Tribune Calls to Repeal 2nd Amendment

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charon

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I can't say I'm surprised. The hacks on the editorial board have long attacked the 2nd and the bitterness is simply flowing out now. I wonder if the new corporate, no-nonsense ownership appreciates such a divisive editorial position? Have to write a letter to the bossman. Hope we find out Zell's views soon.

Repeal the 2nd Amendment

No, we don’t suppose that’s going to happen any time soon. But it should.

The 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is evidence that, while the founding fathers were brilliant men, they could have used an editor.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

If the founders had limited themselves to the final 14 words, the amendment would have been an unambiguous declaration of the right to possess firearms. But they didn’t and it isn’t. The amendment was intended to protect the authority of the states to organize militias. The inartful wording has left the amendment open to public debate for more than 200 years. But in its last major decision on gun rights, in 1939, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously found that that was the correct interpretation.

On Tuesday, five members of the court edited the 2nd Amendment. In essence, they said: Scratch the preamble, only 14 words count. (Click here to read the full decision)

In doing so, they have curtailed the power of the legislatures and the city councils to protect their citizens.

The majority opinion in the 5-4 decision to overturn a Washington, D.C., ban on handgun possession goes to great lengths to parse the words of the 2nd Amendment. The opinion, written by Justice Antonin Scalia, spends 11 1/2 pages just on the meaning of the words "keep and bear arms."

But as Justice John Paul Stevens wrote in a compelling dissent, the five justices in the majority found no new evidence that the 2nd Amendment was intended to limit the power of government to regulate the use of firearms. They found no new evidence to overturn decades of court precedent.

They have claimed, Stevens wrote, "a far more active judicial role in making vitally important national policy decisions than was envisioned at any time in the 18th, 19th, or 20th centuries."

It’s a relief that the majority didn’t go further in its policy-making on gun control.

The majority opinion states that the D.C. handgun ban and a requirement for trigger locks violate the 2nd Amendment. By virtue of this decision, Chicago’s 1982 ban on handguns is not likely to survive a court challenge. A lawsuit seeking to overturn the Chicago ordinance was filed on Thursday by the Illinois State Rifle Association.

The majority, though, did state that the right under the 2nd Amendment "is not unlimited." So what does that mean? The majority left room for state and local governments to restrict the carrying of concealed weapons in public, to prohibit weapons in "sensitive places such as schools and government buildings," and to regulate the sale of firearms. The majority allowed room for the prohibition of "dangerous and unusual weapons." It did not stipulate what weapons are not "dangerous."

Lower courts are going to be mighty busy figuring out all of this.

We can argue about the effectiveness of municipal handgun bans such as those in Washington and Chicago. They have, at best, had limited impact. People don’t have to go far beyond the city borders to buy a weapon that’s prohibited within the city. (Click here for gun-related crime statistics)

But neither are these laws overly restrictive. Citizens have had the right to protect themselves in their homes with other weapons, such as shotguns.

Some view this court decision as an affirmation of individual rights. But the damage in this ruling is that it takes a significant public policy issue out of the hands of citizens. The people of Washington no longer have the authority to decide that, as a matter of public safety, they will prohibit handgun possession within their borders.

Chicago and the nation saw a decline in gun violence over the last decade or so, but recent news has been ominous. The murder rate in Chicago has risen 13 percent this year. Guns are still the weapon of choice for mayhem in the U.S. About 68 percent of all murders in 2006 were committed with a firearms, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.

Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Yes, it’s an anachronism.

We won’t repeal the amendment, but at least we can have that debate.

Want to debate whether crime-staggered cities should prohibit the possession of handguns? The Supreme Court has just said, forget about it.
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/vox_pop/2008/06/repeal-the-2nd.html

Here was my e-comment in response:

This editorial board reflects a staggering lack of diversity. Sure, they have all of the colors right, and the genders but with perhaps one or two exceptions (that obviously have no voice in such editorials) they do not reflect the full cultural makeup of their readers. Not only the readers downstate, but in the suburbs and the city itself.

This editorial only reinforces the obvious, that the board lacks any Constitutional or historical awareness on this issue. Even highly regarded liberal Constitutional Scholar Lawrence Tribe disagrees with their view. With Miller, for example, the Defense didn't even show up for the trial. So that was a quality judgment? And, as has been pointed out Miller was hardly the slam dunk the board suggests for collective rights.

Another example of bias. The board has regularly called for semi-automatic rifle bans yet never actually report that less than 3 percent of all homicides are committed by ANY type of rifle. The last time, as I recall, the editorial had virtually a a cut and paste from the Brady Center Web site -- bullet point for bullet point. Great, thoughtful, balanced research behind that opinion.

My family is down to the Sunday paper, and after this piece of editorial trash that will be gone as well.

I was PO'ed at first, but I'm actually starting to feel a bit amused now at their discomfort. I hope we have a really big turn out for the rally on the Friday July 11th at the Thompson center (11:00 am). Lets make them sad and bitter again.
 
NOW THEREFORE, In the interest of brotherly love, peace, friendship, self-promotion, political grandstanding, and all that, I TALIV, Prince and Grand Master of the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of St Adrian of Nicomedia, Patron saint of Arms Dealers, of Cookeville, of Algood and of Baxter, Most Humble Guardian of the Poor of Jesus Christ, Do hereby Proclaim:

you should have proposed repealing the 1st's protection for freedom of the press in light of all the damage poor reporting has done.
 
What do these people think they need as a militia? A bunch more over-payed, under-educated, low intellect government officials?
 
The Turner Diaries has killed more people than my AK-74. Then there's the issue of David Cho's multimedia press kit sent to NBC. What hypocrites. What frauds.
 
And this same Chicago Tribune ,who couldn't get it right in 1948(Dewey Defeats Truman)was once America's most Conservative big city newspaper under Robert McCormack.
Now they're at the other end of the ideological spectrum,but being Chicago based ,they still can't get anything right.
Next to the Cubs,they're Chi-towns biggest losers...only not so lovable.
 
To be fair, they are probably under a bit of stress right now. Zell has promised to cut 500 edit pages out of the whole tribune enterprise each day which allows cuts in reporters. Zell noted that some reporters are much more productive than others, and that the "dead weight" will be cut :)

I bet Zell is the type of guy who would like to see at least balance so as not to PO half of your readership on this and other less progressive issues the board addresses.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chicago-tribune-co-newsprint-cuts-jun05,0,6652934.story

I work in publishing, B2B, and it's a real tight thing these days, but I can't feel sorry for these hacks. My readers are experts on what we write about so I don't have the luxury of sloppy, biased, emotion and opinion driven news and editorials.

In addition, he said, the productivity of the reporting staffs at Tribune's smaller dailies is much higher -- in terms of sheer output -- than at larger papers such as the company's big Los Angeles Times paper.

LOL! I bet the quality is much higher as well.
 
I found far too many factual errors in that editorial to bother writing them down. The author needs to familiarize himself with dc law and read the decision again.

I would appreciate intellectual honesty from anti's if they would just go "okay the 2nd amendment is an individual right. we hate it. we're not going to try to pull a fast one and suggest its really not, but we think its time to amend the constitution."
 
Just another example of why my wife and I will never set foot in Chicago again, let alone spend a damn dime on ANYTHING that comes from Chicago.

We used to have to do business there, due to our positions. Now we're (semi) retired and we can do as we please.

And we choose to have zilcho to do with Chicago.

Not too keen on the whole state of Illinois for that matter, what with their stupid gun laws. . .

Hopefully this court decision will give the pro-gun, pro-American legion some ammo to do away with the restrictive crap that passes for "law" in the Land of Lincoln.

Jeff
 
In essence, they said: Scratch the preamble, only 14 words count. (Click here to read the full decision)
In doing so, they have curtailed the power of the legislatures and the city councils to protect their citizens.

[sincerity] Oh. I knew there had to be a reason Chicago is one of the safest cities in the country. [/sincerity]
 
We should call for a repeal the 1st and 3rd amendment to only those who don't attempt to repeal other amendments.............
 
[article] ... If the founders had limited themselves to the final 14 words, the amendment would have been an unambiguous declaration of the right to possess firearms. But they didn’t and it isn’t. The amendment was intended to protect the authority of the states to organize militias....

Not to protect the authority of the states to organize anything. But rather the 2nd highlights the fact that militia are necessary to keep the state free. It is merely phrased in a 1700s manner. And in other words,

"Hey, by the way; militias are a good idea to maintain a free state! ... [Ahem] The Right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Note: it is not worded "we hereby grant the right". Or "We hereby do create the right that from henceforth ... ". No, it refers to the right that was already in existance and recognized.

Otherwise, the first time it was read for ratification, everyone should have said;

"Wait! Say that again? What "right to keep and bear arms" does this refer to"??

--------------------------------

http://searchronpaul.com
http://ussliberty.org/oldindex.html
http://www.gtr5.com
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember having read it countless times on these boards...isn't it clear enough what was meant in the Second Amendment in the Federalist Papers, especially in light of the language differences between that era and now? Clearly, the Chicago Tribune has said "in essence, scratch" what was clearly outlined in the pages written by the authors of the Bill of Rights where they did describe their line of thinking.

Again, correct me if I am wrong...I have not read the Federalist Papers since high school and I truthfully don't remember any of it. I am going off of what others have said on these boards.
 
Repeal the Second?

I suppose that they NEVER read the documents and publications of the Founding Fathers. Only an arrogant, agenda-driven, ignorant twit would be confused as to its meaning if they actually tried to approach this with ANY amount of integrity.


All I can say is....


Repeal the Second?


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-- John
 

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For seed and others who wish to peruse "The Federalist Papers" online...

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed.htm

If the 2nd Amendment is giving the Tribune so much trouble parsing the language, imagine them trying to actually understand the following (taken from Federalist 29)
"But though the scheme of disciplining the whole nation must be abandoned as mischievous or impracticable; yet it is a matter of the utmost importance that a well-digested plan should, as soon as possible, be adopted for the proper establishment of the militia. The attention of the government ought particularly to be directed to the formation of a select corps of moderate extent, upon such principles as will really fit them for service in case of need. By thus circumscribing the plan, it will be possible to have an excellent body of well-trained militia, ready to take the field whenever the defense of the State shall require it. This will not only lessen the call for military establishments, but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.''
Why... it's as though Publius was speaking a whole different language back in the day and I'm sure and certain that the members of The Chicago Tribune and their ilk would claim that the above is just... wrong... and has no place in our national interests at this time. ;)
 
A can of worms is right -

We won’t repeal the amendment, but at least we can have that debate.
And we can have that debate because of the 1st. How about we repeal that also? Just because our founding fathers found a value in free speech back in the 1700's doesn't mean it's still a good idea.
 
Again, correct me if I am wrong...I have not read the Federalist Papers since high school and I truthfully don't remember any of it. I am going off of what others have said on these boards.


It should be noted that there other sources of the Founding Fathers intent clarified that include personal writings, letters among themselves, and other publications.

While the Federalist Papers are a cornerstone of the process of creating this country, they are not alone in establishing the mindset of our Founders.


Hence I say again that only a twit with an agenda feigns confusion as to what the Founding Fathers were thinking. Some were quite vocal on the matter.


I find it amazing how ignorant anti's can become on history when it comes to an issue they don't WANT to objectively explore, and how insightful they become when something pushes THEIR agenda.



-- John
 
I would expect no different opinion from the Chicago Tribune. Just maybe, if they presented both viewpoints equally their subscriptions would increase. I don't mind a liberal viewpoint. But I don't like it as the only viewpoint.
 
Some view this court decision as an affirmation of individual rights. But the damage in this ruling is that it takes a significant public policy issue out of the hands of citizens. The people of Washington no longer have the authority to decide that, as a matter of public safety, they will prohibit handgun possession within their borders.

From this I am to believe that at the Chicago gun laws were initiated and voted on by "the people" ? Or is the truth that a small group of elite have decided for the people what's best for them ?

As has been said by others , a quick perusal of actual history would put the argument to rest . But, that would take a little time and effort , and intellectual honesty .

Lol , I wonder how they would try to get around Maines' RKBA amendment .

Section 16. To keep and bear arms. Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned.
 
The only thing ANY newspaper is good for now is to use a couple wads to start my charcoal chimney. They'll all be looking for new jobs in the near future.
 
It's Chicago. They probably want to repeal the 13th Amendment as well.

They ought to take down the "Welcome to Chicago" sign and replace it with "Welcome to Mordor".
 
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