded Background checks"
After reading all the news recently i can't seem to find and answer or maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing. When they say Expanded background checks, what is expanded about them? They are checking a great amount of transactions? or are they checks that dig further into your background, not just legal, but medication, work history, etc?
It might be a stupid question but i think its being sold one way, to "keep mentally ill from purchasing weapons" but is in accuality something else.
After reading all the news recently i can't seem to find and answer or maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing. When they say Expanded background checks, what is expanded about them? They are checking a great amount of transactions? or are they checks that dig further into your background, not just legal, but medication, work history, etc?
It might be a stupid question but i think its being sold one way, to "keep mentally ill from purchasing weapons" but is in accuality something else.
mokin
Member
Good question.
I suspect it is a term coined to sell the point, like "military grade", or "high capacity", when refering to the hoops most gun buyers go through as a matter fo course. A way to open the door to all the amendmetnts which may be added to the bill whien it is finally voted on.
I suspect it is a term coined to sell the point, like "military grade", or "high capacity", when refering to the hoops most gun buyers go through as a matter fo course. A way to open the door to all the amendmetnts which may be added to the bill whien it is finally voted on.
Yep....embrace it.
morcey2
Member
From what I've read so far, the "Interstate Transportation" section will override all local and state laws allowing any concealed or open possession of a loaded firearm in a vehicle. All firearms must be locked up, ammunition must be separate, and not just securely cased. I'm not a lawyer, but I couldn't find an exemption for it.
Matt
Matt
Cosmoline
Member
Thanks!
That's what I expected. Pretty much any transfer involving any internet ad--even a classified cross-printed on line--will require a check. I dare say that implicates most FTF transfers in the 21st century. And broadly construed (as BATFE doubtless WILL construe it), it would encompass any transfer involving any exchange of email, text message or PM on a forum. Post in the rifle forum and mention you might want to sell a rifle? Now you are barred from FTF transfer without NICS. Forever, presumably. It's a nightmare begetting nightmares. Far worse than a total UBC in some ways, because of the traps it lays for the unwary.
NO WAY
NO DEAL
I'm writing letters now.
That's what I expected. Pretty much any transfer involving any internet ad--even a classified cross-printed on line--will require a check. I dare say that implicates most FTF transfers in the 21st century. And broadly construed (as BATFE doubtless WILL construe it), it would encompass any transfer involving any exchange of email, text message or PM on a forum. Post in the rifle forum and mention you might want to sell a rifle? Now you are barred from FTF transfer without NICS. Forever, presumably. It's a nightmare begetting nightmares. Far worse than a total UBC in some ways, because of the traps it lays for the unwary.
NO WAY
NO DEAL
I'm writing letters now.
That creates a dangerous situation. This is what happens when idiots who have never done a FTF transaction write laws. And I don't mean just firearms. Anyone who has ever purchased from Craigslist would know to meet in neutral, well lit area with people around. I'd do the same if I was selling/purchasing a guitar, a ring, or a firearm.
morcey2
Member
Every FTF transaction I've done has been in a public place away from my home, other than one or two from someone I already knew. This is insane. I don't want total stranger knowing where I live and I'm sure they don't want me to have a chance to get a good look at their house. You have a choice. Meet at an FFL and pay for the BC, only buy or sell from someone you know, don't do any private transactions, or become a felon, most likely without knowing what you just did.
It'll turn many, many people who haven't otherwise done anything wrong into felons.
Matt
It'll turn many, many people who haven't otherwise done anything wrong into felons.
Matt
No, I dont think so. I dont know how you police whether two people who got together on a site like THR and agrred to meet to sell a gun go through a background check or not.
Some of the other stuff looks good. You will be able to buy a handgun across state lines. WHo wants to argue against that?
Some of the other stuff looks good. You will be able to buy a handgun across state lines. WHo wants to argue against that?
Um... exactly how hard do you think that will be, considering the fact that there will be a (digital) written record of every single transaction? Who is going to agree to buy a gun from someone online, knowing that it is a felony, and that the person they are talking to could actually be a BATF employee?
There's a digital record of every transaction here? No, I dont think so. You offer your Lorcin for sale in KY and I'm a KY resident. We agree to meet. DId the transaction take place? I dunno. There's no record. Maybe you didnt show. Maybe I didnt.
shep854
Member
Unless I know the buyer personally and trust him, I only sell guns by consignment, which are checked already.
No matter what laws are passed, I see no reason to change.
No matter what laws are passed, I see no reason to change.
FROGO207
Member
This is ridiculous! How to screw the whole thing up totally.:banghead::banghead: Hopefully the thing will receive so much grief it will not pass anywhere.
I re read this several times and do not see that the majority of things we now do will still be OK. I read and reason I see some interpret the answers and do not see how they arrived at their explanation. The one about we now have to have the firearm visible if it is in the same compartment in a vehicle per Maine law and unloaded unless a CCW holder now changes to locked and hidden? Also the one about having to do a FTF transfer only in your own home. ???? Then if internet or newspaper initiated not allowed FTF without a BGC??
I re read this several times and do not see that the majority of things we now do will still be OK. I read and reason I see some interpret the answers and do not see how they arrived at their explanation. The one about we now have to have the firearm visible if it is in the same compartment in a vehicle per Maine law and unloaded unless a CCW holder now changes to locked and hidden? Also the one about having to do a FTF transfer only in your own home. ???? Then if internet or newspaper initiated not allowed FTF without a BGC??
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morcey2
Member
...
Matt
Matt
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gc70
Member
"Expanded background checks" would be background checks required for more than just purchases from dealers.
Schumer's bill, which is included in S.649, would generally (with some exemptions) require background checks for all sales, both by dealers and individuals, as well as 'transfers' - essentially letting another person hold a gun.
The Manchin-Toomey proposal would expand background checks to private transactions at gun shows and 'online sales' - not clearly defined, but probably more than commercial gun auction sites and possibly as broad as any online advertising.
Schumer's bill, which is included in S.649, would generally (with some exemptions) require background checks for all sales, both by dealers and individuals, as well as 'transfers' - essentially letting another person hold a gun.
The Manchin-Toomey proposal would expand background checks to private transactions at gun shows and 'online sales' - not clearly defined, but probably more than commercial gun auction sites and possibly as broad as any online advertising.
You ignored a very important part of my post: Why wouldn't the BATF (or other law enforcement agencies) simply create usernames, set up deals with citizens, arrest the person when they show up, and confiscate the firearm? Hell, they would probably be allowed to sell the confiscated firearm at auction after the person was convicted, which would create a big incentive for them to actively engage in these "sting" tactics.
I am very surprised that you don't find this more disturbing than you do.
morcey2
Member
Text here:
http://www.toomey.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=968
According to the proposed text, any transfer that was set up via any communications device would require a background check. This would include texting a seller that had posted in a good old-fashioned newspaper that had no digital version to setup a transaction.
Armslist, utahgunexchange.com, and tons of others would disappear overnight.
Matt
http://www.toomey.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=968
According to the proposed text, any transfer that was set up via any communications device would require a background check. This would include texting a seller that had posted in a good old-fashioned newspaper that had no digital version to setup a transaction.
Armslist, utahgunexchange.com, and tons of others would disappear overnight.
Matt
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