Top Physical Condition!!!??

[Dravur]

Quote from Learningman......I've been on the tread mill since Jan..

WOW, you must be REALLY tired.

But Seriously,
I have been on a strength training and weight loss regimen since January and have lost 40 lbs and put on some muscle. I find that I can shoot better and have more stamina at the range. Am I in shape to run a marathon, Not even if it was downhill and I had a skateboard. Am I working on it, yep.

You know, if a bullet goes just a few inches into ballistic gelatin, maybe I am just carrying around my "Second Chance Fat" Kind of like Ablative Armor.......

 

[Lonestar]

Just to give you guys incentive, if your not in at least "decent" shape the potential bad guy you may face will be. Granted sometimes you will face someone in poor shape or strung out on drugs, but the majority of times your average street thug is in decent to pretty good shape. These guy don't sit around all day eating bon-bons and watching TV.

I laugh every time I hear a fat armchair commando talk about how if they were on one of those flights on 9/11 things would be different. Those 19 terrorist were in PEAK physical condition, and trained in hand to hand combat. Mohammed Atta was described as being build like a soldier or an assassin, when he was stopped. Sure tactical tubby who hasn't been in a fight since grade school and gets winded taking a shower is single handedly going to save the day .

I still wake up every morning and do 100 jumping jacks, 20 pushups, and run 2 to 3 miles a day, and that is tame compared to others. It is so easy to do, once you build up to it. No matter how out of shape you are, start with 20 jumping jacks, 5 pushups and a brisk 1/2 walk, then just keep building on it. Just be able to pass the basic requirement of say the Army or your local Police Force and you will be fine

 

[Patrick_Henry]

Excellent Point

Good point about physical conditioning. Keep in mind that many of the militias guys who fought to make this country free did 20 miles a day for 7 to 10 days to make it to the fight in the first place. I don't think we all need to be weightlifting supermen that can run all day while holding our breath, but we ought to be able to walk hard and fight hard without our bodies being the main problem. If I am ever called upon to defend myself my body screwing up is the last thing I want to have to worry about.

 

[pax]

Got me to thinking that all is really a waste, the guns and rifles, tactics and training, and all if your not in top physical shape.

Hmmm. They don't call it "The Equalizer" for nothing.

I suspect they have a greater risk of dying from the consequences of their physical condition than from a hostile encounter with goblins.

So?

My lifespan is MINE to spend however I wish, not yours to take from me.

If I choose to "waste" the length of my life doing things I enjoy, that's MY choice. That still doesn't give some thug the right to steal even one minute of my lifespan. I still have the basic human right to defend my life, however long or short my lifespan may be.

If I choose to accept a shorter lifespan in exchange for eating what I want, drinking what I like, smoking whatever I want -- who's to say that's not a good trade? You?? But ... it's not your life. It's mine.

I laugh every time I hear a fat armchair commando talk about how if they were on one of those flights on 9/11 things would be different. Those 19 terrorist were in PEAK physical condition, and trained in hand to hand combat....

As a wimpy, out-of-shape middle-aged woman, I have to say that Mohammed Atta probably could have beat the snot out of me. But could he have licked a whole airplane full of people like me? I doubt it. Especially since he probably had the arrogance typical of a fit young man, and underestimated people around him.

You know what? The best firearms instructor I ever met was a slightly overweight 70-something old guy with two bum knees, bad hearing, and all kinds of joint issues. He was also the scariest man I've ever met. I'd put him up against any of the "top physical condition!!" young men posting in this thread, any day. That old saw about age and treachery is right on.

pax

There are people who strictly deprive themselves of each and every eatable, drinkable, and smokable which has in any way acquired a shady reputation. They pay this price for health. And health is all they get for it. How strange it is. It is like paying out your whole fortune for a cow that has gone dry. -- Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens)

 

[telomerase]

If I choose to accept a shorter lifespan in exchange for eating what I want, drinking what I like, smoking whatever I want -- who's to say that's not a good trade?

Not me. But you're female, Pax, and you may actually think about what you eat (you have more working olfactory receptor proteins, for one thing). The original poster was pointing out that a lot of males with martial aspirations tend to overthink and overspend on metal, and underthink and underspend on diet (i.e. live on trans fat cookies and pop) and also skimp the gym. He wasn't saying that hedonism is bad, just that thinking through your goals is good.

Anyway, high-quality dark chocolate is good for you, so you should have no quarrel with the Healthennaziubersturmgruppenfuhrers in any case

 

[gezzer]

Bull frog

Have you tried Humira, gezzer?

I have been in remission for 2 years now; I have lost many pounds but am still FAT by the young guys. I am doing what I can. 30 years of work I miss the job I left to protect my brothers, so they would not get injured or killed by my disability.

I had no moral choice of retiring from the best job/career I ever had. I miss it but God Bless the Brothers left to do the job. The guys who have BTDT and still on the job respect me and others who were there.

Try as I could it could not yet be determined to be caused by the job. I lost mucho money by taking my pension at the time. None of my family had the disease. None either had been exposed to what I have been.

What bothers me is the arrogance of the Physical Health NAZIS. They really believe it is a choice.

 

[BullfrogKen]

From the Hedonist - Do whatever makes you happy.

For some that's the gym and pursuits that hone the body. For others, its enjoying a cigar with honored friends.


I don't carry a gun to save my life. I'd get a lot more benefit wearing the 2 lb vest I keep in my closet than the 2 lbs of steel on my belt if that were my goal. I carry a gun because I will not be subjugated by evil men with evil intentions. I may die in the process, but have resigned I will have some say in the matter of how an attack on me or those I love plays out.


So, for me anyway, carrying a gun isn't about staying alive. It's about having power over my life.

 

[BullfrogKen]

gezzer, that was a very mature action.

If it ever flares up again, remember that even in the past 2 years drugs have come onto the market that are less toxic to the body than Prednisone. Personally, I haven't found any more effective than steroids, but that does its own little bit of evil on us, doesn't it?

 

[Byron Quick]

Physical condition is important.

I don't have it and never have. Been overweight all my life.

However, from being on this board from day one, I've also been in more fights and confrontations than most of the people on this board who are not combat veterans. (Fifteen years of repossessing and collecting bad debt face to face...most in areas where the police rode in pairs.)

I've got a pretty good record. I can't remember exactly how many fights I've been in but probably somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty more or less. I can remember how many losses I've had...three. In all three, I was hit in the head from behind before I knew a fight was in progress. Out of the ones I won, one was 2 on me, one was four on me, and one was eight(special circumstance, they were coming to my campsite at night to beat me, I had prior warning...and a three foot sawn off shovel handle and it was nighttime-I ambushed the lot) I'd put situational awareness and superior intelligence gathering capability ahead of physical condition based on my experiences.

Another thing I'd rank higher is retaining the initiative. Fellow students in my high school learned not to give me advance warning. Some guy would come up to me in the hallway or classroom and say,"Wait until after school, punk." And BOOM! I'd go upside his head, get him in a headlock, trip him, use my overweight butt to pin him to the floor and just do my darndest to ruin his face before I got pulled off of him. Never had but one of those guys come back for seconds and he was with a friend...didn't help as I kicked his help in the balls and proceeded to choke him into unconsciousness to the point that when I was finally peeled off of him he required rescue breathing.

Don't get me wrong, I am in total agreement that physical conditioning is good and that it is an advantage that is good to have. But, people, no matter how good a shape you're in, you are not going to have it always. What are you going to do when you're 85 and have fragile bones? Give up and let the bad guys win?

Tell you what, you can take any UFC fighter you want and on my side give me an arthritic, diabetic, fat, ninety year old woman. Let me pick the terrain for our combat. You and the UFC champion are going to find that you have to climb a tall ladder to get to us. We're waiting for you to try at the top of the wall. I'm in good enough shape that even at 53, overweight, post-stroke, two spinal cord surgeries...I can carry two concrete blocks up to the top of that wall. I don't think you're going to like your day. Tactical advantage. Biggest worry I'd have would be getting her on top of the wall and might just tell her to hide behind as I have all the help I need with gravity. Use of strategic concepts such as shielding my weaknesses, avoiding your strengths while attacking your weaknesses.

 

[gezzer]

Pax , Well put thanks! I wish I could write so eloquent.!!

 

[PH/CIB]

You can be the most deadly Man or Woman on the Face of the Earth with your Hands and Feet, and an Olympic Athlete combined and still die. I have never seen anyone who can out run, out punch, out kick, out fight, and win against a bullet. Getting in shape is admirable, especially for our out of shape society, but never ever make fun of anyone, they might be carrying a gun. It takes less than two seconds to kill someone.

 

[trueblue1776]

I love sport fighting, from Greco-Roman to backyard boxing, I think if you are familiar with contact you will be less likely to shy away from people whom you perceive as a threat, therefore being a less desirable target. That is if I don't get lupus from an old man's voodoo because he was angry that I exercise. Arrogance? It is hard work, and it is a choice, I'm sorry you if don't have that choice.

 

[gezzer]

BullfrogKen gezzer, that was a very mature action.

If it ever flares up again, remember that even in the past 2 years drugs have come onto the market that are less toxic to the body than Prednisone. Personally, I haven't found any more effective than steroids, but that does its own little bit of evil on us, doesn't it?

What else to expect after the training and life I led. LIFE is what counts after seeing the death and Evil I saw in my life that is the most precious.

I loved the job and got much personal gratification from my actions.

All the time I did the job i would have died for my brothers same as any service member would whether the armed forces or the heroes in Law Enforcement, Firefighting and EMT and Paramedics. We never thought of personal heroism or danger. We did what was needed at the time nothing less.

I pray medical tech has progressed as the ten year old tech was not great for longevity.

 

[collateral]

I am 18, around 5'9 and about 200 lbs. I dont work out as much as I'd like, but I think my physical condition is as good as it needs to be. Ive been in quite a few scraps, won most, lost a few. I have a few friends who train in various fighting styles, I have toyed with the idea on and off.

I will be one of the first to say that martial arts can only go so far. When I was 17 I was jumped by a 6'4 26 year old Muy Thai instructor. The fight went to the ground and I kicked the crap out of him. I will agree that a lot of the time a conflict can be determined by using your advantages and your opponents disadvantages against them.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Not In Shape

I'm not in shape.

Haven't been for years.

I'm now overweight and a little stiff in places where I should bend.

What I do have is endurance -- or persistence if you prefer.

I can work through pain. I can keep walking long after my sensibilities have told me to give it up.

I could probably get back into some kind of shape, and probably will now that the remodeling hysteria is mostly done.

If a guy more fit than I am wants to attack me, it will save him lots of time and effort if he just clubs me from behind. If he attacks me head-on, it will cost him. I have no motive nor inclination to fight fair.

Oh, and -- how do I say this delicately -- I might be compensating for something.

For us old farts, a little compensation is a good thing.

If I manage to regain some degree of my prior physical conditioning, that'll be a bonus.

Till then, I'll have to counter "fitness" with "toughness" and a little of that stuff that comes with years.

 

[Byron Quick]

This thread has been rattling around in my head a while now. Reckon that's on account of the toughest man I've ever known.

He broke his back when he was seventeen. Had to have all of his lumbar vertebrae fused then. Six feet tall...160lbs. Had to wear a back brace for several years.

That wasn't the end of his health problems, it was just the beginning. Brain tumor. Five spinal cord tumors. Not counting tumors removed from other areas of his nervous system...he lost count.

By the time he was 45, he was walking with braces on both legs and with a cane. He also had to hold on to something with the other hand and watch his feet as he walked-due to damage to his spinal cord he had no proprioception in his lower legs and feet. Proprioception is the ability to know what position a body part is in without looking at that body part.

I saw this man-unarmed-face down a crowd of drunk, racist rednecks at a supper club one night after they objected that he had the gall to bring some of his black employees into the club. He faced the ringleader, bounced him off the wall several times with an index finger. I've been punched in the chest with that finger and it's like getting hit with a hammer. While delivering the most withering verbal tongue lashing I have ever witnessed one man give to another in public.

I saw young, healthy fit men in that mob who couldn't stand it any more and move to interfere. I saw older men who knew of the 48 year old cripple grab them, pull them back, and whisper in their ears.

They knew that man's history. They knew that he had fought in road clubs, juke joints, and supper clubs all over four counties when he was walking around with that back brace on when he was twenty. Undefeated back during a time when most of the places he went to didn't have glass in the windows...they just tacked plastic sheeting up as that was easier to replace after someone was thrown through it. A regular event.

I've seen that man-in that condition-fight. The other man who was bigger than him was on the floor retching in less than ten seconds. No weapons involved. Twice, when he was in that condition, I've seen fit men challenge him apparently thinking no one in his condition would fight. I've seen both men run when he looked at them over his eyeglasses, told them to wait until he gets to them, and start hobbling their way.

Call it what you will-heart, mental toughness, fire in the belly. There are men and women out there who are in no way the sum of their physical condition. It reminds me of the common 'knowledge' around these boards of the overwhelming fear invoked by the sound of a shotgun being racked. I've known people and know people who won't stop for that. I'm glad that the ones I know and have known are-and were-good people. But the qualities they possessed are sometimes possessed by bad people, also. It's going to take more than racking a shotgun if you get crosswise with one of those people. It's going to take more than conditioning, too.

 

[BullfrogKen]

I can't add to what Byron posted, so I won't try.


Excellent post, buddy. Excellent post . . .

 

[Soybomb]

Byron your post reminds me of a good friend of mind who despite being functionally blind among several other more serious medical conditions has endured more than I'd ever think possible. he even has that finger of doom....

 

[CannibalCrowley]

When I was 17 I was jumped by a 6'4 26 year old Muy Thai instructor.

Who?

What bothers me is the arrogance of the Physical Health NAZIS. They really believe it is a choice.

For the majority of people, it is.

The pure and simple fact is that for all the worrying and fantasizing that some people do about TEOTWAWKI, a home invasion, or some goblin trying to get them; they're still more likely to die from health related issues that anything else.

In 2004 the top ten causes of death were:
1. Heart Disease - 652,029
2. Malignant Neoplasms - 553,806
3. Cerebrovascular - 149,942
4. Chronic Low Respiratory Disease - 121,951
5. Unintentional Injury - 110,872
6. Diabetes Mellitus - 73,134
7. Alzheimer's Disease - 65,965
8. Influenza & Pneumonia - 59,391
9. Nephritis - 42,304
10. Septicemia - 33,099

 

[answerguy]

This discussion about being in shape makes me think of the evacuation of the World Trade Center. Some people, due to their poor condition, were not able to get out in time. Sad enough, but others who tried to help them get out of the building also died.

 

[Joe Demko]

The objection isn't to whether you want to spend more of your time on physical culture. The objection is to the spin you are putting on that choice.

If your message is "I spend more time exercising than you, so I am in better physical condition than you," that is a neutral statement of fact. Nobody would object.

If your message is "I spend more time exercising than you, therefore I am a better person than you," that isn't neutral or a statement of fact. You should expect some objections.

 

[hso]

The point that is being made in this thread is that a very high level of fitness is not essential to be an effective shooter/fighter any more than very high level gear is all that is required to be an effective shooter/fighter. Desirable, perhaps. Essential, no.

There's proficiency that's achieved well below top level, whatever it is we're doing.

 

[Charles S]

Joe, excellent point.

I have followed this thread with interest from it's inception and it is a very good thread. I am not in top physician condition. I however do exercise for the health benifits. I do not have the time or interest in being in top physical condition at this time. I routinely do push ups, crunches, pull ups, a few other calisthenics and walk about 20 miles a week.

I just finish my rotation in Internal Medicine and the information provided by CannibalCrowley as to the leading causes of death is correct. Heart Disease is number 1. Diabetes Type II is rampant in the United States and type II diabetes can in some cases be prevented and effects mitigate with diet and exercise. 30 minutes of exercise (walking) 3 times a week can increase the bodies sensitivity to endogenous insulin and greatly lower mean blood glucose levels. Exercise and diet also have a positive impact on blood pressure.

When it comes to self defense, the most important element is not physical condition but the mind. In Col Cooper's work Principals of Personal Defense the elements necessary for success are; alertness, decisiveness, aggressiveness, speed, coolness, ruthlessness, and surprise. Contextually when referring to speed Col Cooper is referring to both mental and physical response. Notice how many of the elements are purely mental.

Great thread. The quote from Samuel Clemens is priceless. Remember quality is much more important that quantity.

 

[AZgunstudent]

I have a friend in Arizona who is "prepared" for the end of the world - or the end of Phoenix, at any rate. His plan is to gather up his FAL and 1911 and spare ammo, along with the contents of a small campsite, and hike north to Prescott, up the mountains. The problem is, he's 5'6" and probably 320, so I just kind of laugh at his plan.

On the other hand, this same fellow prevailed recently in a pretty dramatic confrontation in his driveway - simply because he had a Glock and the other guy didn't. So physical conditioning might mean more in the dreaded "SHTF" scenario than in a more mundane, if you can call it that, out-of-hand road rage incident. But of course the SHTF scenario is far, far less likely than a run of the mill assault by a criminal.

A close friend of mine did a tour here in Afghanistan shortly before I arrived (he was actually in the unit mine relieved). He's a semi-portly, geeky guy who you wouldn't look at twice on the street. I've seen him fail so many PT tests it bordered on the ridiculous. But you know what? The guy kicked butt in fights. He was in at least eight engagements that I know of, and has a stack of "probable" kills. And for him the S did HTF - he got blown out of a HMMWV by an IED, but made a quick and full recovery despite his portliness.

While I am in reasonable shape for a (National Guard) soldier and work out regularly, I am by no means a superman, nor do I think I need to be. I have to go with Pax on this one. There's a huge difference between the things you are willing inflict on yourself through your own choices and the things a criminal might inflict on you by force and without your consent. And I'll echo another post - I don't carry so I can be "safe," whatever that is. I carry so that my life is my own.

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

I think the common thread here is don't knock other's training, or lack thereof. As a humble lifelong student of martial arts I've known some of those characters, characters with no formal training, characters with heart, humor, and absolute treachery. I've known good shooters who had a hard time walking, and my marksmanship instructor smoked like a Chinese coal factory and shook like a leaf, he was USMC and had insane groups with standard issue A2.
I think the thing is, we should encourage each other wherever we are. I am still youthful and am probably considered 'underweight', so I eat all the time and train alot and enjoy setting a high standard for myself and buddies. It's a hobby, preparing. It seems like there are those who can't train hard physically, and they are kind. Those who can, and don't train at all, make fun of the TEOTWAKI's, and some of the TEOTWAKI's make fun of the couch potato shooters. I personally do not look up to or admire men or women who are blessed with a good strong healthy body and an easy lifestyle and don't harden themselves somehow through regular training and discipline. But that is their choice.
Look we are all shooters. We are all in defense of our country. If there ever is a major event you will want in shape people around you, or at least know they are out there. Being a warrior is a whole endeavor, and those of us who strive for that are unusual people who push ourselves in everything we do, not just fitness. Work. Family. Spirit. Knowledge. Art. Music. Travel. School. People who set high standards achieve excellence in whatever field they undertake. Don't knock those who work hard at what they love.
And always know there are a few out there who are obsessive, determined, undaunted, constant, lifelong, in their pursuit of a more integrated, balanced, and sharpened mind and body. My regards to them, and all who do what they are able at this chapter in life.

st