Travelers insurance won't cover 'Assault Rifles'

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Which proves my point. If you're so poor you can afford to buy a $1000+ gun, but can barerly make rent, you can afford to forgo that gun purchase and pay the insurance on your very healthy stash of arms.

Your point is noted. I disagree with you conceptually; it is reality versus common sense. I don't have this "problem", but I know some that do. Wish I did in some ways. But I'd probably sell off some stuff in this example. Paying for insurance is like pouring money down a hole or posting bail through a bondsmen in a legal scenario.

It is about acquiring assets at reasonable risk.

I will use a comparison to make my point.... let's say you owned 1000 acres of land valued at $4-5K per acre. You paid $800 per acre years ago. The land is paid for, but there are still costs to own said land. Many landowners may be quite wealthy on paper, but would have a very hard time putting together $1000 at one time. The obvious response is to sell some land... but what if the landowner doesn't want to sell. He/she lives the life that they like but have very little money; cash flow is hence very poor but sufficient for their needs. The same comparison could be made with firearms. They're paid for. They have value. But you don't want to sell them to ease cash flow issues. Hence a $1600 insurance payment per year on top of other insurance payments may seem quite a waste of money. Depending on the firearms, you can easily get $50K worth of guns in one safe and that safe will run about what the annual insurance cost is. My suggestion is buy a safe and forget the insurance unless you have lots of cash on hand.
 
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I think his point is if you've accumulated the collection over several years...

If in a good year, you managed to spend $10,000 on guns, and still have plenty of money left over for everything you NEED to do, but then suddenly income decreases or expenses increase, insurance is still a nice thing to try to hold on to....even if you aren't still buying any guns at that time, your collection could still have become WORTH a good amount prior to the financial difficulties.
 
I bought a policy from Armscare, which has a relationship with the NRA. No papertrail of types, serial numbers, etc for individual guns valued less than $2500. Just a flat monetary policy.
 
Which company does AAA have you going through? I don't believe they sell insurance, though I could be wrong, I think they just shop for you and get you a discount.

AAA (or is CA, CSAA) does indeed sell insurance. i started with them when i was 18 and got my first car, had renter's insurance with them when i was a student and changed over to home owner's insurance when i bought my first home.

i've been with them since 1972...i can't be canceled, but they can raise my rates
 
Don't give these people the chance to call semi automatic guns assault weapons. I use a Remington 7400 30-06 rifle for deer hunting, which could be called an assault rifle if a bigger clip is added to it. Please don't put words in people's minds.
 
Find a local independent insurance agent who has several companies. They can insure your firearms. The real problem is that the average person has no idea what they have, don't have and need when it comes to insurance coverage.
You might try Auto-Owners Insurance Company. They are out of Michigan. I have my insurance there with no problem covering my guns. Yes you will have to give serial numbers and appraisals.
If you own a gun, the biggest problem you have is liability. You should have an Umbrella policy. - Bet Travelers didn't tell you that either! Almost every direct sales call company is 1-800-dial an idiot. Find a local guy you know to help you out.
All of that being said, get a good safe. It won't burn, somebody can't walk off with it, and it makes a nice piece of furniture.
 
quoted from a "Farm" company Renters policy
"The limit for each numbered group is the total limit for any one loss for all property in that group.
...
8. $1,000 on theft of firearms."

Firearms is not defined by the policy, so it would cover anything considered a firearm, unless it is illegal.

This is from a "full coverage" type home owners policy:
"3. Firearms.
$3,000 limit on theft of firearms. This includes their scopes or mounts whether attached or not, and all other firearm related equipment and ammunition."

**Note the word theft. If damage is caused by any other type of covered loss (fire, water, etc) then the limit does not apply.

-> I'm an adjuster :neener:
 
You could beat this in court, because an "assault rifle" has no legal definition. The "underwriter" is almost certainly some 20 something girl who knows NOTHING about firearms but is checking a list she has. It probably does not contain a list of prohibited guns (although it may). These girls (and guys sometimes, but usually women) will always play it safe. If it says "assault rifle" it doesn't matter that it is a made up phrase that has crept into the public vocabulary. I own an insurance brokerage, and I deal with many of these folks every day. I can tell you that 1) you would expect the claim to be denied and 2) you could collect by going to court. Who needs that kind of hassle? However, you can be a change agent. Before you go to another company, write a nice, polite letter to the head of underwriting, the head of sales, and the president of the company. Don't insult, berate, threaten or demean them, but tell them that you are disappointed that they have chosen to insert vague, legally imprecise and legally unsupportable language into their contracts re: "assault rifles." Tell them the correct LEGAL usage of that term means a fully automatic machine gun type rifle, and not just something that looks frightening to the uninitiated. Tell them there are thousands semi automatic rifles legally sold to shooting enthusiasts around the nation who use them legally, responsibly, and carefully for hunting, target and competitive events. It is not inappropriate to state that most owners of semiauto rifles take great pains to keep them secured and locked away, so that the theft rate is LOW from house breakins. Mention that we/you have them secured in safes almost every time. Tell them you are disappointed that they APPEAR to have allowed a shrill, uninformed, and irresponsible element of society to cause them to shun a huge and growing element in our society, and that those people are extremely politically and socially sensitive. If they knew Travelers had such a policy they would move their homeowners/fire policies to other, more reasonable companies immediately. Then I would add something like this. "I wanted to give you the opportunity to clarify Travelers' position on this issue. After all, in some states, the insurance commissioner does not even allow companies to disallow items considered distasteful to the religious, racial, social or political predilections of the company employees, so this may -in fact- be an illegal practice. Before I make a statement in numerous electronic and print forums (including the National Rifle Association, which has an impressive financial and political clout), I just thought it fair to ask if this might be the false statement of an uninformed underwriting clerk who confuses automatic weapons with legal items that can be purchased with no more than a driver's license and a criminal background check in many states. Please clarify Traveler's position on so called "assault rifles," for me, if you would be so kind. I would love to do business with your company and have good and positive things to say about it."

Send them something like that, saying you await their response. You MAY be a change agent. I have seen things like that happen. There is idiotic hostility to guns among the ranks of all big corporate insurance companies (far less so if you find a small local company with no affiliation with the east coast, in my experience), but NEVER attribute to evil and maliciousness what you can chalk up to bureaucratic stupidity and ineptness. You might just help them out, believe it or not.

My first post here. Sorry to write a book.
 
This thread is actually "reading out loud" in my head...I've learned alot :p
 
It is not only about insuring your firearms. At one time one company (I will not name it since I don't know if the rule is still in effect) would not pay off on any policy if the claimant owned a gun of any kind. And they didn't notify the policy holder in advance except by a note on the policy that other restrictions may apply.

So a guy's half-million dollar house burns down, and they find he had a shotgun, they just refuse to pay. The name of the game with some insurance companies is to use any excuse to avoid paying out money. If they actually paid, the CEO might not get his $20 million bonus that year.

Jim
 
At one time one company (I will not name it since I don't know if the rule is still in effect) would not pay off on any policy if the claimant owned a gun of any kind
I find this hard to believe. Do you have any information cites this?

And they didn't notify the policy holder in advance except by a note on the policy that other restrictions may apply.
Again, I'd sure like to see proof of this.
 
Insurance companies write policies to cover, and pay, certain things and calculate rates accordingly. Unfortunately, some people think insurance policies cover absolutely everything under the sun. Also, unfortunately, some bleading heart, liberal, nimcompoop judges agree. Quite frankly, I think some of the preceeding posts are BS. I worked in the claim dept. for State Farm for over 32 years [now retired] and I know a bit about what I'm talking about. I was never asked, or told not to pay a legitimate claim. In fact, we gave the benefit if doubt to the policyholder. I find the idea that an insurance co. would deny a fire claim because of owning a particular gun as nonsense--unless the policyholder lied about something on the application that was material to the risk. Few businesses would succeed if they cheated their customers. If some company doesn't want to insure a particular item then you are free to go elsewhere. If insurance companies where to insure everything under the sun with a single homowner's policy none of us would be able to afford it. It's the same as auto companies. Some give a better or worse warranty, and charge accordingly for their product.
 
There is a low cap on firearms on every general homeowner policy I looked at when I was last buying insurance. Best thing to do would be get a rider on your homeowners, or go through one of the smaller companies that specializes in collections of things, etc.

If you've got $100k in firearms and can't easily afford $1600 to insure them, you've got serious personal finance issues in general... I don't know where you are going to insure $100k worth of anything, other than house itself, for less than that.
 
If you've got $100k in firearms and can't easily afford $1600 to insure them, you've got serious personal finance issues in general...

Why is that? I ask this because I believe there are quite a few folks on this forum that have way more than $100K value in firearms alone and don't necessarily have an extra $1600 to pour down the toilet every year on firearm insurance.

I don't know where you are going to insure $100k worth of anything, other than house itself, for less than that.

That is a good point. My homeowners policy has way more than 100K for contents on it and it runs less than $1000 per year in addition to the house.

I bring all of this up because it is easy to say... go through your home owners insurance company for collectables. Collectables include things like stamp collections, art work, guns, Coca Cola materials, catalogs, coin collections, and so forth to name a few. What about ammunition for those that have a substantial cache?

This thread has made me curious. Think I'll contact the NRA affliated insurance company and see what they say.

By the way, I wish I had $100K in firearm value. But it is a good figure to work from. It sounds like a lot, but anyone who buys 10 quality firearms a year for 15 to 20 years and has not sold them has accumulated more than 100K in firearm value.
 
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If you have spent 100K on firearms but can't afford the insurance (along with who knows what else), then you can't really afford 100K in firearms. Just like a car, house, or anything else... if you can't afford the insurance, you can't afford it. Look into a less expensive item(s) on which you can afford the upkeep...

"Poor down the toilet"? Sure, if you don't mind being out $100K if someone breaks in and carts them off, then be my guest and don't pour that money down the toilet...
 
The guy you got on the phone asked his boss, who obviously cares more about covering his butt than helping his customers.

If they asked me if I had assualt weapons, I would say no. I do not in fact own any Sturmgewehrs. Assualt rifle is a ficticious term invented by the anti-gun lobby. The only law (incorrectly) defining assault rifles expired in 2004. I do not nor will I own any assault rifles.

As suggested above, if you want 'over and above' protection for your guns, JOIN THE NRA.
 
Never had a problem with State Farm. Machine guns and suppressors are covered under the policy and they had no problem with it.
 
It is not only about insuring your firearms. At one time one company (I will not name it since I don't know if the rule is still in effect) would not pay off on any policy if the claimant owned a gun of any kind. And they didn't notify the policy holder in advance except by a note on the policy that other restrictions may apply.

So a guy's half-million dollar house burns down, and they find he had a shotgun, they just refuse to pay. The name of the game with some insurance companies is to use any excuse to avoid paying out money. If they actually paid, the CEO might not get his $20 million bonus that year.

Jim
I call a Penn and Teller on this one.
 
I bet Travellers actuall does cover your AR15. Look at their actual policy and you'll probably find coverage for guns, subject to a deductible, that doesn't not exclude any specific type of firearm. What you heard was an Underwriting position. I suspect they're not interested in "scheduling" your firearms. That is, listing them as "valuable articles" separate from your general contents coverage. This is not unusual as valuable articles coverage is meant for belongings that are not subject to normal use. For instance, Travellers may be willing to insure your collection of antique firearms, but not the ones you use in the field. That said, all of your guns may be covered under general contents anyway. Check the contract.
 
It is not only about insuring your firearms. At one time one company (I will not name it since I don't know if the rule is still in effect) would not pay off on any policy if the claimant owned a gun of any kind. And they didn't notify the policy holder in advance except by a note on the policy that other restrictions may apply.

So a guy's half-million dollar house burns down, and they find he had a shotgun, they just refuse to pay. The name of the game with some insurance companies is to use any excuse to avoid paying out money. If they actually paid, the CEO might not get his $20 million bonus that year.

Jim ]

Jim, this is FUD! I worked in the Personal Insurance industry for nearly 20 years and I can tell you that you are wrong. There is no way, not in ANY state, that a company could deny a claim because someone owned a firearm unless that was SPECIFICALLY spelled out in the exclusions section of the contract. Even then, they could not deny a claim that had nothing to do with the firearm. No frickin' way.

Lastly, what's wrong with a $20million bonus? If a CEO gets that, the company should of had a GREAT year. So what? Do you not think the market should reward those that outperform expectations? Should the market not determine who get's paid what? If you don't like was a CEO gets paid, prove that you can do the job for less or get another insurance carrier.

From the imortal words in The Godfather..."We are not Communists". I hope you are not either.
 
It is not only about insuring your firearms. At one time one company (I will not name it since I don't know if the rule is still in effect) would not pay off on any policy if the claimant owned a gun of any kind. And they didn't notify the policy holder in advance except by a note on the policy that other restrictions may apply.

So a guy's half-million dollar house burns down, and they find he had a shotgun, they just refuse to pay. The name of the game with some insurance companies is to use any excuse to avoid paying out money. If they actually paid, the CEO might not get his $20 million bonus that year.

It seems that just as the non-gunners have a lot of incorrect perceptions about guns, so do non-insurers have a lot of misinformation about how insurance companies work. Every insurance contract has to be approved by the state's department of insurance before it can be sold. There is no way a contract containing unspecified "other restrictions" would be approved in any state.

Also, the majority of property & casualty insurers are mutual companies. That means the company is owned entirely by the policyholders. The policyholders elect the board of directors who choose the CEO. So if you don't like your CEO getting paid that much, elect a new board. If he's doing his job and keeping your premium rates down, though, I'd suggest he might deserve a nice bonus.
 
Paying for insurance is like pouring money down a hole

Right, until you need it.

Your advice is to spend money on a safe. What about a fire? I've seen pictures of guns that were in a fire rated safe. At least pictures of what was left of them. They were a total loss.

So the guy who had $100,000 in real value that didn't have insurance now has $0 value.

Insurance is a pain to pay, and seems totally worthless for the 7 years you drive without an accident or 15 years you go without a burglary or 40 years you go without a fire. But when those things happen, you are sure glad you've been paying your premiums.
 
Hello all. Sorry for jumping in on your discussion but we get alerts whenever our company is mentioned in a blog (www.collectinsure.com). We insure all types of guns (no discrimination here). In fact my husband has his guns insured with us which includes an "assault" rifle. Here are some quotes to get an idea of cost (they may vary very slightly by state):

$10,000 = $71
$25,000 = $165
$50,000 = $325
$75,000 = $475
$100,000 = $616

We also offer a 5% discount off the first term premium for member based groups. Hopefully I have not broken any major rules in providing this information but it seemed relevant to the discussion.
 
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