Travel to/through MA with Garand rifle?

[Frank Ettin]

How about this:

18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms....

That's part of the Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) and was touched upon in posts 5, 6, 9, and 14. It in general applies only if the firearm stays in your vehicle while passing through a State on a continuous journey through the State. If you're making stops or side trips in the State it won't protect you.

 

[Bill50]

You have to have an FOID (MA gun license) if you're stopping in MA. The federal transport laws only protect people traveling through states without stopping. As soon as a baggage handlers tell an airprort cop that you declared a firearm, you're done.

You'll have to spend 10s of thousands of dollars on lawyers to get that dismissed due to federal law

 

[Bill50]

Oh and state police and prosecutors only follow federal laws when you appeal to a fedeal court.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

List of airports in New Hampshire:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_in_New_Hampshire

Flying into Boston costs about half the cost to fly into Manchester. (about $850 vs about $1500) So that was never an option. I"m already wiping out most of my summer income on this trip.

 

[SharpDog]

Flying into Boston costs about half the cost to fly into Manchester. (about $850 vs about $1500) So that was never an option. I"m already wiping out most of my summer income on this trip.

Well, Legal costs can far outweigh what we're talking about here. Leave your gun at home.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Leave your gun at home.

That seems to pretty much be the thing doesn't it?

 

[highlander 5]

You don't want to get caught with a firearm in Ma without an FID or LTC bad juju. Have your local FFL contact an FFL near where your uncle lives and send the rifle that way. AFAIK Garands are not considered an assault weapon under Ma law. No flash hider,pistol grip,folding/collapsable stock or removable magazine.

 

[CapnMac]

Given the way things are run in Massachusetts these days, I wouldn't even try this with a non-firing solid resin dummy Garand.

There's no part of "vacation" that is improved by arrest, property seizure, criminal charges, and needing bail.

There is a strong possibility that I am jaded and cynical, too. 2¢ doesn't buy what it used to, either.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Given the way things are run in Massachusetts these days, I wouldn't even try this with a non-firing solid resin dummy Garand.

There's no part of "vacation" that is improved by arrest, property seizure, criminal charges, and needing bail.

There is a strong possibility that I am jaded and cynical, too. 2¢ doesn't buy what it used to, either.

I think you're right. Especially the part about property seizure. That Garand is incredibly well valued to me.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Maine is accessible by the sea.
And I suspect, Maine is accessible by Canada.
And as crazy as antigunners in Massachusetts seem to be, it might be worthwhile to explore accessing Maine via Canada, bypassing Massachusetts altogether. And I am only half-sarcastic in suggesting that. Explore all legal options.

 

[boom boom]

That is never an option, and I have no idea where people get this from. Yes, I know there is a law someplace that provides for this. Yes, I know people claim to have done it. I have tried it, many times, from post offices in different states. I have never, not one single time, found any employee of the post office, anywhere, at any level who would accept a firearm (long gun or hand gun) for delivery from me to me. I have never seen it happen. It's like a unicorn; supposedly, they exist, but I've never seen one. I eventually stopped trying.

It can be done--here is the U.S. Postal Regulations on the subject:
https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

One way if you want to ship via USPS, then coordinate through a local FFL that ships it (only way to do handguns via USPS btw) which contacts a receiving FFL in the state you want. Or, you can ship longarms via USPS to an FFL dealer in the state where you want to pick it up. And, reverse the process before returning home.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service

You can mail it to yourself c/o someone in the state--but they cannot open the package--which would constitute an illegal inter-state transfer I guess. If you note below, you must also be able to do so under state and/or local laws which requires research.

From hotlink above: USPS regulations

"432.3 Rifles and Shotguns

"Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing. The following conditions also apply:

1. Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when intended for delivery within the same state of mailing. These items must:
   1. Bear a “Return Service Requested” endorsement.
   2. Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.
2. A rifle or shotgun owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner‘s state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the other state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mailpieces must:
   1. Be addressed to the owner.
   2. Include the “in the care of” endorsement immediately preceding the name of the applicable temporary custodian.
   3. Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.
   4. Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery."

Otherwise, you can ship as a non licensee via UPS or Federal Express to an FFL dealer in NH and reverse the process before heading home.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-common-or-contract-carrier

It might be a bit expensive and cumbersome but how much is your liberty and peace of mind worth.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

It can be done--here is the U.S. Postal Regulations on the subject:
https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

One way if you want to ship via USPS, then coordinate through a local FFL that ships it (only way to do handguns via USPS btw) which contacts a receiving FFL in the state you want. Or, you can ship longarms via USPS to an FFL dealer in the state where you want to pick it up. And, reverse the process before returning home.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service

You can mail it to yourself c/o someone in the state--but they cannot open the package--which would constitute an illegal inter-state transfer I guess. If you note below, you must also be able to do so under state and/or local laws which requires research.

From hotlink above: USPS regulations

"432.3 Rifles and Shotguns

"Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing. The following conditions also apply:

1. Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when intended for delivery within the same state of mailing. These items must:
   1. Bear a “Return Service Requested” endorsement.
   2. Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.
2. A rifle or shotgun owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner‘s state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the other state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mailpieces must:
   1. Be addressed to the owner.
   2. Include the “in the care of” endorsement immediately preceding the name of the applicable temporary custodian.
   3. Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.
   4. Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery."

Otherwise, you can ship as a non licensee via UPS or Federal Express to an FFL dealer in NH and reverse the process before heading home.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-common-or-contract-carrier

It might be a bit expensive and cumbersome but how much is your liberty and peace of mind worth.

I have taken that whole excerpt you just posted to multiple post offices; I have never found a postal employee or supervisor who would accept my firearm. Yes, I know it's the law, but it in my own practical application, it doesn't seem to matter. They always just flat-out refuse. No matter what.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I swear you guys, I am the biggest dumb-a$$ on the planet.

This whole discussion is about me bringing my M1 to NH so my uncle can shoot it. My other uncle (my uncle's-and dad's-brother), who I'm also going to visit while there, has an FFL.

I don't know why I overlooked that. All I have to do is figure out the shipping costs and get the LGS to ship it to him, and then have him ship it back to my LGS.

Talk about over complicating the obvious.

(Of course, I'm going on the assumption that, unlike handguns, I, as a non-resident of NH, can legally take possession of a long gun from an FFL.)

 

[Frank Ettin]

....Of course, I'm going on the assumption that, unlike handguns, I, as a non-resident of NH, can legally take possession of a long gun from an FFL.....

See 18 USC 922(b)(3), emphasis added:

(b)It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—

(1)...

(2)...

(3) firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;...

I suspect that you'd be able to satisfy the condition for the delivery of a rifle to you to be legal under federal law. But I thing your uncle, even though he's doing a favor for family, will still be obligated as an FFL to adhere to the usual formalities such as recording the receipt and disposition of the rifle in his bound book and requiring you to complete a 4473.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I suspect that you'd be able to satisfy the condition for the delivery of a rifle to you to be legal under federal law. But I thing your uncle, even though he's doing a favor for family, will still be obligated as an FFL to adhere to the usual formalities such as recording the receipt and disposition of the rifle in his bound book and requiring you to complete a 4473.

I expected as much.

 

[GRIZ22]

You can ship the rifle to your uncle with the FFL. No need for a FFL to send it to him.

 

[rodregier]

It's been fairly well established that some of the NE states don't seem to recognize 18 U.S. Code § 926A
and have prosecuted and convicted persons transiting their specific states despite being in compliance with 926A :-(

Tread carefully in such places.

 

[TheVision]

It's like a unicorn; supposedly, they exist, but I've never seen one. I eventually stopped trying.

I have shipped my long arms, to and from vacation locations using USPS, "in care of" a number of times. I have used registered mail, but you are not required to do so.

The employees have sometimes questioned "Is this allowed?" but having the relevant rules printed out satisfied them. [I have removed the links to said USPS publication, as I now see that other posters have already replied with it.]

The BATFE also has a FAQ about it:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may...s-or-her-use-hunting-or-other-lawful-activity

May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out–of–State resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other than the owner may not open the package or take possession of the firearm.

 

[ChanceMcCall]

It's been fairly well established that some of the NE states don't seem to recognize 18 U.S. Code § 926A
and have prosecuted and convicted persons transiting their specific states despite being in compliance with 926A :-(

Tread carefully in such places.

This issue is a problem for everyone from elsewhere. Some of us have LEOSA permits to carry which no jurisdiction can outright deny, but they can make it very hard with other laws. In Hawaii, I have had to stop on every island and register both myself and the firearm and list all the places (hotels, etc) at which I will be staying overnight and what dates I will be staying there. Is this legal? Even the LEOSA attorney at the NRA isn't ready to say ignore their local laws. The same holds true for NYC where a bill of sale is required for each gun you possess and carry. Lots of retired federal agents and LEOs have been arrested and had their firearms seized over local laws. In some states, hollow points are illegal to own much less put it the gun. Las Vegas actually used to make LEOSA permit holders bring their guns to the police station, register them, and qualify with them before they were legal to carry. (I think, but am not sure, that has changed.)

That we need a national standard and preemption goes without saying, but that is going to be like free climbing a mountain.

 

[Ignition Override]

Aircraft diversions were caused on my flights by changing visibility, (below approach mins.), winds which required different runways and ridiculous air traffic metering. Even losing a section of enroute radar or a radio frequency. Too much unanticipated holding and you land sooner to have a safe amount of reserve fuel.

There are far too many risks dealing with airports in that area to consider taking any sort of gun, or even just the action.