Trying to work up a load.

[Mr_Flintstone]

I'm still in the beginning stages of reloading, and I made a mistake at the store. I was at a local gun store buying some bullets, and I picked up a box from the row that had 150 gr LFP. When I got home and opened the box, I realized that I'd actually picked up 158 gr JSP.

While this won't cause a problem loading 38 spl, my intention was to load some 38 LC. There doesn't seem to be any data for jacketed bullets in 38 LC, and the data I I'd have is for lead. As I don't want to go buy another box of bullets, I started reading my Lee manual. It gives the load work up formulas as:

10% change in bullet weight causes -4% change in velocity, and 8% change in pressure.
10% change in charge weight causes 8% change in velocity and 20% change in pressure.
10% change in case volume causes -3% change in velocity and -13% change in pressure.

I started with a low 38 spl load using 158 gr FTX and 3.5 gr Titegroup @704 fps and 12400 CUP. Hornady says I can use JHP interchangeably with JSP or FMJ with the same weight.

Using the formulas, if I change the case volume -15.2% from 23.7 gr to 20.1 gr, I get 14848 CUP and 736 fps. To get back to the original pressure, I change the pressure by -16.5% resulting in a charge weight of 3.2 gr @ 686 fps at 12400 CUP.

Recalculating for the max charge, I started with 3.9 gr Titegroup @ 798 fps and 15900 CUP, and got a new max charge of 3.6 gr Titegroup @ 779 fps and 15900 CUP.

I don't have software to check these values, so I'd like some opinions from you guys. Do these seem like reasonable values? I'll be shooting them in a modern 38 Special that is +P rated.

 

[Dudedog]

Just me but I don't know think I would trust the formulas....
For example I would think +10% charge weight change on a MAX load could easily give more than a +20% change in pressure, I have no data to back this up just a gut feeling.

Also Titegroup is not considered a "forgiving" powder, not one I would choose to experiment with.

Probably a silly question but if your are shooting them in a .38 Special why not use .38 Special brass?
Lots of load data for .38 Special.

 

[thomas15]

STOP!!!

Here is an idea. Try checking out the Hodgdon website Data Center. They list a 38 Long Colt with 150g bullet and Titegroup. You could visit there and you might then get the feeling that your calculations are off some. Personally I think your overcharging and your loads are dangerous! I checked the Hodgdon 2016 Annual and it agrees with the website but it has several more loads for 38LC.

As a beginner you should not load anything without published load data. If you cannot find the data pick up the phone and call the powder company and speak to someone in the lab.

Then go to the store and buy a box of pistol bullets for 38 special. Learn the easy stuff before going on to the more complex.

Everyone makes purchasing mistakes. I wish the only mistake I made was something as inexpensive as a box of bullets. But I still have all of my guns and most of my body parts.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

STOP!!!

Here is an idea. Try checking out the Hodgdon website Data Center. They list a 38 Long Colt with 150g bullet and Titegroup. You could visit there and you might then get the feeling that your calculations are off some. Personally I think your overcharging and your loads are dangerous! I checked the Hodgdon 2016 Annual and it agrees with the website but it has several more loads for 38LC.

As a beginner you should not load anything without published load data. If you cannot find the data pick up the phone and call the powder company and speak to someone in the lab.

Then go to the store and buy a box of pistol bullets for 38 special. Learn the easy stuff before going on to the more complex.

Everyone makes purchasing mistakes. I wish the only mistake I made was something as inexpensive as a box of bullets. But I still have all of my guns and most of my body parts.

I haven't loaded any of these. Like I said in my first post, I can still use them for my 38 spl loads. Not a problem there. I just had time on my hands today, and was pondering whether or not they could be used for LC. That's why I asked here first. I plan to call Hodgdon to see if they can help me with data, but they weren't open over the weekend. I got a bunch of 125 gr LRNFP, and some copper plated RNFP that Hodgdon says uses the same data as lead. I'll continue to use those for now. I have no desire to blow myself (or anything connected to myself) up; and I'd never try to create a load. I was just wondering if the calculations were close, or way off.

 

[thomas15]

I think you will find that the JSP are better suited for high velocity as in rifle loads. Yes they will go bang in your gun but I assume that your not trying to make a hunting round for big game.

I didn't mean to overreact or imply that you are reckless in any way. Some of my shooting buddies use 38 LC and 38 SC in competition revolvers such as S&W 627s moon clipped. I have actually not paid that much attention to them when they talk about their loads. While it is never wise to get data from unknown sources I can ask and at least give you an idea. Off the top of my head I think they are using starline brass and probably WST or Clays or WSF. Certainly something a bit slower than TG. I'm sure they are using plated RN lighter than 150s but not much lighter. I have always thought of those two as competition loads for those looking to achieve faster reloads in competition as the case is shorter than 38 special but certainly not barn burners.

There really isn't anything wrong with creating a load. I've done it just one time but I started at a load that was very low and worked up. Then using a chrono I found that I was approaching a compressed load case volumes but not achieving a reasonable speed. So at that point I concluded that to continue I would need a different bullet. But then winter set in and so I have to resume sometime when I get the time.

On second thought I have created two loads. The other one actually works but it's not as accurate in my G17 as other loads I have so I don't consider it a success.