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Trouble in AR-ville
- Thread starter b7tac
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Not to insult you, but when I got my first pmag, I found that I got the same result because I was loading it incorrectly. I was trying to load it like a 45 mag, sliding the cart. In from the front. Place the round directly over the feed lips and press down with the cartridge all the way to the posterior. Otherwise the stagger of the rounds gets off, and after a few rounds this way it won't feed worth a darn.
Hope it's something easy like this...
I didn't know this. Thank you for the tip.
Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk
I'm going to suggest the better way to load is lock the bolt to the rear - that's why the release is located for easy use with the off hand. Insert mag with no carrier pressure, then release with full spring pressure. My issue rifles never failed to chamber, and it duplicates exactly the same motion needed swapping mags - the bolt is back then, too.
On the other hand, I've seen numerous failure to feed when simply releasing the charging handle - which likely meant the mag was inserted against carrier pressure. First, mags don't always seat doing that, and the carrier just knocks it down and chambers nothing. Second, regardless of how well it's done, once in a while it gets shortstroked.
It might be OCD, but using the first method eliminates a lot of human error, and that's what we should strive to do, practice until we can't get it wrong. A method of loading that is the same regardless of coming out of the gun case or out of ammo nets more consistency.
On the other hand, I've seen numerous failure to feed when simply releasing the charging handle - which likely meant the mag was inserted against carrier pressure. First, mags don't always seat doing that, and the carrier just knocks it down and chambers nothing. Second, regardless of how well it's done, once in a while it gets shortstroked.
It might be OCD, but using the first method eliminates a lot of human error, and that's what we should strive to do, practice until we can't get it wrong. A method of loading that is the same regardless of coming out of the gun case or out of ammo nets more consistency.
sansone
Member
^^ what he said
dprice3844444
member
first thing you need to do is pull the bolt carrier out,take it apart and make sure they put the enhanced spring/rubber set up in the extractor.if just the rubber and spring,the extractor is not popping the shell out.should be 3 pieces,spring,nylon thing fits in the bottom of the spring,and an oring that fits over the spring.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24635/Product/AR_15_M16_EXTRACTOR_UPGRADE_KIT
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24635/Product/AR_15_M16_EXTRACTOR_UPGRADE_KIT
Z-Michigan
Member
I agree with Tony, I really doubt that the presence of the Crane O-ring matters for this issue.
Although I previously said gas system, after reading others I think that the feed path (receiver, barrel extension) is worth a look. If that's the issue it will just be going back to Spike's anyway.
Although I previously said gas system, after reading others I think that the feed path (receiver, barrel extension) is worth a look. If that's the issue it will just be going back to Spike's anyway.
againstthagrane
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are you sure it's not a dpms?
Update***
I got my AR out in the woods today and shot about 200 rounds without and inkling of a problem. It fed fine and shot great. I had no problems with the charging handle not chambering rounds all day. I am 99% sure the problems were due to the full 30 round mag being loaded fully. I started with 10 rounds in the mag, then increased it to 20, then 25, all with no problems whatsoever.
Thanks to everyone who offered some good advice to help me out.
I got my AR out in the woods today and shot about 200 rounds without and inkling of a problem. It fed fine and shot great. I had no problems with the charging handle not chambering rounds all day. I am 99% sure the problems were due to the full 30 round mag being loaded fully. I started with 10 rounds in the mag, then increased it to 20, then 25, all with no problems whatsoever.
Thanks to everyone who offered some good advice to help me out.
In my experience with more than a dozen ARs some factory and some I built from quality parts, if an AR is picky about known good mags like real USGI, PMAG, FUSIL, late model Tango ARC, Troy and others it is a problem with the gun. Not one of the guns I have built/purchased has had any mag related problems nor should they.
I suggest you call Spikes and insist on sending the gun back to them on their nickle. They have good customer service by all accounts.
RE feed ramps: the feed ramps are only on the upper/barrel extension and have nothing to do with the lower.
You seem to be having a "bolt over base" malfunction and it may be related to something out of spec. most likely the lower.
I suggest you call Spikes and insist on sending the gun back to them on their nickle. They have good customer service by all accounts.
RE feed ramps: the feed ramps are only on the upper/barrel extension and have nothing to do with the lower.
You seem to be having a "bolt over base" malfunction and it may be related to something out of spec. most likely the lower.
crossrhodes
Member
What DBR said.
If it's a good mag it won't matter whose name is on it. Dito on the lower M4 cuts. nothing to do with the M4 cuts in the receiver, if the rounds dipped that low it would never feed to begin with. Correct me if I'm wrong, but M4 cuts where to enhance the feeding reliability for automatic fire because the M4 cycled faster then the A2 and would cause the rounds to slightly nose dive hence M4 ramps. If I remember correctly, the original shorty, Vietnam vintage, also had the feed ramps modified they just didn't call them M4 feed ramps but the idea was the same.
If it's a good mag it won't matter whose name is on it. Dito on the lower M4 cuts. nothing to do with the M4 cuts in the receiver, if the rounds dipped that low it would never feed to begin with. Correct me if I'm wrong, but M4 cuts where to enhance the feeding reliability for automatic fire because the M4 cycled faster then the A2 and would cause the rounds to slightly nose dive hence M4 ramps. If I remember correctly, the original shorty, Vietnam vintage, also had the feed ramps modified they just didn't call them M4 feed ramps but the idea was the same.
Last edited:
crossrhodes:
My understanding of the adoption of the M4 cuts is similar to yours. As the gun wore and the cycle rate increased and as the mag springs weakened it was hard for the mag to keep up and the rounds tended to present low to the feed ramps. In a properly functioning AR the rounds don't touch the feed ramp extensions.
My understanding of the adoption of the M4 cuts is similar to yours. As the gun wore and the cycle rate increased and as the mag springs weakened it was hard for the mag to keep up and the rounds tended to present low to the feed ramps. In a properly functioning AR the rounds don't touch the feed ramp extensions.
I think you got some good advise about sending it back. Since you have little experience with ARs, it will at least give you some piece of mind if you let them go through it.
Personally, I've never had an AR fail because the mag was loaded to capacity. Of course, the aluminum mags tend to be hard to insert on a closed bolt when fully loaded, but I've never had that problem with P-Mags. I've also had failures to completely chamber with mags that were tight when fully loaded and I rode the charging handle.
The next time you take the rifle out, I'd load the mags up all the way and see what happens. If it messes up, I'd send it back to be sure. What you described sounds to me like the mag may be sitting a hair too low in the lower. When there is a lot of spring tension on the top round, the bolt is riding over it, rather than peeling it all the way off the lips.
The next time you take it out, load the mags all the way up and try shooting the rifle while putting upward pressure on the mag and see if that little bit makes a difference. If it does, it may be something as simple as a defective mag catch.
Personally, I've never had an AR fail because the mag was loaded to capacity. Of course, the aluminum mags tend to be hard to insert on a closed bolt when fully loaded, but I've never had that problem with P-Mags. I've also had failures to completely chamber with mags that were tight when fully loaded and I rode the charging handle.
The next time you take the rifle out, I'd load the mags up all the way and see what happens. If it messes up, I'd send it back to be sure. What you described sounds to me like the mag may be sitting a hair too low in the lower. When there is a lot of spring tension on the top round, the bolt is riding over it, rather than peeling it all the way off the lips.
The next time you take it out, load the mags all the way up and try shooting the rifle while putting upward pressure on the mag and see if that little bit makes a difference. If it does, it may be something as simple as a defective mag catch.
I got my AR out in the woods today and shot about 200 rounds without and inkling of a problem. It fed fine and shot great. I had no problems with the charging handle not chambering rounds all day. I am 99% sure the problems were due to the full 30 round mag being loaded fully. I started with 10 rounds in the mag, then increased it to 20, then 25, all with no problems whatsoever.
Thought perhaps that was the problem, I've seen this occur in other guns including auto pistols sometimes when new they wont accept full capacity until broken in. When I served in the military we were told never load more then 18 in a 20 mag. Now of course many continued to load 20 and "most" of the time it worked.
We tend to over think things in todays world, nothing purchased now is polished basically what we buy is a combination of parts thrown together and needs time to break in.
Add more mags to your supply all have various spring tensions. As you shoot she will smooth up, you purchased a good rifle...
dprice3844444
member
tony,i built my first 2 ar's years ago.both had problems.it was from weak extractor springs.since then,i check every ar bolt for the lil black thingy and the donut.if either is not there,i upgrade it.alleviates problems/frustrations for a 5 buck fix.
crossrhodes
Member
Dito dbr
Thank you.
Thank you.
crossrhodes
Member
wingman
I agree with you on the "over think" comment. Today we get a lot of MIM parts that just aren't as good as machined parts and almost always need major fitting or "break in". I remember years back hearing people talk about once their $1200 1911 breaks in it will be fine. I pay that much it better not need a "break in" It seems that's starting with the AR crowd now. I have been pretty disappointed with some of the 1911 after market parts lately and the quality of MIM parts, now the norm, and machined parts are now considered "custom made". Going off topic. Sorry about that.
I agree with you on the "over think" comment. Today we get a lot of MIM parts that just aren't as good as machined parts and almost always need major fitting or "break in". I remember years back hearing people talk about once their $1200 1911 breaks in it will be fine. I pay that much it better not need a "break in" It seems that's starting with the AR crowd now. I have been pretty disappointed with some of the 1911 after market parts lately and the quality of MIM parts, now the norm, and machined parts are now considered "custom made". Going off topic. Sorry about that.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Dito on the lower M4 cuts. nothing to do with the M4 cuts in the receiver, if the rounds dipped that low it would never feed to begin with.
As DBR corrected me earlier, the M4 cuts are actually in the upper receiver not the lower. In any case, if you have the M4 feed ramps in your receiver, you need an M4 barrel extension as well or you'll get feed problems. The link in my earlier post shows the problem.
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