Trying some 230gr jacketed bullets

[vaalpens]

Since I started reloading 45acp, it has been mostly the 200gr Berry's RS variety. I loaded a few RMR 230gr RN plated bullets (PIF from Dudedog), but no load development.

With last month's 10% discount from RMR, I decided to give the RMR 230gr FMJRN bullets a try. Today I received them in the mail, and now the fun starts.

I have been planning my loads since I ordered the bullets, but now it is time to make a decision regrading where to start. The 200gr loads I developed gave me some indication what to expect, but it is basically starting over again.

First the bullets. The bullet length is around .656", with the diameter at .45". I normally measure what my COL on the low end could be, and then just pick something that gives me enough breathing room with the different brass length. Based on my calculation is seems a good starting COL will be 1.220", which gives me about the same seating depth I calculated with the RMR 230gr RN plated bullet.

I loaded up a couple dummy rounds at 1.220" COL and verified that they will fit in the SIG P220 magazine and cycle through the gun. After cycling them through 5 times, no setback was seen. This COL seems like a good fit and is probably what I would start with.

Picking starting loads will be a bit challenging since load data can be all over the place for 45acp. Following are some loads I collected from different sources to give me some idea where to start:


Normally I have some parameters that help me guide my decision. The RMR 230gr plated bullet I loaded was loaded with 5.0gr HP-38. The loads I like best at the moment with the 200gr bullet are loaded using SportPistol and BE-86. It seems that the standard loads for 230gr bullets are 5.0gr of Bullseye and 6.0gr of Unique.

I normally start with at least 2 or 3 different powders and like to use on fast powder (700X or Bullseye), one medium fast powder (HP38 or Sport Pistol), one medium powder (Unique or BE-86), and maybe a medium slow to slow powder (Power Pistol, CFE Pistol or Longshot). I know the speeds I have listed is probably not accurate, but are normally how I group them. CFE Pistol is normally the wildcard since it always act the same in relationship to PowerPistol.

For now I am leaning towards starting with Bullseye, SportPistol and Unique. I can still swap replace Unique with BE-86, but will probably load up BE-86 in the next round.

The starting loads will probably based on the Nosler range for Bullseye and Unique, and Alliant data for SportPistol.

Let me know if you have any experience with specifically the RMR 230gr FMJRN bullet, especially what COL you settled on and any specific load you might recommend.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm not sure how you come up with your OAL numbers. I usually load the bullet as long as possible within SAAMI specs and still have a clean plunk test. I usually load a 230gr ball round to 1.255" for my 1911 and that works well for me.

I would start with 5.0gr HP-38/W231 and work up to 5.5gr HP-38. The 5.5gr load with an OAL of 1.255" has been very accurate for me with any 230gr bullet in a 1911. It might work well for you too.

 

[Slamfire]

Based on my experience, use your hardball loads for plated bullets. My 230 FMJ load in the 45 ACP is 5.0 grains of Bullseye. This is a load that was used in the original 1910 development loads, it pushed a 230 FMJ at 800 fps. This was the baseline load for decades in this pistol, and I have no doubt it will work well with 230 plated and 230 FMJ

 

[Charlie98]

With Unique, I would start at 6.0grn and work up to a maximum of 6.5grn with any 230grn bullet (cast, plated, FMJ, any brand, any flavor...) LIke Arch, I seat mine out as far as I can. I have been loading 6.5grn Unique under a 230grn bullet for as long as I have been reloading. Typical velocities I get are 900fps out of a 5", 830fps from a 4".

That is not to say there isn't a better powder... I've used W231 and WST (I prefer them with 185-200grn bullets vs Unique.) I have a curiosity for BE86, so I'll prolly pick up a pound to try with the .45. Since I picked up an alloy frame Kimber, I've gone to loading more 200grn plated bullets for that vs the 230grn.

 

[Walkalong]

Based on my experience, use your hardball loads for plated bullets.

In .45 ACP, as long as you are not pushing it (900 FPS from a 5" barrel ), I totally agree.

Everyone's plinker loads and target loads with jacketed will work just fine with plated in .45 ACP.

Even the max loads may be fine, but I am not going to make that blanket statement.

 

[Catpop]

Just remember it’s the journey that’s the most fun and not end result!
Forget the expensive jacketed and plated commercial bullets, go with range scrap lead boolits and let the true journey begin!
Good luck!

 

[Charlie98]

Even the max loads may be fine, but I am not going to make that blanket statement.

Just like with 9mm, seating depth is key...

 

[Walkalong]

Just not nearly as critical with the big case and lower operating pressures.

Back when I was shooting the Hornady 200 Gr jacketed SWC and the Ranier 200 Gr SWC using the same powder charge there was not enough difference in FPS to worry about. That was in the 750/825ish range, so not real light but not hot.

Same for 9MM and 115 Gr jacketed RN vs plated 115 Gr RN, at near max loads the differences in FPS wasn't enough to be statistically relevant.

That doesn't mean one can just substitute plated for jacketed, one can't, as shown by some of the plated data that is available now, it just means with the bullets I had, and the powders I used, at the velocity level I was at, I didn't see much difference.

 

[vaalpens]

I'm not sure how you come up with your OAL numbers. I usually load the bullet as long as possible within SAAMI specs and still have a clean plunk test. I usually load a 230gr ball round to 1.255" for my 1911 and that works well for me.

I would start with 5.0gr HP-38/W231 and work up to 5.5gr HP-38. The 5.5gr load with an OAL of 1.255" has been very accurate for me with any 230gr bullet in a 1911. It might work well for you too.

I normally just calculate the shortest COL I can get away with based on the ogive shape and seating depth. I will then play around with the COL until I find one that I am comfortable with based on published COL's and my experience, and then finalize my starting COL.After testing I will make adjustments to the COL if I experience any feeding issues, but would hardly adjust it just to try and find better accuracy.

Thanks for confirming the powder range for HP-38. The 5.0gr load is the only one I have tested so far with a 230gr bullet.

 

[vaalpens]

Based on my experience, use your hardball loads for plated bullets. My 230 FMJ load in the 45 ACP is 5.0 grains of Bullseye. This is a load that was used in the original 1910 development loads, it pushed a 230 FMJ at 800 fps. This was the baseline load for decades in this pistol, and I have no doubt it will work well with 230 plated and 230 FMJ

Thanks for the information. With Bullseye my target was always to include the 5.0gr load in my test range. The question for me is just if it will be in the middle of my test range, or toward the end. With your 5.0gr load, what is the bullet length and COL?

 

[Walkalong]

Back in the day 5.0 Grs of 231 was a pretty common charge, as we all found out when we discovered the internet. 5.0 for plinking and 5.5 for full power, although some people like 5.2 or 5.3.

These days that is over some data. And of course the short blunt FMJ that have to be loaded shorter than the old 1.260/1.265 OAL make a difference as well.

 

[vaalpens]

With Unique, I would start at 6.0grn and work up to a maximum of 6.5grn with any 230grn bullet (cast, plated, FMJ, any brand, any flavor...) LIke Arch, I seat mine out as far as I can. I have been loading 6.5grn Unique under a 230grn bullet for as long as I have been reloading. Typical velocities I get are 900fps out of a 5", 830fps from a 4".

That is not to say there isn't a better powder... I've used W231 and WST (I prefer them with 185-200grn bullets vs Unique.) I have a curiosity for BE86, so I'll prolly pick up a pound to try with the .45. Since I picked up an alloy frame Kimber, I've gone to loading more 200grn plated bullets for that vs the 230grn.

Thanks for the information. The 6.0gr Uniue load will be in my test range for Unique. I will probably not start with 6.0gr, but will bracket it with a few loads just to make sure I don't miss the sweet spot. BE-86 works well for me with a 200gr bullet and I will definitely work up some loads using BE-86. With your 6.0gr load, what is the bullet length and COL?

 

[rg1]

My 230 gr. FMJ-RN loads for various 45 ACP pistols and carbine rifle are seated to 1.250" except for Winchester 230 fmj's get seated to 1.260" as they have a more pointed longer tapered nose. All Unique loads using various cases and CCI and Rem LP primers. A good moderate load uses 5.9-6.0 grains. My favorite is 6.3 grains of Unique. At 6.5 grains it's getting very warm and I don't recommend going higher than 6.5 with any 230 gr. bullet especially using mixed brand brass. Rem 2 1/2's are a little hotter than CCI 300's. Start around 5.9 grains and work up.

 

[vaalpens]

In .45 ACP, as long as you are not pushing it (900 FPS from a 5" barrel ), I totally agree.

Everyone's plinker loads and target loads with jacketed will work just fine with plated in .45 ACP.

Even the max loads may be fine, but I am not going to make that blanket statement.

Thanks for the comments. I like plated bullets in 45acp, but with the 10% discount at RMR, these jacketed bullets came out to close the cost of what I pay for plated bullets. This is the reason for buying these jacketed bullets. It will provide me with a range of data points for future development. Since these are jacketed bullets, my plan is to definitely work up a load using Longshot also.

 

[Slamfire]

Thanks for the information. With Bullseye my target was always to include the 5.0gr load in my test range. The question for me is just if it will be in the middle of my test range, or toward the end. With your 5.0gr load, what is the bullet length and COL?

This is my data:

Kimber Custom Classic M1911

230 gr LRN 4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed Brass WLP OAL 1.250" taper crimp .469"
21-Jun-06 T = 97 °F

Ave Vel = 805.
Std Dev =11.4
ES=54.08
High=836.9
Low=782.8
N =32

Try to find another powder that gives as tight standard deviations and extreme spreads as Bullseye. I bet there are a couple of them out there, but not much more. Bullseye gives exceptionally narrow velocities spreads, and I am of the opinion that also means, narrow pressure variations. This is all to the good as you want a consistent kick to the mechanism for function reliablity.

Among the Bullseye crowd I shoot with, Titegroup is very popular. The velocities for the same charges are close, and, these guys switched when Alliant made finding Bullseye difficult. A manufacturer who ignores the civilian side, to rake profits from Government contracts, creates the long term risk of the market moving on and not coming back.

230 gr FMJ (R-P) 5.0 grs Bullseye 99' & 2005 mixed lot Mixed Brass WLP (brass) OAL 1.265" taper crimp .469"
12-Dec-11 T= 53 °F

Ave Vel =793.5
Std Dev =18.92
ES =61.99
High = 817.4
Low =755.4
N =16

 

[vaalpens]

Just remember it’s the journey that’s the most fun and not end result!
Forget the expensive jacketed and plated commercial bullets, go with range scrap lead boolits and let the true journey begin!
Good luck!

Thanks. I definitely enjoy the journey of working up loads. The price of these jacketed bullets were about the same as what my 200gr plated bullets cost, so I decided it was a good time to experience with the 230gr jacketed bullets. Casting bullets has been on my radar, but I have not decided to start down that path yet. Hopefully it is something I can start in the next 12 months or so, assuming I'll be able to find a source of cheap lead.

 

[vaalpens]

Just like with 9mm, seating depth is key...

Correct. This is why I figure out what COL range I can use, then look at published COL's to determine what my COL will be be. Once I pick the COL I normally stick with it unless I see feeding issues.

 

[Dudedog]

I can't remember if I sent you the old Plated RMR 230s or the newer ones since they changed suppliers.
If they were the older ones those had a fairly blunt RN (needed shorter OAl) and most .45 RNs have a more "pointy" nose than they do.
With various 230s in .45 I like 4.7 (softer) or 5gr of HP38 for practice loads. (AA#2 show promise as well, need to get my hands on some Sport Pistol to try)
Since you mentioned CFE-P you might want to give it a try for Stout .45 loads (if that's what your after, BE86 would be good for this as well)
Hodgdon's numbers show it as producing the most vel with a 230 with listed charges.
I have loaded FP CFE-P and BE86 and both let the .45 be all it can be.
As always looking for forward to your results, and appreciate you taking the time to do the write ups for us all.

 

[vaalpens]

There has been a few comments about my calculated 1.220" COL and also that seating depth is key, so I decided to do a bit more dummy round testing to further refine the COL.

Based on the magazine fit since 1.275" was too long, I started with 1.270". The plunk test was fine, but the magazine fit when multiple round were loaded was not smooth with the round at an angle.
The next COL of 1.260" seemed to cycle fine and load fine into the magazine.

Since there will always be some variation in the COL when loading these rounds, the highest COL I should probably aim for will be 1.255". I did change the COL to 1.255" and loaded them up, angled the rounds in the magazine and cycled them though the P220 without any issue.

So it looks like with this bullet shape that my COL will be between 1.220" and 1.255". I am leaning towards the higher COL, but I still want to make sure I have enough wiggle room so that I don't run into any magazine feeding issues.

 

[cw308]

Im shooting a Colt New Agent , it's my carry gun but just love shooting it , I only shoot 230 gr. FMJ's don't want any feed issues , With a practice load of 4.7 of W231 with a OAL 1.255 works for me . I practice at 21' for a 3" 1911 it right on if I do my part right .

 

[vaalpens]

I can't remember if I sent you the old Plated RMR 230s or the newer ones since they changed suppliers.
If they were the older ones those had a fairly blunt RN (needed shorter OAl) and most .45 RNs have a more "pointy" nose than they do.
With various 230s in .45 I like 4.7 (softer) or 5gr of HP38 for practice loads. (AA#2 show promise as well, need to get my hands on some Sport Pistol to try)
Since you mentioned CFE-P you might want to give it a try for Stout .45 loads (if that's what your after, BE86 would be good for this as well)
Hodgdon's numbers show it as producing the most vel with a 230 with listed charges.
I have loaded FP CFE-P and BE86 and both let the .45 be all it can be.
As always looking for forward to your results, and appreciate you taking the time to do the write ups for us all.

Thanks Dudedog. The little experience I have with 45acp and the P220 has shown me that I need to verify how the rounds fit in the magazine. With the SWC's I had to really shorten the COL to make it work, and had to follow you advice with those blunt nose RMR's. These RN bullet are a bit more pointy and is closer to the contour of the P220 magazine. Testing them will obviously show how well they fit, but so far it looks like a COL between 1.220" and 1.255" should work.

Any of the AA powders has always been hard to find locally, so I basically stayed away from it.

Not many load Longshot in 45acp, but the little bit I have done seems to indicate a soft shooter at higher velocities. I definitely will revisit Longshot just to validate the felt recoil vs the other powders.

 

[vaalpens]

Im shooting a Colt New Agent , it's my carry gun but just love shooting it , I only shoot 230 gr. FMJ's don't want any feed issues , With a practice load of 4.7 of W231 with a OAL 1.255 works for me . I practice at 21' for a 3" 1911 it right on if I do my part right .

It seems there is a lot of love for the W231/HP38 load for 230gr FMJ. The plan for my initial loads was to try Bullseye, Sport Pistol and Unique, but maybe I should start with Bullseye, HP38 and Sport Pistol. This will then put SportPistol and HP38 head to head under the same conditions. Either way it is going to be fun evaluating this cartridge with 230gr FMJ loads.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Back in the day 5.0 Grs of 231 was a pretty common charge, as we all found out when we discovered the internet. 5.0 for plinking and 5.5 for full power, although some people like 5.2 or 5.3.

These days that is over some data. And of course the short blunt FMJ that have to be loaded shorter than the old 1.260/1.265 OAL make a difference as well.

I agree completely. The data in the Hodgdon site with the lower limits of W231 use a short OAL of 1.200" .

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thanks Dudedog. The little experience I have with 45acp and the P220 has shown me that I need to verify how the rounds fit in the magazine. With the SWC's I had to really shorten the COL to make it work, and had to follow you advice with those blunt nose RMR's. These RN bullet are a bit more pointy and is closer to the contour of the P220 magazine. Testing them will obviously show how well they fit, but so far it looks like a COL between 1.220" and 1.255" should work.

Any of the AA powders has always been hard to find locally, so I basically stayed away from it.

Not many load Longshot in 45acp, but the little bit I have done seems to indicate a soft shooter at higher velocities. I definitely will revisit Longshot just to validate the felt recoil vs the other powders.

You will notice the OAL of 1.255" is the same I mentioned in Post # 2.

As for AA powders, they are hard to find near me too. AA#2 makes a fine practice/range round. AA#5 is reported to have been developed around the 45 ACP. I have used it in full power loads and it was accurate and clean. IMO AA#7 and especially AA#9 are too slow for this cartridge.

Longshot is a high energy powder and the 45 ACP is a low pressure round, not usually a good pairing. Longshot is also a very loud powder too. It will work if need be but I don't care for it in that cartridge. HS-6 is usually the slowest powder I would consider but rarely. (all in my opinion of course)

 

[Charlie98]

With your 6.0gr load, what is the bullet length and COL?

I don't know about the specific bullet, but my typical OAL is 1.26"... my last batch was with both Rainer and Berry's plated 230grn FMJ profile bullets. I do recheck the seat die when I change bullets, and generally avoid the flatter nose bullets because of the differences in ogive profile.

I'm not a big fan of W231 (or WST) with the 230grn bullet, but I'm loading at max... I've found Unique far more forgiving in that respect than W231, even with slight differences in OAL. I think W231 is a good choice for the lighter bullets, though. I've currently got some 230's and 200's loaded up with RedDot and TiteGroup... just to get rid of it... both right in the same burn area as W231/HP38 and AA#2... so it works, but it's just not my favorite.