Training Ammo: How Selective Are You?

[Buzznrose]

When I hit a range and do drills that practice drawing from concealment, engaging multiple targets, and moving/turning and shooting, I consider this as training. I generally use IDPA targets but may also use plates or other type targets. I am shooting between 7 and 15 yards max, mostly around 10 yards. I use a shot timer.

About 60% of the time, I’m shooting a 9MM Glock, either my G19 or G43X, my two primary carry guns. Both have red dots. About 25% of the time, I’m shooting my G44 in .22LR, open sight. The remainder of the time, I’ll run a drill or two with my Glock 19 CO2 BB gun, which is the same size as my actual G19. I usually run the Dot Drill with this. POA is generally off a couple inches left, but I focus on the front sight and target and adjust my score accordingly.

At ten yards, my 147 gr carry ammo hits a inch or two higher (off a rest) than most of my training/range ammo. I’m pretty consistent on carry ammo. My red dots are adjusted to the carry ammo.

The range ammo is whatever 115/124 grain FMJ I have. I use a plastic container that holds 300 rounds and I just dump it in mixed up. It might be Geco, Speer, Remy, Federal, Magtec, S&B, Fiocci, etc.

This drives one of my friends nuts. He thinks I’m crazy doing this. Somehow, my time spent training is wasted. I tell him he’s wound way too tight.

I’m not looking for advice, just thought our opposing views it were an interesting topic. I may be proven wrong…but what say you who has an opinion?

 

[Hartkopf]

Sorry I’m with your friend on this one! I’m too OCD to have weak Rem green and white box ammo in the same magazine as Speer Lawman. Not saying it matters that much but I like at least all the ammo in each magazine to match. (I’m assuming you grab out of the container and everything that goes into your mags is mixed)

 

[Dirtybob]

How exactly is your training time wasted?
Agree some folks are wound too tight. If you really want to drive your friend insane, try mixing up his ammo lol

 

[Buzznrose]

Sorry I’m with your friend on this one! I’m too OCD to have weak Rem green and white box ammo in the same magazine as Speer Lawman. Not saying it matters that much but I like at least all the ammo in each magazine to match. (I’m assuming you grab out of the container and everything that goes into your mags is mixed)

Yes. I just dump it all together. It’s mixed.

 

[Buzznrose]

How exactly is your training time wasted?
Agree some folks are wound too tight. If you really want to drive your friend insane, try mixing up his ammo lol

LOL… I don’t mess around with other people’s guns or ammo.

 

[herrwalther]

I keep brands and types of ammo separate. That way if I have failures with say, Winchester White box, I know that is what probably caused the malfunction. I don't want to play guessing games, even with training ammo. I also prefer to have my training ammo in the same weight as my carry. If I carry 124gr +p, I would like to train with 124gr +p. That way, my point of impact on the target is close to where it should be with a hollow point. Depends on finding and affording ammo as similar as possible. Would I say your method is wasteful or useless? Nah. Just a different method from mine.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I load 147gr Federal HST in all my 9mm defense pistols (G19, G43, G48). I usually handload my training ammo (124gr FMJ @ 1190 fps). I don't notice any difference in recoil or POI between my training handloads and my factory defense ammo. I've taken several training courses with my handloads without any issues, and I'm usually one of the top shooters in the classes. I don't get too wound up over my training ammo. I inherited a bunch of 9mm ammo of various bullet weights and types when my father passed away. The stuff hits pretty much where I aim regardless of all the variables compared to my factory defense load.

 

[mcb]

All my training ammo is reloads.

 

[Buzznrose]

I don't get too wound up over my training ammo. I inherited a bunch of 9mm ammo of various bullet weights and types when my father passed away. The stuff hits pretty much where I aim regardless of all the variables compared to my factory defense load.

My thoughts as well.

 

[.38 Special]

My carry piece is an older S&W Model 19 in .357 Magnum. It has the reputation of not standing up to endless full power .357 Magnums, so the great majority of the ammunition it sees is a few hundred feet per second slower than my carry ammunition. This does result in an inch or so of difference on target. At realistic ranges and realistic targets I consider it inconsequential. I leave the sights adjusted for full power loads and let the chips fall, in practice and training, where they may.

 

[Palladan44]

Remanufactured is a no go for me(unless "remanufactured" by yours truly) No steel cases for me either, unless it's out of an AK.

I handload for my service calibers, use clean burning powder like WIN 231 so I have to clean less often. (I FOLLOW PUBLISHED DATA ALWAYS)
I like plated bullets b/c they're cheaper than jacketed and cleaner than lead.

I'm really amazed how dirty WWB and Fed Champion runs in my 9s and 45s. It's because they are not refined in the materials they use, and they are manufactured with low cost at the top of mind.

I've loaded up some handloads that simulate the recoil impulse of my 9mm +p Golden Sabres took a few tries to find the right powder.......Power Pistol was the one. Amazing how different the "bangs" are with different powders

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I'm not too picky about range ammo.

I've always shot 115g for range use and likewise SD ammo. I do like to keep the bullet weight the same and I've never had an issue with any brand shooting any different than another at SD ranges.

I've been using Sig VCrown 115's for SD for years with no issues. They don't make those anymore so if/when I go through my stash of those I'll be switching to some type of Federal "Versatile" HP ammo thats 115g. I picked up a few boxes of that last year just to have a little extra. It cycles fine in our handguns and hits just like every other 115g I've ever shot does.

As for range ammo I've shot just about everything under the sun. While I prefer brass cased ammo they all shoot the same from my experience.

 

[Old Dog]

I typically shoot 124 grain FMJs in 9mm during training (my issue, and off-duty carry, rounds are 124 gr JHP +P). I'll admit to shooting a lot of 115 grain FMJs as well at the range (just 'cause, you know, the "shortage"). In .45 ACP, I shoot 230 grain FMJs as my carry .45 round of choice is a 230 grain JHP.

No, I'm not too selective. Brand or casing material typically doesn't come into play.

It's only when shooting handguns for accuracy at any substantial distance (i.e.,50 yards or more) that I worry about the ammo I'm using. Then I'll exactly match my practice ammo with what I'm carrying.

 

[John Joseph]

I'm selective!
Ammo has to be accurate at training distances.
Ammo has to be reliable because you never know when it will have to stand in for defensive ammo.
Ammo has to have a decent projectile up front because ^^^.
Ammo has to be reloadable (durable brass, boxer primed) because when there are shortages, I want to be able to handload.
Ammo has to be affordable because I'm not being bankrolled by politicians

 

[alfsauve]

Typically, reloads for practice and factory for competition and EDC.

 

[jmorris]

Most of the ammunition I shoot are reloads, I suppose my carry ammunition is mostly reloads too.

I think dry firing is useful training though and your not actually shooting anything.

I think I would just focus on shooting accurately, faster and not worry about what someone else thinks about your technique. If, in your quest, you find shooting consistent ammunition is helpful towards your goal, then change.

If you are just playing, just have fun.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Well, in my opinion, shooting must above all be "fun". If it's not fun, people won't shoot. If they won't shoot, they won't achieve and maintain any kind of proficiency at all. If this is "fun" for you, so be it.

I really don't care about your mixing of ammunition. Is the ammunition you shoot reliable? Does it hit at point of aim for the distances you're shooting at? If so, then who really cares? The mix has virtually zero impact on your shooting/training.

The real question is "how does your chosen defensive ammunition perform compared to your target/range ammo?"

That, in my opinion, is the important factor. I'm a believer that the ammunition you practice with should have the same/very similar performance as your self defense ammunition. If they all hit at point of aim, great. If they all produce identical/similar felt recoil, awesome. Those factors are important in the ability to control your weapon and hit your intended target when you really need to in a self defense scenario.

Personally, if I were to "mix my range ammo" up for training purposes, I'd more likely consider mixing in a few dud rounds (no powder, no functional primer) so that the occasional "misfire" would happen on an unpredictable basis which would force me to practice that skillset.

 

[shoobe01]

...At ten yards, my 147 gr carry ammo hits a inch or two higher (off a rest) than most of my training/range ammo...

Weird. I'd not put up with that.

And I do not. Whenever possible I shoot 124gr (8g) training ammo, which VERY closely matches my 124 GDSP carry ammo, in all guns. Not just in POI, but in recoil, so I am getting better training. I think 115s and 147s are noticeably different from 124s so avoid them. I have done double blind studies on this (by accident!) bought some 147 gold dots by accident, and proofing the POI I immediately went "that's wrong" and stopped, found the box, whoops!

For range/training ammo I try to buy quality new stuff like Geco/Ruag but when not available will do any old thing. It SEEMS to me that 124s are pretty much always loaded the same. 115s are all over the place, so can vary a lot in velocity. I used to shoot mostly 115s for training but these differences and variability eventually bugged me so I stopped (but for one class at the peak of the recent panic, when I had to get pretty worrisome reman 115s, but they worked out, no stoppages much less blowing up my gun!).

 

[Seedy Character]

Love all the responses. All legit "for what you do and why"

When testing ammo, I use a bench and target. I am testing for function and accuracy.

When training, I use steel gongs and timer. Hits are the only thing that matters

The majority of traing ammo is my reloads. I do not seperate brass by manufacturer. My reloads are not "HOT". And identified by the color of the powder coat.
Hunting ammo is "HOT". Brass is new or once fired, seperated by manufacturer and identified by the bullet.
Defensive ammo is FACTORY Defensive ammo, but ALL ammo is capable of being used as defense.

To the OP: yes, your training is wasted. You are shooting 9mm in a Glock. Get a .45 1911 and quit wasting primers.












j/k
No time shooting is wasted. Have fun.

 

[Buzznrose]

Love all the responses. All legit "for what you do and why"

You are shooting 9mm in a Glock. Get a .45 1911 and quit wasting primers.

LOL!!!!! I love this answer!!!

 

[md7]

No, I’m not too picky on training ammo.

 

[FL-NC]

I am selective in the sense that the ammunition needs to fire and cycle properly during my training drills. Since my primary training pistol is a well worn Glock 17 that is a dedicated "range gun" (seldom if ever cleaned) having ammo that functions isn't really a challenge. I used to buy the cheapest steel cased ammo I could find by the case (I was very fond of the Winchester forged from Academy) back in the olden days when ammunition could be found at reasonable prices. Lately, most of my training has been with my S&W M&P 22- fortunately I recently acquired 2 large ammo cans filled to the top w/ loose 22 LR, so....

 

[lemaymiami]

Years and years ago the outfit I worked for (back in the revolver era for police work...) issued us the worst, cheapest reloaded ammo for range time (and qualification). More than one range session was more about working poor wadcutter rounds into the cylinder (then actually being able to close it...) than the downrange part... Very glad that was over long ago - but it did have one lasting effect for me... and that's simply wanting to keep a close eye on how one brand or another actually worked in my sidearms...

As a result I don't think I'd ever want to be shooting mixed brands or loads in any firearm... Sub standard or premium, if I start having any problems the first thing I'd want to do is identify what ammo was in use at the time - so that I can keep an eye on it the next time I'm using it - and if need be, remove from use.... I know that ammo problems are only one small part of a weapon's performance - but it's the easiest to identify if you don't mix up your cartridges...

All of this might be a non-issue for folks who make a point of only using the best (or at least high quality) ammo. For me though - with that long ago experience with really poor quality training ammo I'll keep mine separate if possible -and even go the point of adding a piece of masking tape to the base of carbine mags (30cal. carbine) so that I can tell at a glance what I'm loading into the piece - and then being able to note how it cycled, fired, etc.

 

[Rexster]

The only time I am concerned about consistent ammo, is when I am specifically shooting for accuracy, at paper, or very small targets, when differing POIs would matter.

This does not mean that I shoot low-quality garbage ammo.

 

[Old Dog]

The only time I am concerned about consistent ammo, is when I am specifically shooting for accuracy, at paper, or very small targets, when differing POIs would matter.

This does not mean that I shoot low-quality garbage ammo.

Yep. Same here.

I feel that an awful lot of folks just really over-think the issue. And these days, given the state of the ammunition supply in this country, we're all just gonna have to make do.