Truly American ?

[two gun charlie]

Friend of mine recently said that he is planning to buy a springfield pistol
because he (like most of us) likes "American" guns ......
so I took out my old savage .22/410 dating from the 70's handed it to him and said "That is an American rifle" made by a real American in America using mostly American tools , quality control was done by an American.

"What you are planning to buy is an American design , built by a Mexican working in Brazil with tools imported from China and a factory Manager who is from Peru , quality control is handled by a guy from Guatemala and certain parts are probably bought from some little factory run by Taiwanese in a backwater African state ..."

So I suggested that he rather buy a Ruger because as far as I know , Ruger is still a "Genuine American" product.
Then I started wondering is Ruger still the real deal ? and are there any other arms companies that can claim to be All American ?

 

[Blue Brick]

Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc. is one of the nation's leading manufacturers of rugged, reliable firearms for the commercial sporting market. The only full-line manufacturer of American-made firearms, Ruger offers consumers over 400 variations of more than 30 product lines.

Hi-Point firearms are 100% American-made from top to bottom and are very affordable.

S&W Proudly Made In The USA Since 1852

Colt says just

American Made

 

[Life During Wartime]

"Henry rifles will be made in America, or they will not be made at all"

 

[ku4hx]

Just a few random thoughts:

For stainless steels - Chromium is mined as chromite (FeCr2O4) ore. About 2/5ths of the chromite ores and concentrates in the world are fashioned in South Africa, while Kazakhstan, India, Russia, and Turkey are also sizeable producers. Unexploited chromite deposits are plentiful, but geographically resolute in Kazakhstan and southern Africa.

For brass casings - The largest mining companies are Codelco and Minera Escondida of Chile (of which 57.5% is owned by BHP of Australia), and Phelps Dodge in the United States, followed by RTZ, Asarco, Freeport, ZCCM, Cyprus, and MIM.

Popular powders are made in Australia, Canada, and Finland.

Your gun may be "made in America", but the chances are extremely slim that component parts to build, and use, those guns were obtained only in America. That's especially true since raw materials are obtained on a bid basis and we all know how we crave to "score" a good low price on a gun. That goes for the constituent part of primers and the powder too.

The term "Global Economy" has great relevance even in the gun world.

 

[beatledog7]

+1 to ku4hx's post.

So the gun is stamped "made in USA." What does that get you when a couple of baddies break into your house or accost you in a parking lot? I'm not saying "US-made" products are not good products--they are, assuming you can actually find a pure US-made product. I'm only saying the country of origin stamp on any manufactured product is less than a guarantee that it has no "other countries" content.

Even the foods making up the breakfast I just ate have non-US links in their production and distribution.

 

[hAkron]

How about a Dan Wesson or an Ithica 1911?

 

[Sam1911]

"What you are planning to buy is an American design , built by a Mexican working in Brazil with tools imported from China and a factory Manager who is from Peru , quality control is handled by a guy from Guatemala and certain parts are probably bought from some little factory run by Taiwanese in a backwater African state ..."

All of which would mean you're probably getting a gun made at the best balance of high quality an low cost. That's kind of nice. Especially as many of us like to go on and on about how this kind of gun or that kind isn't "worth" more than ... whatever we think we should pay for it.

So I suggested that he rather buy a Ruger because as far as I know , Ruger is still a "Genuine American" product.
Then I started wondering is Ruger still the real deal ? and are there any other arms companies that can claim to be All American ?

If you're shooting at a level where the make and model of gun doesn't make any difference to your performance, then sure why not buy a gun because of where it's made. Or what it looks like. Or if it smells nice.

I don't shoot with many folks who would be just as happy with (for example) a Ruger autopistol as they are with their Austrian or Croatian or Czech models. To them the features and performance of a specific gun are worth everything and country of origin just doesn't register on their list of concerns.

 

[two gun charlie]

I am not arguing with you there Sam , but there is just something about certain american rifles and handguns.
No other shotgun I have ever had in my hands feels quite like the shotguns made by Winchester
And few handguns has the magic of a Colt pistol and I could go on
but that is beside the point .

I feel that if you say you are an American arms manufacturer your gun better be well made in America cause if I wanted an overpriced gun made in Mexico or anywhere else for that matter then I would have bought from Jose's Armory or Fidell's Firearms.

Because that is what it comes down to where I live , you can buy a cheap Chinese or Japanese gun or you can go middle of the road and buy slightly more expensive European guns or you go the whole hog and buy a decent American made gun , but you don't want to go the whole hog and find out they are actually slipping in some cheap parts or they used some second rate cheap laborer to put it all together.

 

[Sam1911]

there is just something about certain american rifles and handguns.
No other shotgun I have ever had in my hands feels quite like the shotguns made by Winchester
And few handguns has the magic of a Colt pistol and I could go on
but that is beside the point .

Oh, no argument there at all! When an American-made gun IS the pinnacle of the art, that's fantastic.

 

[ku4hx]

To name a few, I own guns made in America, Belgium, Austria, Spain, Italy and Croatia. Fact is I never even thought about a gun made in Croatia of all places. Then my wife walks in with a Springfield Armory XD(M) 45 3.8. Springfield Armory ... they were making U.S. military arms starting in 1777. How American can you get? Yeah I know, SA of today is not the original.

For decades I've used components made in other countries as stated earlier. Just recently I started using Russian primers. I've been shooting Russian ammunition for years. My most favorite Garand food (when I can get it) is Turkish HXP.

I'm all in favor of keeping jobs in the USA and supporting USA products. But if you're not careful how you define "American", you could be limiting yourself to rocks, leather sling shots and spears cut from Hickory or some such native American tree.

 

[joecil]

Like Harley Davidson Motor cycles are made in America, well technically it is but really just assembled here. Brakes made in Japan, other parts made in Germany, Canada etc. It is about the same thing with Honda Motorcycles as they too are made in America meaning assembled here. There if few items made that are truly 100% American made any more as most parts and such are produced in other locations. If it has a Mim part then thank Taurus out of Brazil since they hold most of the patents on the methods for making them.

 

[Drail]

"Made in U.S.A. used to actually mean something. It doesn't anymore. I still get a huge kick out of hearing the Harley fanboys bloviate about how "I won't ride no metric bike!" Guess what, you are anyway.

 

[burrhead]

My favorite hunting rifle is a Browning X-Bolt in .308. It's light, handles superbly and shoots one hole five shot groups at 100 yards. It's made in Japan, as have my last three pickup trucks. As soon as my holster arrives, my EDC (a Colt) will be switched to a XDs. Made in Croatia.

I just go with the best products for my needs that I can find and afford.

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

I remember years ago when my Dad ragged on me about driving a German-made Volkswagen. Claimed he would only buy "American-made" vehicles. I asked what that maple leaf sticker on the door pillar of his Chevy pickup meant.

 

[hentown]

IF I can buy American that's not union-made, then I'll buy American.

I sure hope Henry isn't unionized, because I sure do like my new Henry .22.

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

IF I can buy American that's not union-made, then I'll buy American.

I sure hope Henry isn't unionized, because I sure do like my new Henry .22.

While I can somewhat appreciate your sentiment, it's not really fair to all American workers. Not all states have "right to work" laws. If a company is a closed shop, the workers have to join the union - like it or not. They're still American workers and the company (depending on the make-up of the majority of the stockholders) is still American. (Then, again, they might just be assembling parts which are made in Taiwan or Viet Nam or who-knows-where.)

 

[Flashcube]

Until they decide to make them in Israel again, anyway.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

I have guns made in Australia, Brazil, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Germany, Russia, Sweden, the UK, the USA, and Yugoslavia. I have cars made in Japan, the UK, and the USA. The computer I'm typing this on was made in China.

The days of autarky are long gone, if they ever truly existed at all, and we're the better for it. Globalization has its pains, but at the same time our standard of living is higher than it ever was. TAANSTAFL.

 

[Eldraque]

The springfield xd isnt American at all, not even by design, its a clone of a pistol called HS2000

But who cares where its from? America is about diversity, freedom, and progress. I welcome any product that functions well enough, and is priced right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[Fishslayer]

"Made in U.S.A. used to actually mean something. It doesn't anymore. I still get a huge kick out of hearing the Harley fanboys bloviate about how "I won't ride no metric bike!" Guess what, you are anyway.

If they've ever disassembled their Evos beyond removing the gas cap(s) they'd be pretty disappointed.

 

[two gun charlie]

Well call me old fashioned but I still prefer older genuine American made guns over the modern stuff and I will continue supporting companies like Ruger who keep it real.

 

[carbonyl]

This claims to be fully made in the US....but I have my doubts about the string.

 

[thomis]

I have made in USA guns, the only one that isn't now is made in Canada (a Savage .22 bolt gun).
It does instill a sense of pride in me. It does. I really wanted a 1911. Didn't have the money for years (marriage, kids, etc...) but didn't spoil it for myself by buying a foreign knockoff, I waited until the funds presented themselves to get a Colt. It means that much to me. That's why I won't buy a Springfield XD .40, which may very well be a great, reliable pistol. Good for it.
Now here is what I have a problem with; this kind of thing: A RUGER spring air rifle, Airhawk, I think they call them.. made in China. I caught on to this memorabilia thing being outsourced years ago so before I bought the Ruger air rifle, I called Ruger and asked them. They wouldn't even answer me. They said they don't make them. I had to get the info from a retailer (Pyramid Air) and then I learned it was made in China. Bill Ruger would roll over in his grave, I believe, if he saw his name was stamped on chinese steel.

 

[Sam1911]

It does instill a sense of pride in me. It does.

Pride? In an object? An object that might or might not be the best it can be just because it was made on a spot of ground over here, rather than a spot of ground over there? By some bloke I don't know who lives here rather than some bloke I don't know who lives there?

I could see a touch of pride if my gun proved to be superior than others of a similar design, but just because its materials were harvested from such and such a place, and refined in some place, and formed and finished and assembled somewhere? So what? That doesn't make it the best gun -- or even a GOOD gun. Just gives some ephemeral kick of hollow pleasure due to a substantive irrelevancy that's beyond your influence or control.

Be proud of your skills and your accomplishments. That means something because you earned it, your effort mattered.

I like guns that were made from materials which came from our solar system, but that's tricky because you really can't say which star those heavier elements were created in. Imagine my disappointment when I discovered that some of the iron in my xD was created in the nucleosynthesis reactions of Proxima Centarui instead of Sol! I wanted my money back, let me tell you!

Taking such a long view, it does become hard to get worked up over which descendants of which people who migrated across which landmass during what centuries put my gun together in the year 2,000-something. Or within which of the ever-shifting political boundary lines in the sand that took place.

So, failing that, I'll continue to be a lot more warm-and-fuzzy over how well I can use a tool than where it was made.

 

[twofifty]

Thank you Sam. Certainly, things and achievement are two different things.

The good points you've made should not however detract from the real-life reality that hundreds of thousands of American factory jobs have been lost in the last 30 years. Many of these skilled jobs allowed American families to live comfortable safe and respectable lives.

Could it be that pride in those skilled jobs is what 'Made In America' boosters are seeking to relive when they speak of pride in American things? Many people long for those good old days, before capitalism went feral/global on us.