Triple 7 questions

[Jaymo]

First, what is the max safe charge of 777 in an ROA? The ROA is going to be my backup gun for hog hunting. The range will be close, so I need power with SD/hunting accuracy, not target grade accuracy. It's purely to keep me from having to practice tree climbing.
Projectiles for the ROA will be RB and the Lee RN ROA conical.

Second, when loading 777 in pistol and rifle cartridges, do I just fill the case with it and seat the bullet?
The cartridges I want to load with it are as follows:
.32 S&W Long/.32 H&R in a Ruger Single Six .32 H&R

.45 Colt in an EAA Big Bore Bounty Hunter, American Derringer #1, Taurus Judge(Maybe), and a single shot .45/.410 pistol (Argentine Comanche)

.44 Special in a brand new Ruger Blackhawk Flattop, Ruger Redhawk .44 Mag, Taurus 44 .44 mag, and Charter Bulldog .44 Spl.

.44 mag in the above .44 mags, plus a Marlin 1894P (year 2000 production) lever action rifle.

.38 special in a Ruger Speed Six .38, GP100 .357, Dan Wesson .357, and Taurus 85 .38 special.

.357 mag in the above GP100 and DW.

.45 ACP (for grins) out of an ATI 1911.

.444 Marlin in a Marlin 444 (year 2000 vintage)

.303 Brit in a 1954 #4 Mk2 (bought unissued)

Possibly even 7.62x39 in an SKS.

Perhaps 6.5x55 in a Swedish Mauser.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Why??

 

[rodwha]

I cannot speak for any of the cartridges, but your Old Army can take a full cylinder of it. Their manual even states it can handle a full cylinder of 4F.

I, too, plan on using mine for hunting, and bought some of Kaido's custom 240 grn bullets to use. In the tests done by Duelist they penetrated much better than RB and conicals. He also has some 255 grn bullets. Check out his videos.

I tried to put 40 grns of 3F 777 behind a 240 grn bullet, but ended up having to use my knife to shave it down a bit. 35 grns worked though.

 

[Jaymo]

Why? I dunno. Just 'cuz, I s'pose. I want to load BP in some of those same cartridges.
777 will be easier to clean, and is more powerful.

Where can I get the Kaido bullets?

 

[rodwha]

Here is his e-mail:
[email protected]

 

[rodwha]

If you are using a stock cylinder don't use 35 grns of 777 with the 240 grn bullet. I found I could't fully seat it and had to cut the nose of it off with my knife.
30 grns had a fairly stout recoil, more than I anticipated. Much more than 40 grns and a RB.

 

[Gatofeo]

777 easier to clean?
Whether black powder or Hodgdon 777 black powder substitute, both require a water-based cleaner to remove all fouling effectively.
Their fouling is not soluble in oil-based solvents.

As for wondering what charges to use, ask the manufacturer. Hodgdon has a website with recommendations. You may also contact Hodgdon.
Hodgdon 777 is more powerful than black powder, loaded equal volume. It generates pressures higher than black powder, all things being equal (powder charge, projectile, wad, patch, seating pressure, cap, etc.).
It is always best to directly contact the manufacturer of a propellant, rather than a message board, because the manufacturer almost always has a ballistics lab that can measure pressures and anticipate problems.
Asking message boards is risky; very few have access to instruments to measure pressure. A significant number have little common sense or exercise caution, believing that if a firearm does NOT blow up within a few shots, the load is safe.
I've been reloading ammunition since 1970, and shooting black powder since 1971. I've always erred on the side of caution and never strained or damaged a rifle, pistol or shotgun with smokeless or black powder.
Contact Hodgdon with your questions. Those without ballitics labs can only guess.

 

[rodwha]

I have contacted Hogdgon's before without an answer.

 

[Jaymo]

Gatofeo, you have been reloading as long as I've been alive, and shooting black powder almost as long as I've been alive. As always, I defer to your knowledge and experience.
I've only been reloading since 1991 or 1992.
Only been shooting BP since 2008. You obviously have worlds more experience and knowledge on the subjects than I do. I have no problem admitting that.

15% more powerful than Holy Black is, obviously a huge increase in a black powder gun.
In my modern smokeless abomination cartridge guns, it's anemic compared to max or near max smokeless loads.
I will contact Hogdon and keep my fingers crossed. Maybe I can wrestle some info from them. Maybe I'll get hold of the ballistician who's bored and wants to do some testing "just cuz".
I've contacted Dupli Color and Bondo before and found their tech departments to be very helpful, especially considering my questions were concerning uses of their products that were outside the realm of the normal usage listed on the can/box.
I think they were just happy to have a chance to answer some "outside the box" type questions.
The tech department guys are people too, and their jobs get boring, just like ours.
I, for one, love it when a customer asks me a question that is way out in left field, compared to most of the questions I get asked.

I wonder what 30-35 grains of 4f Goex BP and a 240 grain Kaido bullet would do, power wise.
I assume, about the same as the original .45 Colt BP loads.

 

[highlander 5]

I've used 40+ grains of 3 F in a Claasicballistix cylinder with no ill affects. Friend of mine with the standard cylinder has used 40 grs 3F. I use a reloading arbor press from Dick Dastardly to load my ROA.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I have often wondered how my .303 would do with 777. Ain't no more corrosive than surplus ammo and a breeze to clean.

 

[Jaymo]

I just figured, since the .303 started out as a BP round, I could load it with 777 for grins.
I thought about loading a couple of rounds with BP, and take it to a local range that I despise.
I could shoot a bunch of smokeless ammo, and then pop off the BP rounds as my last rounds. Give 'em something to remember me by.
Even better, I could slip a round or two of it into my buddy's range bag when we go.
That way, he's the one who fouls the air with sweet sulfur.

 

[rodwha]

"I could slip a round or two of it into my buddy's range bag"
Now that would be too funny!

 

[mykeal]

Messin' with somebody else's gun gear is bad form.

 

[Jaymo]

I know, mykeal. But, it's not like I'm doing something dangerous. It's not like I'm loading a heavy bullet with a fast powder, or loading a round with silver powder from firecrackers.
Either one of those would be bad news, and illegal.
I'm just talking about making his gun smoke a bit.
The particular friend would find it funny.

Besides, I never got back at him for accidentally shooting out my car window, 18 years ago.
Never felt a need to. But it would be funny to see the look on his face when smoke boils out of his SMLE muzzle.

 

[Busyhands94]

Yesterday when I was shooting trap I brought along a few BP loaded shotgun shells, I used Remington Gun Club hulls, homemade wads, and Goex black powder.
When my friend had a misfire I handed him one of the BP shotshells, he used it and broke the clay, then busted up laughing! It was funny!

For .32 S&W just use a full case minus the seating depth of the bullet, a .32 S&W short would work just fine as a measure. Of course you could just use a powder flask and eyeball it, that would work too if these are plinking rounds. For serious target work and hunting I'd suggest measuring it though.

For an ROA a full cylinder of Triple Seven should do just fine. From what I heard they tested the ROA with Bullseye or Unique, can't remember which one but it was smokeless. I strongly suggest you do not do that.