Truly American ?

[Sam1911]

The good points you've made should not however detract from the real-life reality that hundreds of thousands of American factory jobs have been lost in the last 30 years. Many of these skilled jobs allowed American families to live comfortable safe and respectable lives.

Surely! That is sad, though there's an awful, terrible, enormous, lot of humanity out there who doesn't live in safety, or comfort, or much in the way of respectability, compared to us Americans, and yet they seem to be able to do just as much work of just as high quality, given the chance. And seem quite willing to do so. As much as I love a soft quality of life, there does seem to be a rather clear artificiality to it, if our products are of no better quality even though they cost so much more.

I don't think there's anything inherently WRONG with the American worker, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the Croatian, Mexican, or Chinese worker, either. Just as, so long as they are analyzed to meet equivalent standards, there's nothing at all inferior about Chinese steel vs. American steel. It's all just elements, molecules, and levels of impurity.

It is the pride in those skilled jobs that 'Made In America' boosters are seeking to relive when they speak of pride in American things.

Again though, pride in what? Show me that the product is superior. Otherwise, you're kind of lying to me that I should take pride in something if it has no absolute value superiority over competing products.

 

[Mike J]

I had to get the info from a retailer (Pyramid Air) and then I learned it was made in China. Bill Ruger would roll over in his grave, I believe, if he saw his name was stamped on chinese steel.

I don't know if he would care. I bought a .40 caliber P94 back in early 2000. It came in a plastic blow molded case with a little brass looking padlock that had the ruger logo made into the side of it. IIRC the lock was made in China. I believe that was before Bill Ruger died.

Interestingly enough there is thread running on rugerforum.com right now that was started by a member that realized the padlock & gun case that came with his SR1911 were made in China. Some folks are upset that they use Mecgar mags that are made in Italy for some of the SR series pistols (the 1911 mags are made in USA by Checkmate).

 

[ku4hx]

Ruger OEM Magazines

The pics are obviously poor quality, but they're of Ruger OEM Magazines and easily verifiable. We have a total of 15; some came with the SR9 and SR9c and some were bought at http://shopruger.com/. They all have the same stamping near the bottom: "Made In Italy".

I'm guessing they're made by Mec-Gar but I don't really know that for certain sure.

 

[HKGuns]

Personally I like to stick strictly with materials originating from the Andromeda Galaxy. The stuff from the Milky Way is just so cheap.

 

[9mmfan]

Here you go:

S&Ws, Colt & Rugers.
Then there's:

S&W, Springfield M1 (USA! USA!), Remington, Marlin, Mossberg, another Marlin and a Savage.

Now I will admit that my "cowboy" guns are Italian revolvers and Brazillian lever rifle and shotguns. I also have a Russian revolver and an Austrian pistol.

 

[YZ]

There is another angle to view this silly argument. Those who grandstand about buying all American all the time can do so because they have enough money. HiPoint being an exception (for its blowback 45 acp semiautos), American made firearms are expensive. Particularly the ones with a pedigree, like all Colts, most S&W, most Remingtons, many others.

So you don't want a Browning, named after an American legend, because it was made overseas? Fine. You have the luxury of many choices, because you can afford them, and because this country is the richest gun market in the world. Someone else may be no less patriotic, but forced to save for the family, or to avoid debt, and he will pay less for a Philippino or Brazil made gun. Not fair?

 

[two gun charlie]

9mmfan now that is what I call a great collection of Americana

I agree that you get great guns made all over the world , no argument there , but I still believe the best of the best was made in the USA and are still being made , I just don't want to see that getting lost just because perhaps American manufacturers want to compete against foreign companies in price thereby sacrificing quality in the process.

 

[two gun charlie]

YZ , If someone want's a cheap gun let them buy chinese made guns or where ever .
But for those of us who want well made arms and has always looked at American guns as a sure thing, it would be a sad day when cheap parts from elsewhere start finding their way into what has always been great guns.
Imagine Colt starting to use Norinco parts in their AR's to get their prices down ...hell I would be upset. Not saying that a Norinco AR is not a good AR for the money , but it will be like using Nissan parts in a Mercedes , it's a sin I tell you

 

[Sam1911]

But for those of us who want well made arms and has always looked at American guns as a sure thing,

Unfortunately, the days of looking at "American-made" anything as a "sure thing" quality-wise are long gone, if they ever existed.

Heck, these days you can't even look at Swiss, German, or Japanese stuff and say that!

No such thing as a sure thing. Each individual example has to be evaluated solely on its merits. Sometimes American made products are superior. Sometimes they are not. Don't put your faith in anything you can't inspect, evaluate, critique, and/or control.

 

[YZ]

YZ , If someone want's a cheap gun let them buy chinese made guns or where ever .
But for those of us who want well made arms and has always looked at American guns as a sure thing, it would be a sad day when cheap parts from elsewhere start finding their way into what has always been great guns.
Imagine Colt starting to use Norinco parts in their AR's to get their prices down ...hell I would be upset. Not saying that a Norinco AR is not a good AR for the money , but it will be like using Nissan parts in a Mercedes , it's a sin I tell you

I traded my Mercedes for a Nissan truck last year. Have we met?

 

[mljdeckard]

I'm very much with Sam in #7.

I don't think I have anything to prove with commitment to this nation or my appropriate degree of patriotism. I like guns that work, and guns that are cost-effective. Going down my list a bit here,

Kimber is all USA made.
My Para-Ordnance SF-45A is all USA made. (And a bit problematic.)
My wife's XD-9 is Croatian.
My Remington 700s are American.
My S&W (Howa) 1500 is probably imported.
My milsurps came from their respective countries. (My SKS is imported from Yugoslavia.) My .22s are Ruger, Colt, and Ciener.
My '97 16 ga is American
My 870 is American

I have never once gone out of my way to buy American guns. I have never seen any distinct advantage or better quality in American guns. Foreign gunmakers will make them to whatever spec we tell them to. A gun is not magically endowed with anything because it was made in America.

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

I operate a re-education and rehabilitation center for surplus Warsaw Pact pistols.

 

[Blue Brick]

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=168454

 

[HKGuns]

It is a world economy like it or not. Transportation and communications technologies have made it far easier for global businesses to operate as global businesses. Growth in China is a must for some industries survival and you will eventually see Chinese imports from many more Companies than you do today. -Why? Because global competition forces Companies not to duplicate production and/or resources where the demand doesn't warrant. If I can build all I can sell globally in China why would I duplicate everything somewhere else raising my costs to the point where I am under utilizing assets (losing money) and making myself uncompetitive. Business is mostly about matching capacity with demand and managing inventory. Duplication of effort across the entire value chain will put a company out of business very quickly.

Cost - Growth - Diversification - Disaster preparations - politics and Government policies, regulation and taxes (local and foreign) all factor into the equation when doing business globally. It is NOT just about jobs, it is about running a successful business and balancing, as best you can, all of the demands of running a successful global business.

If you don't think that unfortunate Tsunami in Japan a couple years back didn't teach businesses any lessons you're fooling yourselves. The Japanese sure learned a lot about how susceptible they are to Natural disasters on that little Island.

Edited to add: Don't take this to mean I support giving up our Constitution in favor of Global politics.

Here is a great example: Is this made in the USA or Germany? -I could argue quite effectively both ways.

Be careful, if you answer USA made you have just relegated the US workforce to third world status, capable of nothing more than working a production line for German engineers and purchasing agents.

 

[jim243]

Well my favorite 45 ACP is 100% American, no doubt about it. Assembled in Argentina with 50 % Brazilian parts, no cheap Chinese's parts and labor in it.

It is 100 % American, South American that is.

So unless you are a racist, bigot or an ultra nationalist (terrorist), I would be careful on what you call American. Personally I think the Czech Republic makes one heck of a ton of good pistols (CZ 75's), and based on the popularity of the XD's Croatia is doing a good job as well, and lest we forget where all those Glocks are made.

Yes i would like to see more done in the USA, but then we would have to get rid of the Unions, OSHA, the EPA and a bunch of stupid laws that restrict manufacturing in your neighborhood as well as idiot tax laws that penalize anyone in the firearms industry. (since when does uncle sam need to be paid off a bribe each time a gun is made?)

Jim

 

[KYamateur]

I'm with the OP. I try and buy American guns and ammo whenever I can even if they cost a little more. We may not own the mines where the metals come from but at least the guns are being machined and assembled here by American workers. Our government has outsourced our country to the max, but I will continue to support working Americans who are working to put food on their tables. I was born and raised on a farm and it makes me sick to see how much beef and tobacco our country imports all without tariffs.

I don't care if companies are owned offshore as long as they are making their products in the USA and putting people to work (ex. Toyota, Hyundai). Everyone is free to choose and buy as they please but for me I will buy American.

 

[jim243]

I will buy American.

Which American? North American, Central American or South American? Or all of the above?

Read the labels on your shoes, on your underwear, on your shirts, on your pants, on your bedding, on your tools, on your TV, on your phone, on just about anything you have purchased in the last 10 years. NO you are not buying American, and stop lying to yourself and us. It would be nice if you where, but you aren't.

Jim

 

[KYamateur]

I buy American when I can. I pay extra for shoes made in the USA. I buy my t-shirts from American Apparel, I buy food from the local farmers market, and I could go on. No I can't buy everything made in the USA, but I sure as heck try and buy as much as I can. One of our State Legislators will show you the labels on his clothes, all made in the USA. I don't have his budget, but I at least buy New Balance sneakers, and boots and dress shoes made in the USA. Every gun holster I own is made in the USA from small shops. You can get good quality leather made the way you want it just as cheap as all the stuff on the shelves if you just look around. My truck was made in the USA, I bought every material possible when building my home from US manufacturers. I can't attest to every product, but I know without a doubt that the drywall and flooring made here is hands down better than the stuff coming from China.

I agree that it isn't easy, but if you look around you can buy many products made right here in the United States.

 

[RussellC]

The springfield xd isnt American at all, not even by design, its a clone of a pistol called HS2000

But who cares where its from? America is about diversity, freedom, and progress. I welcome any product that functions well enough, and is priced right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

That, and the fact its made in Croatia...

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

While I didnt notice it until after I bought it, my new gen 3 Glock 17 was "Made in USA" in Symerna, GA.

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

Well my favorite 45 ACP is 100% American, no doubt about it. Assembled in Argentina with 50 % Brazilian parts, no cheap Chinese's parts and labor in it.

It is 100 % American, South American that is.

So unless you are a racist, bigot or an ultra nationalist (terrorist), I would be careful on what you call American. Personally I think the Czech Republic makes one heck of a ton of good pistols (CZ 75's), and based on the popularity of the XD's Croatia is doing a good job as well, and lest we forget where all those Glocks are made.

Yes i would like to see more done in the USA, but then we would have to get rid of the Unions, OSHA, the EPA and a bunch of stupid laws that restrict manufacturing in your neighborhood as well as idiot tax laws that penalize anyone in the firearms industry. (since when does uncle sam need to be paid off a bribe each time a gun is made?)

Jim

Not all of the Glocks, mine was made in USA, Symerna, Georgia

Russellc

 

[Hanzo581]

I may get flamed for this but I don't care where an item is built, if it is the best that suits my needs and wallet I will buy it.

 

[Speedo66]

I think it's ironic, but there have been many complaints about the new Remingtons and Marlins being garbage. Are they made in the US?

Sometimes things that were made elsewhere then made in the US aren't as good, i.e., Walther PPK.

A good product is a good product, origin is not necessarily a criteria for goodness.

For what it's worth, I recently bought an SOG pocket knife. Their site says "assembled in US", but the box says made in Taiwan.

 

[ricebasher302]

I hate outsourcing most of all.

I hate the politics that create the conditions and/or the corporate greed that drive it.

I own foreign made guns that are marketed in the USA, and I own USA made guns as well.

I try to avoid outsourced products as much as I can.

I stand for what the USA used to be and needs to be again.

I never feel bad for rooting for the home team.

 

[KYamateur]

I think it's ironic, but there have been many complaints about the new Remingtons and Marlins being garbage. Are they made in the US?

Sometimes things that were made elsewhere then made in the US aren't as good, i.e., Walther PPK.

A good product is a good product, origin is not necessarily a criteria for goodness.

For what it's worth, I recently bought an SOG pocket knife. Their site says "assembled in US", but the box says made in Taiwan.

I've heard bad things about Remington and Marlin on the internet but I have purchased a lever action 357 and 45-70 in the last year and they both work fine and look good. I've read tons of garbage about not buying a new Marlin that doesn't have JM (i think) on the barrel, but in my own experience I don't see the quality drop. I have seen some Remington rifles with some pretty shoddy finishes, but their R1s are finished extremely well. I'm not sure what is going on there. Cerbus Capital Management bought up all of the companies under the name freedom group. I think quality differs among the brands. I guess it just depends on the factory and the workers because I know they moved alot of facilities around. A gunsmith told me that Marlin had some initial problems because they moved the equipment to another state and laid off employees that didn't move, but that they have straightened the problems out now.